Lift block height

[Uberoo]

So today I cut out the passenger side rust hole and welded a patch panel in its place.I have some pics but my camera wont sync up with the ancient computer I am using(pentium 4 with 2 gb ram running xp...) so I can't upload pics so be patient with me I'll figure something out.

 

I also got started on the driver side strut tower drop.Inside the strut tower was a clear and defined area where a second layer of sheetmetal was spot welded to the main layer of sheetmetal that makes up the strut tower.So I thought that was as good a mark as any so I took my dremel with a cut off wheel, and cut through the 16 gauge steel at various points along the seam between the two pieces of steel.After that I followed those cut marks with a sharpie from inside the engine bay and drew a line on the strut tower.Then I measured 7" down from that line to make the second cut line.After that I used my torch and cut out the section of the strut tower that I was removing-keeping  either above or below the line so I could grind it smooth to make it 7".I did the same with the strut mounting plate for the strut tower and ground it flush with the second layer of steel.Then I set the front end of the car at ride height with stock tires and 7" of lift and bolted the driver side suspension on to mock up where to put the strut mounting plate.

 

Then I remembered that the strut is compressed a little bit at ride height.So to compress the strut I am going to remove the spring and duct tape the strut shaft at that compressed length and weld up the strut tower...Now I need to go visit someone I know with a stock brat and ask to measure the compressed length of his struts,that wont happen until monday due to working on another friend's car saturday and sunday .I dunno anyone have a stock EA81 with an engine that they could measure the compressed length of the struts?Or better yet an EJ22 with no suspension lift?  

On an EA81 the top spring perch goes like this -\_    

                     If you could measure from here ---^

         to the lower spring perch that would be great, in case thats not clear thats the bottom edge of where the top spring holder is tallest.

 

 

on the plus side I should be able to upload pics on monday because I will have access to a newer computer.

Edited March 15, 2014 by Uberoo

[Uberoo]

I was able to measure the compressed strut length at ride height so with the help of a friend I tacked it in place while he eyeballed the camber of the wheel.I set the wheel 0* camber or at least as close as I could get using an extension for my shop vac. set extension against wheel and make the bottom of the extension flat on the floor.looks straight to me .I set the strut 1/2" more compressed that it would have been with an ea81 to better approximate the EJ22.

 

Said friend helped clean up the shop and helped with a few things as needed.

 

dropping the strut tower is alot of work compared to normal strut blocks but now I will have room for a bigger brake booster/MC, as well as room for an airfilter on the passenger side for my snorkel.So I wont need to have a big unsightly paint can on the roof to house the air filter.Shame I'm making this one functionally pretty and not actually pretty..

[Uberoo]

As promised here are some pics.

 

This is the passenger side rust hole with the rust cut out.

This is with a patch panel welded in.

 

The next few pics detail the construction or deconstruction of the new lower strut tower:

 

First I took my dremel with a cut off wheel and made a few cuts through the metal where the top band of shteetmetal was on the strut tower.From those marks I made a upper cut line and measured 7" down to make a lower cut line.

 

Then I cut it out using my favorite method: torch.

Then I did the same with the strut mounting pad to get the most structually sound part of the tower to build off.

After grinding the edges smooth it was time to get the strut tower tacked/welded into place.So I removed the spring from the strut and used some ducttape to hold the strut at its compressed lenght at ride height with an engine in place.Bolted the suspension up and with the help of a friend I got it sitting roughly where I want it.

Some cutting and tacking to make everything fit nice.

some more tacking.

finally ground down the welds and sprayed some paint on it.

 

I might add a brace from the upper frame rail to the strut mounting pad,but I'll wait to see how it does on its first wheeling trip.I made the lowered strut tower out of 16 gauge steel vs the factory 18 gauge single layered stuff so I will see how it goes..

Now to work on the passenger side.

[RustyBrat]

I like this idea! Just hopefully its strong enough

[Uberoo]

So I have the passenger side strut tower cut out but I have a slight dilemma: I bought a EA81 front clip for $50 to use its suspension, while most the suspension is complete It was missing a few parts for the passenger side.With the parts I have I could possibly rig something up.I am wondering if just to mock up where the passenger strut goes if I could just put a passsenger side control arm on the complete driver side suspension and use that to mock up the suspension.Would there be any differences other than the spindle/brakes would be flipped?At this point it doesn't matter where the tie rods/brakes are on the spindle as long as the wheel is mounted up correctly and the whole strut assembly is cambered/castered correctly.

 

While I could take apart the complete driver side strut and use some parts to get it more or less correct that is alot of work including pulling the strut apart to take its spring out.I am wondering if I could just use the passenger control arm to position where the strut should go using the control arm mounts on the crossmember.Again not driving but just mocking up the suspension so I can fabricate the passenger side strut tower.

[Uberoo]

So what is the difference between 4wd and sedan markings on the top hat for the strut?Most of the time I shove the strut in place without noticing or caring if both struts have 4wd pointing toward the front or the back or a mix of the two.

[Uberoo]

I think I figured it out.The strut isnt centered on that top hat rather its offset.The 4wd side gives the most offset to give the most caster,The more positive caster,the more the car wants to go straight,so if you hit a rock or berm offroad more caster will help keep the car straight, but at the expense of increased steering effort.A FWD car presumably wont be taken offroad so their isn't a need for as much caster to keep the car straight after finding rocks because presumably there arn't as many large rocks on the road.With less caster means its easier to park because it takes less steering effort.

 

I Think anyway...probably wrong though

[monstaru]

It is most definitely strong enough. At least as strong as the welds. A few of us watched his first monstrosity bend and break.

good for him. He is moving on.

NOW, Robert. What welder is being used? I am sure it is here, but we should reiterate for my point.

If that is a stick welder you are getting better.

If it is wire feed TURN it up...

It really helps to do sheet metal welding technique of spot welding around the perimeter until it is closed.

 

 

Your catching up. Dropping all of the body mounts is like number 3 of the Subaru lift manual out of 9.

LOL

and damn.

You think to much!

GOod job! KEEP GOING. and going and going and going and going and going. lol

cheers

Edited March 26, 2014 by monstaru

[Uberoo]

I am using a Lincoln 140C 110V mig welder with 100% CO2.For the most part I set the welder at the settings for "X" metal thickness and adjust them up or down depending on how the weld is doing.

[4play]

if you can switch to 75%argon 25% co2 it welds mutch better. just my experience.

[Uberoo]

I was on Pirate4x4 and I cam across a long travel H3 build. http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/hummer/915987-h3-long-travel-build.html. After reading that I was inspired to start experimenting with the subaru IFS to see where it binds up the worst and what is killing travel.First off the radius rod bushing kills alot of travel right of the bat.It pivots on a different axis as the control arm, so it flex it gets comes from the bushing squishing-bad bad bad.. Another thing that kills suspension travel are the locations for the control arm pivots.The control arm pivots are not in line with the inner DOJ. So as the suspension cycles the axle needs to change length, so a certain amount of plunging is needed-the DOJ.Problem is towards the extremes of up or down travel the DOJ bottoms out and loads the CV joint in compression.On an EA81,any suspension lift causes the CV to be run in compression drastically shortening its life and putting extra stress on the DOJ.This is why suspension lifts on EA81 vehicles tend to eat axles,EA82 vehicles have a wider suspension so at that height there is less angle, so less compressive forces.After all of that the strut becomes the limiting factor.However,making the control arm pivot points in line with the DOJ and the radius rod pivots in line with the control arm would probally yield 5" of suspension travel without destroying even EA81 axles.Finally like most people I originally thought the CV axle limited the travel so I put a rear diff on a stack of tires and attached a front EA81 axle to it and measured its total upward/downward deflection with the CV joint kept parallel to the ground.A stock EA81 axle is capable of 14.5" of travel and it would still be able to turn even at those extremes.In the hummer build they used a GM axle that only has 10" of travel.By moving the control arm pivots inward and making sure the suspension pivoted on the same axis they got 12" of travel vs the stock 4".

 

On my build I plan to take care of or at least address the radius rod pivot and the control arms not pivoting inline with the DOJ.

[Uberoo]

if you can switch to 75%argon 25% co2 it welds mutch better. just my experience.

I know but mixed gas is so much more expensive.

[86hatchback]

Don't forget to address the steering rack if you move your pivot points, like using a dodge Intrepid rack as the inner tie rods connect in the center not the ends. Keep it coming looks wicked.

[Uberoo]

Once I get the pivot points moved toward the center I'll see what I can do about the steering.

 

Oddly enough subaru compromised heavily on wheel travel to minimize bumpsteer during the limited amount of travel it has.

[Uberoo]

Exactly how much longer are EA82 control arms vs their EA81 counterparts?I found out that with a 5 speed DR and EA81 axles roughly 19" is the span from the center of each inner DOJ. proper control arm geometry would put the control arms 18" apart.They are currently 23" which means I would have to move the control arm mounts 2.5" inward.I am wondering if I could use EA82 control arms rather than extend the EA81 control arms.I know EA82 suspension under an EA81 increases the track width by 1.5" per side but how much longer are EA82 control arms?

 

Also can I use EA81 balljoints/spindles with EA82 control arms?

[Uberoo]

So I have ran into a slight snag.I can't mock up where the suspension should go without having the transmission and its crossmember to mock things up,but I just got a new job so I should soon be able to afford to go by the engine/transmission/and various front end parts...

 

So while that part of the project got delayed I turned to the wiring harness.While the body wiring harness of a 78 brat doesn't have alot of wires there were still a few wires that could be removed.The brat originally had a carb and distributor, With the ej swap its wires are not needed so they went bye bye.Same with the horn,the radiator fan,the temp and oil pressure gauge wires.Not to mention various unused connectors for items this particular brat didn't have.Inside the car the radio,glove box light,ash tray light,dome light,seat belt buzzer/light,handbrake light, seat belt timer,and most of the wires for the instrument cluster-GONE.

 

I'm not running the factory instrument cluster because: the speedometer was shot and wouldn't have been accurate especially with the bigger tires.Then there is the matter of the gauges themselves.With the EJ swap I would need an oil pressure and a temp gauge,while I could wire up the engine to the 40 year old gauges I wouldn't trust them anyway. Finally with the bigger fuel tank I am putting in its sender wouldn't even work with the original gauge.So instead of the factory cluster I will make my own cluster with new oil,temp,volts,and fuel gauges.The speedometer will be my GPS semi-permanently mounted where the cluster would have been anyway.Then I will put LEDs on top of the dash for the left/right turn signal indicators,the high beam indicator,and the check engine light for the EJ22.

 

All said and done I removed 1.5-2 lbs of wiring.Now to tape up what is left of the dash wiring and string out the body harness in the car so I can cut the wires for the headlights.I'm rewiring the headlights so:

1: they are powered by relays

2: so there will be no wires that go across the original lower core support,instead the wires for the driver side lights will be ran by the firewall then to their destination.

While I am at it the starter solenoid wire will also be fed by a relay.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Uberoo

[Uberoo]

I suppose its time for an update of sorts.Sence we last met:

 

I found a job

bought a truck

mentored my friend in restoring a 78 mercedes benz 300 CD

lost the job

finished work on the MB

worked a bunch of odd jobs

In addition to dealing with various family BS

 

So I haven't had much time to work on my projects but I was able to install the front suspension crossmember. Then I was able to remove the sound deadening tar from the floor of the brat to find its various cancer locations. Tonight I was able to cut out most of that cancer. Once I get that fixed the new EJ22 and 5 speed DR that I got from pull and save will go in so I can start mocking up the front suspension soon.

 

So current plan is to weld in patch panels to the floor, remake my EA/EJ adapter plate so I don't have to drill out the holes on the EJ, stuff ej22+5sp DR combo into 78 brat,then mock up the super dooper long travel front suspension geometry thats in my head.I also need to go to a parts store and get some inline fuse holders for the relayed headlights and starter.Then go strip the ej harness.I thought of integrating the harnesses but I would rather be able to take this engine/harness and put it in another shell if this one happens to bend in half or something...

 

I will post up some pics of what ive done so far tomorrow. 

[Uberoo]

So shortly after that lost post I went down to colorado to hang out with my dad and see if I could find a job.So I packed up all my stuff,cleaned out the garage so my mom could actually park her car in the other bay...(god I wish I could find/keep a decent and move out ). So everything got let in situ. Well long story short I stayed down in Co for about 2 months, before my dad's girlfriend and I got into a heated argument that escalated until she kicked me out of her house.So I drove back up to lewiston and starting putting the pieces of my life back together.I leave idaho for 2 months and everything devolved into a total crapstorm. I'm just now finishing putting out all the small/large metaphorical fires. I also picked up an old honda trail 90 that had sat in a barn for the better part of 20-30 years.So for the past couple of weeks Ive been devoting most of my "free time" into returning it into a running/driving/somewhat reliable condition. At the time of this writing it is 97% there, it runs and drives, the lights work, the battery is charging,and thanks to new intertubes the tires hold air.The carb still needs work because sometimes it idles and sometimes it stalls,Ive taken the carb apart 5-6 times already. The engine runs but sometime over the winter I need to pull the cylinder head off because the rings or valve guides are worn out and it smokes a little. BUT no one gives a shite about all that,and instead are more interested in the progress Ive made with the brat.After dinner I will go and take some pics of what I have been up to.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Uberoo

[ferp420]

my girl and i have his and hers honda trail 90s they rock and would fit easyly on the back of a suby

[Uberoo]

So right now I have the front suspension on it.Its the right height but I have to move the piviot points inward and extend the control arms.So its more or less just to mock every thing up.

 

Then I have the floor panels mostly in,then I noticed a small crack where some cancer was under the seat,and just like cancer it has to be removed.

 

Then I was having trouble keeping track of everything that needs done so I wrote up a list.My list:

 

Its been rainy so I haven't been able to go outside and make the patch panels for under the seat so I occupied myself with some needed destruction. So I unbolted the rear swing arm from its connection to the torsion bar so I can move the suspension. Even with no valve core the 235/75/15 needed some room to stuff into the fender.I forgot to grab pics of that but just imagine lots of fire and you will be pretty close. I do however have the rear tire stuffed in the fender pretty good though.

 

the tire can still go up another inch before the axle binds up,so I will cut back another inch and a half.Then put a bumpstop in that will prevent too much stuffing.Even though the back end is currently way higher than it would be at ride height,I have to take the tire off to figure out where to put the limiting strap to prevent the axle from ripping apart.That much cutting is just so the tire can move through its full travel at the CV,not so much just to make it fit...

[Uberoo]

So after the 3rd round or 4th round of cutting I was able to get the tire to stuff as far as the axle will allow.I measured from the ground to the center of the hub at 22.5",after I took the tire off,the hub sat on the ground with a little more stretch in the axle at 4" off the ground.So theoretical CV travel is 18.5" of vertical travel,how much of that the rear suspension will allow is another story.

 

So if everything front and rear works properly,there is something like 13" of travel in the front and 18.5" of travel in the rear possible.The rear is easy to get that-remove alot of sheetmetal.The front on the other hand requires revised pivot points and a coilover or longer strut....

Edited December 9, 2014 by Uberoo

[Gloyale]

Looking good man......keep at it.

 

Love the to do list

[Uberoo]

Damn it.I went out in the garage and tried to drill the holes in the piece of plastic I was gonna use for the adapter,and promptly FUBARed it.With metal I can center punch a hole and hold the pieces and gently touch the spinning drill to it and it will center itself with minimal drama.With the HDPE not a chance in hell,so I ended up drilling blind.The 1/2" holes I drilled would fit the engine but the plate would not fit when I pressed in the 3/8"IDx1/2"OD steel spacers-not even close.So I guess I will pay the machine shop to swiss cheess the remaining chunk of adapter sized hdpe. damn.

[Uberoo]

After going through and re-reading this entire thread I feel ashamed.Its been over a year and the brat still isnt that much closer to being done and driving.Hell right now the suspension won't support its weight so its on jackstands. If I typed up everything I have managed to get done in the limited time I have had to work on it over the past year and condensed it down, it would be a good productive week.Still though some free time should be opening up for me.I worked for a month at a walmart that was 38 miles away.Overnight shifts and spending 1/2 my paycheck on fuel just to get up there wasn't for me so I quit.During the entire time I worked there I never had the time or was too tired to work on my brat.During that time I never even went into the garage except to scoop up some cat food.The last couple of days I've spent just getting used to seeing daylight again.Today I got a late start but I managed to clean up the torch cuts in the wheel well with the grinder.Then I welded some layers of sheetmetal together in places where clearancing the wheel well removed 1 or more layers.Then I welded up some holes left in the body from trim rivets.I need to go get a flap disk to blend those welds into the sheetmetal. My optimistic plan for tomorrow is to make some patch panels to fill in the gaping holes in the wheel well as well as the one hole in the floor.So some incremental work...

in other news the plastic plate I'm gonna *TRY* to use as an adapter plate is at the machine shop,and hopefully they can get to it and have it done by monday..

[Uberoo]

So I got a little more done yesterday.I was able to fabricate and install 2 of the patch panels for the rear wheel well.Fabricating sheet metal patch panels takes forever.

and the next piece of the puzzle.

 

Didn't really get alot done because I ran out of wire and I had a late start because of going to the bar on sunday... 

After I finish this wheel well I'm gonna divert my attention to the interior so I can get rid of all the interior pieces that are in the bed...