Need to build 3 lifts

[djellum]

Hey,

 

so I will be building lifts with some peoples tax returns, and just wanted to verify a few things from those that have actually installed or built some.  I don't have all the vehicles right here and haven't gotten a chance to fully measure and inspect them yet to get a plan.  If all 3 happen, then it will be a gen 1 brat, gen 2 brat, and gen 3 wagon, so no measure one and build 3 on this project.  all will be around the 3-4 inch mark.  none for hardcore wheeling, just fishing, snow play, etc.

 

basic plan is to keep all geometry stock.  just to make sure I'm not forgetting something...

 

1) front strut spacers (assuming no need for 15 degree offset if the crossmember is dropped the same amount)

2) the wagon will have the strut spacers in the rear and I will drop the front of the trailing arm to keep the tire back under the wheel well.  will drop the rear end as well (I hear that brats don't have the struts so I will need to check out how they mount up)

3) engine, trans, and carrier bearing will have rectangle tubing spacers (May tie in the engine and trans mounts, and try to run tube to the front and make skid plate mounts on it.

4) extend the steering and shift levers.  Any good suggestions on the steering extension?  shift levers I will probably just cut and re weld together to fit.  Should end up with no impact in the interior, it should work in the stock console.  ok to change it a little, but should look and fit nice.

 

Are there any major differences in design for the different generations (besides the obviously different measurements)? 

 

Im assuming most of the cables and hoses will fit.  barring changing a radiator hose or something, what are the main pitfalls of dropping the engine/trans?  speedo cable or anything?

 

Anything else I should know to check on before starting?

 

 

[El Presidente]

Gen 3 wagons:

 

1. You need to have the offset for the front blocks no matter how far you drop the crossmember. If you go straight down, it will translate to 16-17* out when installed. I recommend 18*, 15* is too shy and will have a slight positive camber. With a slight negative camber(at 18*), you get better road manners in corners and when you accelerate, the camber goes to near zero keeping tread wear even and improves road traction. It helps keep axles alive too.

 

2. Sounds good. You don't have to drop the whole thing down evenly, the rear is much more forgiving. I'd drop the rear shocks 4" and everything else 2". The tire will be slightly forward, but all the suspension won't look funny hanging down(and won't get hung up on stuff..ascetics and function)

 

3. I tapered my lift from the motor to the back. My engine is at 5" my trans is at 4" and I don't have any blocks on my carrier, its just flipped upside down, which I really like because it never hits anything. I've seen a couple rigs with dropped carrier bearings and they tend to get hung up on stuff or torn out. I recommend using one solid piece for the front two mounting points for the trans mount and a single one for the rear trans mount bracket. Welding the two together with brackets helps keep the rig feeling solid and prevents problems down the road of mounting point bending or tearing out(I've seen it). Also tie the forward rear trailing arm mounts together. For med/light wheeling you don't need to tie the engine blocks to the trans blocks but it would help. 

 

If you go 4" you can drop the engine 3", trans 2" and flip the carrier bearing.

 

4. You can keep it looking 100% stock inside. Unfortunatly the steering joint is usually a custom fit deal, I think its been tried to standardize these, but to many diferences mad it not work. The linkage for the shifter and Hi/Lo is alot more forgiving and you could even incorperate a threaded section that would make it adjustable, just don't forget to put lock nuts on it so they don't move from vibration. 

 

Speedo cable is fine

Radiator hoses will probably need to be swapped out

Heater core hoses can be replaced with sections of standard 5/8"

There are some ground wires that need to be extended, one from the firewall to the tranny and another from the driver head to the backside of the headlight housing.

 

My rig is lifted 6 1/2" front, 5 1/2" rear(to keep it level) 5" motor drop, 4" trans drop, carrier bearing flipped, 4" dropped rear trailing arms and rear diff. I also extended my radius rods 1 1/2" to easily clear 31's. All my linkages and steering joint are custom, made to fit. Ej'd, the rear is bobbed and truck bed'd. Drives great on the road and does awesome off.

 

Josh

[djellum]

I always thought the 15 degree offset was because the tire moves in a bit when its extended down, and if you push it down with spacers then you need to account for the new center line of the wheel.  I would think that moving the crossmember as well wouldn't change where the wheel sits as much.  Is the 15 degrees because the top mounts aren't level or something?

 

 Ill probably do that on the carrier.  I don't like the idea of stuff hanging down that doesn't need to be.  as long as it won't tear it up ill leave in tucked in.

 

ill probably have to taper at least one of the brats.  I think he wanted a 3 inch front and 2 inch in rear to level his rig up.

 

 

 

thanks for the info, anything helps to get a better plan going.  

[ShawnW]

For the price of an SJR lift you can't go wrong.  Its a lot of time and materials.  Especially when you consider the R&D has already been done, covered, etc on getting the tires to not completely trash out quickly.  I love doing things myself-I try to do almost everything but for a lift I wouldn't anymore.  If you were trying to make 3 of the same gen/or type I would possibly agree with you but 3 different bodies and not all of them for yourself I wouldn't.

[Gloyale]

I always thought the 15 degree offset was because the tire moves in a bit when its extended down, and if you push it down with spacers then you need to account for the new center line of the wheel.  I would think that moving the crossmember as well wouldn't change where the wheel sits as much.  Is the 15 degrees because the top mounts aren't level or something?

 

It's matching the angle of the mounting surface in the body.  If you don't angle them, you will push the tops out by about .25" per inch of lift.

 

17 degrees works well for Gen 2. 

 

I think the Gen 1 is  20.

 

Gen 3 16 degrees.

 

If you go 17 or more on a Gen 3 for more than a 3" lift it will push them in too far and they will hit the frame rails.  Even with correct angle some bashing of the inner part of the strut tower is required to clear the bottoms of the plates

 

But becareful.....it's not just the angle, but the rotation of the angled tube relative to the top plate.  1st and 2nd gens are easy.....tip is almost totally inward, perpendicular to the both holes.......but Gen 3 with the 3 hole pattern, and the angle going in, and back.......make it a bit more tricky.

 

I have jigs to make sure HighGuysLifts are correct.

 

 

And for Gen 2 rears you DEFINATELY want to crossbrace the rear.......even just for a streeter.  EA81 rear suspension likes to "paralellagram" when cornering because the blocks are all in line.  This will hyperextend you axles.

[jmoss5723]

I always thought the 15 degree offset was because the tire moves in a bit when its extended down, and if you push it down with spacers then you need to account for the new center line of the wheel.  I would think that moving the crossmember as well wouldn't change where the wheel sits as much.  Is the 15 degrees because the top mounts aren't level or something?

 

 Ill probably do that on the carrier.  I don't like the idea of stuff hanging down that doesn't need to be.  as long as it won't tear it up ill leave in tucked in.

 

ill probably have to taper at least one of the brats.  I think he wanted a 3 inch front and 2 inch in rear to level his rig up.

 

 

 

thanks for the info, anything helps to get a better plan going.  

 

I made this mistake when I made the lift for my Brat. I figured If I drop everything then the angles will stay the same. Boy was I wrong. I had to make new blocks for the strut tops with an offset. Now everything is nice.

 

It's kind of hard for me to explain it with words, but trust me you NEED the offset even when dropping the crossmember.