Questions about 2002 Forester engine work

[McFuggin]

I've got a 2002 Forester S/Limited with about 120k miles(can't remember what it's called, too lazy to go trudging through the snow to look. Power everything/Keyless, heated mirrors and seats, limited slip rear end, etc. Very nice ride). To make a long story short I've paid over $10k for the car with the loan, new clutch, etc. It's been sitting for the past two years as it needs serious engine work/engine replacement, and all of the front end plastic (something I can do myself for <$500, more on that later). I want to get it on the road again, but I need to know if it's worth it. It burned a serious amount of oil (1 qt/week) from day one, then started misfiring, tuneup+new coilpack didn't fix the misfire. The shop I took it to said that the piston rings are bad on 1 cylinder, and likely were from when I bought it. What they told me was that subaru doesn't have sleeved cylinders, so if the cylinder walls are damaged (which they said is likely) then I need a new block, you can't hone subaru cylinders. How accurate of a statement is that? Is it possible to just do a bottom end rebuild, or do I need a new block? What engine does it have? EJ251 is what I've found online, is that correct?

 

Assuming I need a new engine, I'm trying to get an idea of what would be more cost effective (if the car is even worth putting the money into). Should I try to get one similar to mine complete that got rump roast-ended, and take all of the plastic and engine and swap it over, or pick up an engine from eBay or whatever. A 'short block' would get me block, crank, pistons+rods and I use my existing heads, alt, power steering etc correct? Should I be looking at just the engine block itself and reuse crank, rods, pistons and EVERYTHING else, or should I try to get a short block? Any idea on a rough idea on a price break between them? If I get an engine from a junkyard I'm going to do head gaskets, water pump and timing belt for peace of mind anyway, so swapping from old to new isn't a concern by any means.  What about engine swaps? If it isn't too much more going to an H6 from an outback or a tubocharged 4-cyl from a WRX or STI I would love to do it (I have no idea if H6 is even possible, just throwing it out there). I've seen writeups on cutting and splicing engine harnesses together from a WRX, and it's something I could do as long as there's a writeup for my application.

 

Last question, it has a limited slip rear differential (I think it uses a viscous coupling, but I can't be sure.) This car has always been uncontrollable on snow/ice when trying to powerslide through corners. I've driven 4WD and AWD's before and had no issues throwing them through corners sideways, but in this car any time I give it extra gas the rump roast end tries it's damnedest to come around front, which typically resulted in me doing a 180 and going off the road (hence why it needs all new plastic on the front end). Is it because of the LSD in the rear, or do I just not 'get' subaru's? How big of a job/how much does it cost to swap to a traditional open differential? IE do you have to swap the whole rear differential case, or is it just the pumpkin?

 

 

Thank you for any and all comments.

[Fairtax4me]

You have an EJ251.

Piston rings don't go bad on these. Though there have been problems in some where the oil changes were neglected. There are tiny drain holes in the piston behind the Oil control ring and those get clogged up with crud which causes the rings to seize in the pistons. Then you start burning oil.

This can usually be fixed by running a high detergent (high mileage) or synthetic oil, or using about a half quart of Marvels Mystery Oil mixed with the regular oil. Worst case the pistons have to be pulled out and cleaned by hand, but it doesn't require a new engine to fix.

 

Yes, Subaru blocks are sleeved, the sleeves are cast into the block. No the sleeve is not replaceable, but it doesn't need to be. They can be bored over and re-honed, but they hardly ever need it. The cylinder walls just don't wear that much.

 

The shop you took it to just isn't knowledgable about Subarus. So anything they said you can pretty much toss out the window. If you have the time and some tools you can do some basic checks like pulling the spark plugs to get an idea of what's going on in each cylinder.

You can rent a compression test kit and check the compression yourself.

 

I wouldn't bother right now with trying to find a new engine until you have an accurate idea of exactly what's going on in yours.

 

 

As for the rear diff. I haven't had the chance to drive one of these with the rear VLSD in the snow, so I can't say if its normal for the back end to want to to the steering. But I have driven plenty of RWD cars/trucks, even a BMW 325es (which was less fun than it might sound), with limited slip or locking diffs in the snow, and they certainly tend to do the steering with the gas pedal.

Of the AWD Subarus I've driven in snow, the way to spin them out is to lift off the throttle in a turn. If your foot is on the gas the cars is pretty much gonna to wherever you point the wheels. The automatics behave a bit differently than manuals, being a bit less likely to go sideways when you take your foot out of it.

A rear diff swap isn't that hard, as long as the mounting bolts aren't rusted to hell. Just swap the whole thing, case and all. You can't open the case until you get it out anyway because of the way its mounted.

[gbhrps]

McFuggin,

 

Don't know if this is a route you want to go, but it is an alternative. Check out these guys online: JDMTigerJapaneseEngines.

 

They sell complete engines, trannies, combinations of both, and even front clips including the engine and tranny. All units are from the Japanese market where outrageous taxes on cars over 3 years old force everyone to junk them starting year 4. Consequently, the parts seldom have more than 45 000 miles on them. Tiger buys them by the container from auto wreckers in Japan. They ship all over North America, and the prices are more than reasonable.

 

With a little checking you might  even find an Japanese Domestic Market engine supplier closer to home in a large city. Good Luck!

[McFuggin]

You have an EJ251. Piston rings don't go bad on these. Though there have been problems in some where the oil changes were neglected. There are tiny drain holes in the piston behind the Oil control ring and those get clogged up with crud which causes the rings to seize in the pistons. Then you start burning oil. This can usually be fixed by running a high detergent (high mileage) or synthetic oil, or using about a half quart of Marvels Mystery Oil mixed with the regular oil. Worst case the pistons have to be pulled out and cleaned by hand, but it doesn't require a new engine to fix.

 

This is very encouraging. I rescanned my post, and I see that I neglected to mention that the same hole that has a misfire will cover the plug in oil, and has low compression. Still can be gummed up rings? Where it's been sitting so long I will probably dump the oil, put fresh oil in mixed with marvel (subtracting .5 qt of oil for the added .5 qt of Marvel), and put a charge of marvel in the cylinders, unplug coil pack and pull fuel pump relay, and crank it daily/twice daily for a little while to try to free everything up, then start it up and see if the smoke clears/CEL stops flashing. Does that sound like a good procedure or a bad idea? The car hasn't been started more than a dozen times in the past 2 years, last was 6 months ago now. I figure that sitting for that long certainly hasn't helped the situation out any, so adding marvel inside the cylinder itself might go a long way to cleaning everything up.

 

Yes, Subaru blocks are sleeved, the sleeves are cast into the block. No the sleeve is not replaceable, but it doesn't need to be. They can be bored over and re-honed, but they hardly ever need it. The cylinder walls just don't wear that much. The shop you took it to just isn't knowledgable about Subarus. So anything they said you can pretty much toss out the window. If you have the time and some tools you can do some basic checks like pulling the spark plugs to get an idea of what's going on in each cylinder. You can rent a compression test kit and check the compression yourself. I wouldn't bother right now with trying to find a new engine until you have an accurate idea of exactly what's going on in yours.

 

Good info. Definitely sticking with a shop that knows subaru's in the future.

 

If your foot is on the gas the cars is pretty much gonna to wherever you point the wheels. The automatics behave a bit differently than manuals, being a bit less likely to go sideways when you take your foot out of it/

 

This is the way that all of the AWD and 4WD vehicles I've ever driven have acted. The vehicle will head in whatever direction the steering wheels are pointed. With enough throttle the rump roast end will come around, but it isn't to hard to get it to fall back in line. With my Subaru as soon as I get on the gas, the rump roast end is fighting to get ahead of the front tires, and one it starts to slide it's 100% uncontrollable. Similar to the RWD pickup I had but much, much worse. Good info on the swap as well. I can do that in an afternoon, and I bet I can pick up the differential cheap at a junkyard.

 

 

JDMTigerJapaneseEngines

 

Wow. WOW. Better prices than I've seen anywhere else. It doesn't look like I'll need a new engine, but if I do it will be through these guys. They don't have any front clips, but at least I have a new source to look for parts. Thanks for the link.

[gbhrps]

Mcfuggin,

 

The front clips I was referring to are for 1990 - 1996 Nissan 300ZX's. I was looking for replacement engines, etc. for my 90 ZX, if and when that day comes. I really never looked at the Subie parts at the time. And, yes, they have great prices on engines for just about any Japanese made car.