1986 GL Wagon no fuel getting to carb?

[turtleisland]

Hello subaru-gurus,

 

I recently acquired an 86 GL wagon with 230,000 miles. For a few days after I brought it home, on cold starts in the morning it would fire up but idle at a very low RPM. It would stall, and have to be restarted until it seemed to warm-up and then it was fine. Then one day, after starting it and getting the same start-up symptoms I was driving it down the road and about four miles from my house, it stopped running while driving at 55mph down the highway. I coasted it to the side of the road and attempted to restart it. It presented symptoms similar to those when it was cold started, as described above --- fired but would not stay running or even idle. After repeated attempts, the engine progressively showed no sign of starting. 

When I dump gas into the open throat of the carb the engine will start for a few seconds and then stall out. On seeing this I changed the fuel filter closest to the gas tank hoping that might be the problem. I attempted to start the engine equipped with the new filter but it would not start. Since the new fuel filter is clear, I noticed that after my prolonged attempt at starting, that almost no fuel had filled the new filter. If the fuel pump is pumping shouldn't all of the excess air in the filter be pumped toward the carb and thus get the air out of the fuel filter? Could my problem be anything else than a bad fuel pump?

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

[ruparts]

hi,

  i was thinking there is another filter in the engine compartment, like up near the brake cylinder area, if you can check on that one too.  the pumps can go bad,  the pick-up sock inside the tank can get clogged up,   don't expect the fuel filter to be completely full,   they are never full even if the car is running great has been my experience.

[turtleisland]

Thanks for the reply.

 

Upon closer inspection I would speculate that the fuel pump was replaced at some point in the distant past (there is electrical tape over where the wires were soldered together, and the fuel pump's mounting bracket is not attached to the available bolt for it). 

 

How would I get at the pick-up sock?

[ruparts]

Thanks for the reply.

 

Upon closer inspection I would speculate that the fuel pump was replaced at some point in the distant past (there is electrical tape over where the wires were soldered together, and the fuel pump's mounting bracket is not attached to the available bolt for it). 

 

How would I get at the pick-up sock?

 

 hi,

  you cannot get into the tank,  if you remove the fuel guage sender,  its on the top  right rear of the tank under a metal panel inside the car,,  you can look inside using a light or probe scope..   i have seen tanks that are literally caked with rust and crud,  but if the car has been in use,  mostly they are in ok condition.  the long time sitting ones are the suspisious ones..  i only mentioned the sock since  it "can be" a source of obstruction to fuel flow,, i'd elimainate the other stuff first.   i think there are 2 filters, 1 at the pump and another 1  under the hood.  not sure but the carb may have one in it, maybe some guys that have ea82 carbs can say.  i am more familiar with the mpfi system fuel inject.   you're sure it's carb and not the spfi injection system?  that would have some sensors that might cause your problem.

 and last if the pass side timing belt broke or slipped some it can almost start but not run,, same for the driver side but that side also runs the ignition distributor so if it slipped a couple of teeth it might cause these symptoms,  do you have any history on the car to help diagnosis?

[silverback]

What ruparts said.

 

Also, you need to verify power to the fuel pump.

 

Not sure what carb that you have. If there are two fuel fittings, one supply & one return ( return is the one on top ), then there is a fuel filter in the carb.  The carb filter is the last to change at this point in time.

 

You had some cold weather there that can lock up standing water in gas tanks, gas barrels, etc.. You may have picked up a load of questionable gas.  Same gas going into your Outback?

Edited March 9, 2014 by silverback

[turtleisland]

  i'd elimainate the other stuff first.   i think there are 2 filters, 1 at the pump and another 1  under the hood.  not sure but the carb may have one in it, maybe some guys that have ea82 carbs can say.  i am more familiar with the mpfi system fuel inject.   you're sure it's carb and not the spfi injection system?  that would have some sensors that might cause your problem.

 and last if the pass side timing belt broke or slipped some it can almost start but not run,, same for the driver side but that side also runs the ignition distributor so if it slipped a couple of teeth it might cause these symptoms,  do you have any history on the car to help diagnosis?

The second filter you are speaking of: Is it roughly a third the size of the one by the gas tank and has three hoses connected to it?

I'm pretty sure it is a carburetor I'm dealing with. It has a throat like those you would see on old American V8s.

What would be an indicator that it would be an mpfi system?

The fellow who sold me the car had regular maintenance done, including some major things, but seemed to know very little about how this car works. He owned the car for seven years and said he didn't need it any more so sold it to me. 

[turtleisland]

What ruparts said.

 

Also, you need to verify power to the fuel pump.

 

Not sure what carb that you have. If there are two fuel fittings, one supply & one return ( return is the one on top ), then there is a fuel filter in the carb.  The carb filter is the last to change at this point in time.

 

You had some cold weather there that can lock up standing water in gas tanks, gas barrels, etc.. You may have picked up a load of questionable gas.  Same gas going into your Outback?

How can I verify the carb that I have?

 

I'll check tomorrow if I have power to the fuel pump when I get a voltage meter. I'm assuming that if I put a voltage meter on it while someone else is cranking it over then that will at least show periodized voltage going to the fuel pump or a constant measure if the resistor is in the pump itself. 

 

 

Same gas going in to all of our tanks, this has been the only issue. 

 

Thanks to both of you for the pointers.

[ruparts]

hi,

 very unlikely it's a mpfi system,  i had asked if it was perhaps a spfi system,, their throttle body does look sort of  like a carburetor.    if it has a big kidney shaped metal air filter box with 3 wing nuts on it, mounted on top of the carb then it's carburetor,   if it has a rectangular shaped  rubber  thing with a big rubber air intake hose going over to an air filter box on the inner fender,  that would be a FI system.   as for that 3 hose filter thing i believe that's  the other one refered to.  the FI systems have a filter there but it's metal since it sees 50 or so psi and they are only in and out, 2 connections.   you should see voltage at the pump while someone is cranking it over,  you might disconnect it from the harness and run 12v direct and see what amount it produces into a jug or gas can.   also can  check the under dash fuses and the fusable links , they are in a black box by the overflow tank for the radiator.  

[turtleisland]

Update:

 

So I got a voltage meter and it is registering that I am getting power to the fuel pump. I then pulled the fuel pump, exposed the wires, and touched them to the battery... and no noise from the pump, no sparks from when the wires were connected to the battery. I am assuming that this means that the fuel pump is bad.

 

Could there be any other explanation?

 

Also, the EGR light came on a couple of days before the above symptoms started to worsen. Could the EGR light turn on because of a failing fuel pump, or is that something different all together?

Edited March 9, 2014 by turtleisland

[silverback]

I am not sure what carb that you have. You have an EA82? FWD, 4WD? AT or MT?

There may be an ID tag on the carb. 87 GL wagons had an Hitachi DCZ 328-XXXX. MT and AT were the same for jetting, venturi size and such. At this point in time, changing the filter in the carb would be one of the last procedures that you do.

 

When you replace your pump, keep in mind that the fuel pump may get power when the ignition is switched to 'run', pump for about 1-1/2 seconds, stop and wait for an 'rpm' signal. On my 87, there is a rev. sensor between the ignition switch and fuel pump. The fuel pump resumes pumping when the engine is running. Not sure about your 86.

 

Don't go hog wild about a replacement fuel pump. You only need a couple PSI output for your Hitachi or a future Weber.

Edited March 9, 2014 by silverback

[Dave Fox]

"When you replace your pump, keep in mind that the fuel pump may get power when the ignition is switched to 'run', pump for about 1-1/2 seconds, stop and wait for an 'rpm' signal. On my 87, there is a rev. sensor between the ignition switch and fuel pump. The fuel pump resumes pumping when the engine is running. Not sure about your 86."

 

Thanks for advice. I didn't know where to look for any rev sensor.  My '86 GL occasionally (once per year) runs for 30 seconds and runs out of gas when the fuel pump turns off after just starting the engine. This problem can last for a day or two; what a nuisance at first! One work around I discovered is to slightly rotate the ignition switch from the "run" position towards the "start" position, but not enough to actually engage the starter. It isn't happy being engaged when the engine is already running. Then when rotated 1/2 way between, a contact in the ignition switch provides power for the fuel pump bypassing that rev sensor apparently. The downside of this tactic on rainy days is that while the engine runs, the wipers don't while the ignition switch is in this slightly-rotated position. Use Rain-X then.  I discovered this ill-advised-but-workable-solution when the return spring on my ignition switch broke and conveniently the switch would remain in that fuel-pump-on-regardless, half-rotated position. To know just when that ignition switch is rotated far enough but not too far, I installed a 12v indicator light on the dash with wires in series with the fuel pump's supply wiring to let me know when the fuel pump is receiving 12v of power. If once per year or whenever that dash light is unlit, I know that I need to slightly rotate the ignition switch to supply power to the fuel pump until things clear up again. Maybe the rev sensor, wherever it is, is wonky?  Since the problem only occurs once per year, I've had little incentive to look for that rev sensor. One hopes that in a year or so a newer car will take its place. But the Subaru just keeps on running. Sort of.

[Rivadawg]

I have similar problems except i have plenty of fuel coming to carb. It will fill the bowl then run for about 20 seconds and die. I checked the needle and float seems to be okay Why wont it stay going

[Gloyale]

clogged emulsion tubes.

 

need to take the top of the carb, unscrew the emulsion tubes and blow them out with carb cleaner and compressed air.