long travel Outbacks or making Subarus faster and more reliable offroad

[pontoontodd]

We drove the Outback down to Interlake over the weekend and met a couple of friends with their woods buggy.  This was the best place we could think of where we could run fairly rough but fast trails all day.  Didn't really go that way for various reasons, one of which was that they had to crawl through the water holes to stay dry.  I asked him to go as fast as he could and stick to the main trails.  That didn’t really happen, but we did go 30-45mph on most of the main trails.  The Outback seemed to bottom out more easily than I’d like when going 10-20mph, but when we’d hit similar rocks and ruts at 40mph it seemed to soak them up.  There were quite a few other people out on the trails and not a lot of trails we could really go fast on, so we didn’t run a very high average speed.

 

At one point we were back on some moderately difficult trails back in the woods and came to a difficult muddy step up.  There were two lines that both looked very difficult for the Outback.  They couldn’t get up either in the woods buggy.  There was another line down through a water hole to bypass those.  They backed up the buggy to get off the main trail and ran into the Outback.  It did nothing to our front bumper but put a little dent in his engine cage.  They were able to take the bypass, but it looked difficult.  By this point a group of Jeeps had come up behind us and decided to watch.  I was able to get off the main trail and out of the ruts much more easily than I expected and dropped into the water hole but could only get about halfway up the muddy climb out.  I backed up and hit it again from a different angle and went right to the top.  The Jeep guys all cheered and laughed and were quite impressed.  At that point our friend said the Jeep guys would all have to do that or go home humiliated, and they all made it without difficulty.

 

At one point we were trying a steep hill climb I was barely able to make in the Outback earlier in the day.  We tried it once and didn’t quite get all the way to the top.  Then the car kept stalling and it was cranking slow and eventually would not restart.  We jump started it and went back out the easy way.  Battery was only at about 10V at this point but the voltage did go up some when the car was running.

After about 4 the sun was really killing our visibility with the muddy windows and we were getting frustrated with the slow pace and voltage and decided to call it a day.

On the plus side we’d spent 6-7 hours in the car, most of that time strapped in with window nets up, helmets and suits on, etc and it was quite comfortable.  It was hot without the AC on even though it was only in the 50s, so we had the AC on most of the day.  When we were behind the buggy running fast the dust made it hard to see but it stayed out of the car.  Being able to finish a desert race in the time limit will really come down to how rough the course is.

We charged the battery overnight up to 12.3V.  Put it in the car and by the time we got home it was up to 12.8V, so the alternator seems to still work.  Even at idle it goes up to 13.5V.

[pontoontodd]

So, some questions in no particular order.

 

Where can I get a legit (bladder & can) one gallon fuel cell?  Or a wedge shaped 2 or 3 gallon cell?

 

Still wondering what the best Subaru sun visors are.  Not having those was annoying and the stock ones are almost too loose to bother putting back in.

 

Anyone ever built a scattershield for a Subaru transmission?  Trying to decide between attaching it to the trans or the tunnel.

 

Does the AC compressor disengage at full throttle?  I don't think it does and keep meaning to rig up a switch to accomplish that.

 

Where can I get fusible links / what amp rating should it be (to replace the one in the fuse box by the battery)?

 

How can I disable or remove the alarm?  It started going off occasionally when the battery started to get low.  I have never heard it before this weekend.

[Uberoo]

Do you even know how to google? 5 minutes with google answered all those questions.

[torxxx]

as for the visors, they are all horrible.  I tried everything from 1980 to 2007 in my 98 Outback, ended up taking them out of the car completely and use sunglasses now.  
Any parts store will have fusible links,   I Wouldnt mess with them, they are a thing of the pass.  Get a re-settable DC breaker.   Might cost a bit more than a fusible link, but they make a loud click when they pop and you just push a button just like a GFI household outlet.
Yes AC shuts off at WOT

[pontoontodd]

as for the visors, they are all horrible.  I tried everything from 1980 to 2007 in my 98 Outback, ended up taking them out of the car completely and use sunglasses now.  

Any parts store will have fusible links,   I Wouldnt mess with them, they are a thing of the pass.  Get a re-settable DC breaker.   Might cost a bit more than a fusible link, but they make a loud click when they pop and you just push a button just like a GFI household outlet.

Yes AC shuts off at WOT

 

Thanks for the tips.

[pontoontodd]

Video of our last trip to Interlake.  We were more focused on testing the car than shooting video but we did get a few good clips.

 

Edited November 24, 2015 by pontoontodd

[Scott in Bellingham]

What have you done to strengthen the front a-control arms?

[pontoontodd]

What have you done to strengthen the front a-control arms?

 

First I just added some square tubing to the stock ones.

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/144953-99-outback-build-advice-wanted/page-2?do=findComment&comment=1231150

 

That seemed to work but when we made the long travel I built new control arms to make them stronger and shift the wheels forward and out a little.

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/144953-99-outback-build-advice-wanted/page-4?do=findComment&comment=1270481

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/144953-99-outback-build-advice-wanted/page-4?do=findComment&comment=1272393

 

Really we've only bent a couple of stock arms and every time it was when we clipped a big rock while going 10-20mph.

[pontoontodd]

On Friday we hooked the Impreza up to the Outback to check out the Trans Wisconsin Adventure Trail.  It looked like heavy rain all day in Indiana but none in Wisconsin and I've wanted to check out this route for a while.  Basically a bunch of gravel roads someone has made a route out of that goes north/south through Wisconsin, following the Mississippi for a while.  On the way we saw a flock of bald eagles eating a carcass (probably a deer) out in a field.  As soon as we stopped and got out to take pictures they all started to fly off but my friend counted nineteen of them.  Far more than I've ever seen in one place before.  Took about two hours to get to the first real gravel road so we unhooked the cars and set up the gopros.
A few of the gravel roads were windy and somewhat narrow with a few ditches or stream crossings, and there was probably at least a half mile long muddy stretch.  The Outback could definitely hit the ditches faster than the Impreza and handled the mud better but what we were on could probably be driven in almost anything.  We did play with the steering brake and it seems to do nothing at low speeds, which I've noticed before, but over 30 or 40mph it turns the car quite aggressively.  We definitely locked up the inside rear tire at least once.  Most of the route was wide gravel roads and maybe 1/3 pavement.  It's about what I expected, not really challenging but interesting and scenic.  It probably becomes more sandy and muddy as you go north.  We drove about 150 miles, about a quarter of the route, and it was dark so we hopped on the interstate and went back home.  I probably won't bother putting a video up on youtube as it wouldn't be very exciting to watch.

[pontoontodd]

Had our old CBs checked out at a local CB shop.  They were both OK but the antennas we had were both bad, which explains why they didn't work very well.  Installed one of them in the dash of the Outback.  I was happy with how well it fit below the radio.  Here you can see the hack job the PO did on the radio wiring.

 

 

Screwed in place perfectly.

 

 

Just enough room for the mic cable to come out the side and towards the front.

 

 

Don't have a picture of it but we screwed a mic hook just to the right of the radio so it's not just bouncing around the car.

 

 

Antenna is mounted on the rear corner of the hood with a big washer underneath.

 

 

So far it seems to be working great now, we had the other CB and a magnetic mount antenna I got on CL in the Impreza on our last trip.  Very nice being able to instantly communicate with each other.

[pontoontodd]

Got a different mount for the tablet (GPS) which is much more stable than the X mount I had.

 

 

Mounted the visors to the cage since I had them and haven't found anything better.

 

 

Tried adding friction to them by preloading the springs.  This turned out to be pretty easy but didn't do much.  I also mounted the brackets at an angle that had more friction than how they were mounted stock, but they still swing around when cornering.

 

[pontoontodd]

Replaced the rear diff recently, it was whining badly again.  The one I'd put in a couple years ago was ancient though.  I should probably change the oil in that occasionally.

 

I've done some brake work and replaced a rear wheel bearing.

 

Found a crack on one of the front knuckles months ago.  It's near the caliper bolt head.

 

 

Before I did anything else I test welded a plate on an old knuckle and couldn't hammer it off, so the weld seemed to hold.

 

Ground out the crack:

 

 

Welded it up and created a fillet:

 

 

Couple months later I noticed that the other three spindles were cracked in a similar spot.  So I did the same thing to them.  Grind out crack, preheat, weld.

 

 

 

So far I haven't seen any more cracks but we haven't done much offroading since then.

 

Planning on heading to Texas next week to see how it holds up to a desert race.

[pontoontodd]

Found out a couple days before we left that the course in Texas would be five laps on a 50 mile loop (instead of a 20 mile loop).  Still decided to go.

 

We left town Wednesday morning flat towing the Outback with our truck.  Somewhere north of Joplin MO we saw a giant shower of sparks and smoke in the mirrors.  We pulled over and the Outback was missing the RR wheel.  Three of the wheel studs were broken and one of the other two was bent.  I assume the lug nuts all came loose somehow, at least two fell off, and the rest were loose enough to eventually snap.  The pavement had ground at least a half inch off the bottom of the knuckle.  It was cold and dark and we clearly couldn’t move the car until we did something about this problem.  At that point I thought we’d have to get the OB towed somewhere and either go home or continue without it.  Fortunately I had brought a new rear hub so we knocked the studs out of that and got them in the old hub after taking the brake disc off.  We strapped the trailing arm to the knuckle so the bushing wouldn’t fall out the bottom, put a wheel and tire on and continued our trip.  For the rest of the trip every time we torqued the lug nuts on that corner they turned some before being tight.  We were torquing to 80 ft-lbs and later one of our friends said we should be going to 95 ft-lbs.

The next morning we picked up more lug nuts and wheel studs at two parts stores.

 

When we got to the pits at the top of the hill, we could look out and see flat desert for miles.  It was clear why the closest town is called Notrees.  Fired up the generator and cut a few pieces of steel to weld to the bottom of the knuckle on the OB, pressed the bushing back in, and put a different trailing arm on it.

 

Everyone crapped their pants when they realized we were planning on racing the OB.  They thought it was great.  They also had no idea what class it would be in.  I had figured class 10 (four cylinder water cooled) or heavy metal (stock frame rail truck) but they thought air cooled might be more appropriate speed wise.

Before 2PM people started pre running so we got suited up and went out on course.  I drove and one of the guys we've raced with navigated for me.  With his help I was able to follow the course.  About ten miles in the coolant temp started creeping up and eventually got to about halfway between the middle and the top.  We pulled over and found out one of the cooling fans wasn’t working.  We stuck the windshield washer pump hose in front of the radiator.  Then every time it started climbing I would hit the washer pump and it would go back down.  They had the course laid out so you went by the pits at mile 17 so we stopped.  We figured out one of the pins on the connector for the fan was bad so I spliced a wire around it and then they both seemed to stay on.  We went back out and continued the course.  The temperature was much more stable but would occasionally rise a bit above the middle of the gauge.  Our friend who works on rally cars says when they lose the front bumper cover they will overheat, so he thinks that's our main problem.  Around mile 40 something was slipping in the OB drivetrain but we didn’t see or smell any clutch smoke.  I pulled over for about five minutes to let it cool but the problem persisted.  Had to limp the rest of the course at about ¼ throttle to keep the clutch from slipping.  It took us about 2.5 hours in the OB with all the stops and taking it easy at the end.  I think it was about 1hr 40 minutes of driving time.  The fastest trophy trucks and buggies run about an hour, the slower baja bugs and 1600 cars run about 1 hour thirty minutes.  With a non slipping clutch and a little practice we should be able to run 1 hour 30 minute laps.  We had no good way to fix the clutch or trans so we just checked over the suspension and focused on our buggy the rest of the weekend.  Everything on the suspension looked good, knuckles aren't cracked, no loose bolts, etc, so I was happy with that.  We burned about five gallons of gas running 50 miles.  The guy who rode with me told me it was similar to his 1600 buggy.  He was surprised a few times with how well it soaked up the rough terrain.

 

The course was a lot of fun.  There were a lot of rough sections and tight sections but also many straight sections that were miles long.  Some of those were super smooth, others rough enough that we only went 30 or 40mph in the OB.  On the first wide, smooth, long straight there were berms roughly perpendicular to the
direction of the road but they were about the size of speed humps, fairly short and rounded.  We were hitting those at 40-50mph in the OB and getting a little air off some.  We were coming up on another one and realized at the last second it was a ditch, maybe two feet deep and twenty feet wide.  I think I mostly cleared it but it sent the OB flying and we were both amazed it didn’t seem to do any damage.  There was one section, I think along a powerline, with ruts that must have been at least 18” deep.  We were able to straddle them in the OB or we probably would have gotten stuck.  There was one steep rock face with a sharp transition at the bottom that
I hit a little too fast in the OB.

 

Yesterday morning we pulled the trans out of the Subaru and discovered the pressure plate was packed with grass.  The fingers were almost flat and the bolts didn’t have to unthread very far before they had no tension on them and the fingers didn’t move up much.  We clamped the fingers down using a big toggle clamp and socket and blew/picked all the grass out.  Then the fingers sat up at an angle.  Disc looks good.  Definitely have to get/make a cover for the bottom of the bellhousing.

 

We got some good video so eventually I'll edit that and post it.

 

We are considering going back to their next race in April.

 

Any thoughts on bellhousing cover or our overheating issue?  It sounds stupid but I would like to be able to run the AC, it gets hot in suits and helmets in an enclosed car.

[Cyfun]

That's a pretty sweet story, especially with you losing a goddamn wheel, fuxing up your hub, and happening to have the spare parts to get back on the road. I would have thought that your brake disc would be fucked for sure. Pretty ballsy not using a full car-hauler for any offroad activity in general. Next time, might be worth at least getting a u-haul, but I would think you could find a friend who would let you borrow one. Otherwise, might be worth investing in a trailer yourself. If you keep an eye out, can pick up a 16 footer for as low as $1500. At that price, you can always sell it for what you put into it. In fact, I have one I'd sell you for $1500, as it's kind of light weight and not good for hauling anything beyond snow mobiles or Japanese cars.

 

I'm surprised you don't have some sort of skid plate that extends past your bellhousing. Perhaps that would be the best solution.

 

As for your overheating, are you 100% positive it's a cooling system issue and not a headgasket issue?

 

In any case, sounds like a badass course. I'm honestly curious how many people ran out of fuel halfway through.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Cyfun

[ferp420]

If you get a small bolt and drill a hole next to the rod on your visor you can use 2 washers or something to clamp the visors down just don't over tighten them or you will bend the inside of the visor I've even gone as far as using wood panalung mounted to the factory brackets with them clamped like that they work great for off road or any older rigs

[Scott in Bellingham]

I had that same issue with grass in a clutch years ago on a Subaru buggy , great story!

[pontoontodd]

If you get a small bolt and drill a hole next to the rod on your visor you can use 2 washers or something to clamp the visors down just don't over tighten them or you will bend the inside of the visor I've even gone as far as using wood panalung mounted to the factory brackets with them clamped like that they work great for off road or any older rigs

 

Sounds like a simple solution, might even just be able to use one of the three bolts already holding it in.  Wasn't a problem last weekend.

[pontoontodd]

That's a pretty sweet story, especially with you losing a goddamn wheel, fuxing up your hub, and happening to have the spare parts to get back on the road. I would have thought that your brake disc would be fucked for sure. Pretty ballsy not using a full car-hauler for any offroad activity in general. Next time, might be worth at least getting a u-haul, but I would think you could find a friend who would let you borrow one. Otherwise, might be worth investing in a trailer yourself. If you keep an eye out, can pick up a 16 footer for as low as $1500. At that price, you can always sell it for what you put into it. In fact, I have one I'd sell you for $1500, as it's kind of light weight and not good for hauling anything beyond snow mobiles or Japanese cars.

 

I'm surprised you don't have some sort of skid plate that extends past your bellhousing. Perhaps that would be the best solution.

 

As for your overheating, are you 100% positive it's a cooling system issue and not a headgasket issue?

 

In any case, sounds like a badass course. I'm honestly curious how many people ran out of fuel halfway through.

 

The outside of the brake disc was starting to get ground but wasn't too bad.

 

We've talked about trailering it a lot.  Normally it's just one to three Subarus.  So we'd need some kind of tow vehicle and a trailer, which I don't have the room for, and then we'd have to buy and maintain those too.  Our philosophy at the moment is that in the long run it will be much cheaper to get the Subaru towed back home once a year or two, even if it's a $500 tow bill, than to invest in a truck and trailer.

We don't often use the box truck to tow the Subaru.  It wouldn't notice the extra weight of a trailer and it would be a little safer.

 

I already ordered a bellhousing dust shield from the dealer, but you are right about having some sort of skidplate below that.

 

The overheating could be a head gasket issue.  In the last six months I have had to add coolant to the radiator a couple of times and the overflow seems to occasionally puke a little coolant out.  So I'm not sure if I'm overfilling it or what.  I think the radiator cap was bad, replaced that recently.  How would I know the headgasket(s) are bad?  PO claimed they'd been replaced.

 

The course was a lot of fun.  Really about perfect for what we're doing, challenging but not too difficult that we didn't think we'd make it.  I'll put up video eventually.

 

I didn't hear about anyone running out of gas.  The loop was about 47 miles and at the 17 mile mark you went back by the pits.  I think almost everyone there besides us had raced there before and knew what they were doing.  Most of them had 20++ gallon gas tanks.  We burned about 5 gallons of fuel in one lap in the OB and about 8 in the buggy.

Edited January 22, 2016 by pontoontodd

[Cyfun]

Yeah, there are pro's and con's to investing in a trailer.  But when doing any sort of offroading, there is an extremely high likelihood that you'll break something.  So if the cost of just three tows is the price of a trailer, which you can always sell and get your money back out of, it's a decent investment, if only for the peace of mind.  I went without having a trailer til just last summer.  But even though I will only use it maybe five times a year, it's sure handy to be able to just throw a car on it and go.  Plus... trailer brakes are nice, especially when your tow vehicle throws a fan belt and you lose both power brakes and steering.  Ask me how I know, lol.

 

It could definitely have been the radiator cap.  But have you done a compression test recently?  If not, you can borrow the tester kit from most auto parts stores, or pick one up for $20 at Harbor Freight.  But even if you have good compression, you could still have a leak.  There's another method where you remove your rad cap and stick this thingy full of fluid in its place.  If the fluid changes color, you have compression leaking into your cooling system.  Pretty sure they also loan those out at auto parts stores.  And if it turns out your engine is tired, it's a great excuse to swap in a 3.0 H6.

 

When you said 47 miles, I thought that was the length of each lap.  Even the Nurburgring isn't that long, lol, dunno what I was thinking.

[pontoontodd]

Yeah, there are pro's and con's to investing in a trailer.  But when doing any sort of offroading, there is an extremely high likelihood that you'll break something.  So if the cost of just three tows is the price of a trailer, which you can always sell and get your money back out of, it's a decent investment, if only for the peace of mind.  I went without having a trailer til just last summer.  But even though I will only use it maybe five times a year, it's sure handy to be able to just throw a car on it and go.  Plus... trailer brakes are nice, especially when your tow vehicle throws a fan belt and you lose both power brakes and steering.  Ask me how I know, lol.

 

It could definitely have been the radiator cap.  But have you done a compression test recently?  If not, you can borrow the tester kit from most auto parts stores, or pick one up for $20 at Harbor Freight.  But even if you have good compression, you could still have a leak.  There's another method where you remove your rad cap and stick this thingy full of fluid in its place.  If the fluid changes color, you have compression leaking into your cooling system.  Pretty sure they also loan those out at auto parts stores.  And if it turns out your engine is tired, it's a great excuse to swap in a 3.0 H6.

 

When you said 47 miles, I thought that was the length of each lap.  Even the Nurburgring isn't that long, lol, dunno what I was thinking.

 

We've never had to tow any of our Subarus home after years of beating on them offroad.  Again, not saying it won't happen, just doesn't seem to happen often to us.

I will see if I can borrow the tester that goes on the radiator from a parts store.  I have compression and leakdown testers but they would be a PITA with this engine.

I do keep thinking about the H6 swap but I think if the engine came out I'd just do rings, bearings, head gaskets, and get a low end profile ground on the cams.  At this point I'm just waiting and saving for a third gen OB so I could get the H6 and bolt on wheel bearings.

Each lap is about 47 miles long.  The race is five laps, so almost 250 miles.

[Uberoo]

We've never had to tow any of our Subarus home after years of beating on them offroad.  Again, not saying it won't happen, just doesn't seem to happen often to us.

I will see if I can borrow the tester that goes on the radiator from a parts store.  I have compression and leakdown testers but they would be a PITA with this engine.

I do keep thinking about the H6 swap but I think if the engine came out I'd just do rings, bearings, head gaskets, and get a low end profile ground on the cams.  At this point I'm just waiting and saving for a third gen OB so I could get the H6 and bolt on wheel bearings.

Each lap is about 47 miles long.  The race is five laps, so almost 250 miles.

There are certain failures offroad that can't be planned for, that require vehicles to be towed home.The very same day that the pic in my sig was taken I blew up the engine in my hatch,and while towing it home the rear diff grenaded  on a steep/narrow mountain road. Ive also had lug nuts come loose and shear off all the lugs.Ive blown 2 tires when I only had a spare,etc.Its alot less fun to hike 30 miles back home than it is to hike 3 miles to your tow rig.

[Cyfun]

There are certain failures offroad that can't be planned for, that require vehicles to be towed home.The very same day that the pic in my sig was taken I blew up the engine in my hatch,and while towing it home the rear diff grenaded  on a steep/narrow mountain road. Ive also had lug nuts come loose and shear off all the lugs.Ive blown 2 tires when I only had a spare,etc.Its alot less fun to hike 30 miles back home than it is to hike 3 miles to your tow rig.

 

Exactly this.  Hell, doesn't even have to be anything serious.  Two flat tires will do the trick nicely.  Or more common with our cars, CVs will esplode, or radius rods will get bent.

 

Not to mention that if you drive or flat-tow your offroad rig somewhere, you're putting that much more wear and tear on your tires, wheel bearings, axles, diff, and so forth.  And it's not so bad with our cars, but a set of tires on a lifted offroad rig can cost more than a whole trailer, which is why many folks who own such vehicles avoid driving them on pavement more than necessary. Plus, trailering makes it easier to get away with welding your diff.

[pontoontodd]

Working on replacing the RR knuckle we had to repair in TX.  I had another one from a parts car that to my knowledge was not abused at all.  It had a small crack in it at the base of the strut mount just like all of mine did.  Ground it out and welded it up.  Got the old one off the car which was a PITA since the long bolt had rusted into the front bushing.  I know I've had it out before and anti seized it but I still wound up wrecking the bolt getting it out.  So I'm waiting for one of those.  Anyone know of a stainless and/or high strength replacement for those?  Or some other solution, such as RTVing that central pocket so it won't rust as quickly?

 

Got this scissor jack from Harbor.  It's 2.5 ton and meant for leveling trailers.  Relatively light, fast and low effort and lifts about 24", more than enough even with the long travel.  Can use a cordless impact for more speed, it's even 19mm hex like the lug nuts.  Just have to find a good place to put it in the car and do something with the top and bottom pads.

 

 

I got a dust cover for the bottom of the bellhousing from the dealer for $7.  Unfortunately there is a giant window in the bottom of it???

 

 

 

So I cut, bent, riveted, and RTVed a piece of aluminum sheet metal on the bottom of it.  Not pretty but it should keep the grass out.

 

 

It also doesn't cover the notches in the engine block on either side of the flywheel.  So I RTVed those too after I bolted it in.  Here is a bad picture of it installed.

 

 

While we had the trans out we made a scattershield for the trans from 1/8" 4130.  They don't care in TX but we'll need it for BITD (Vegas to Reno).

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Uberoo]

Shouldn't the scatter shield be covering the parts most likely to blow up?Namely the flywheel and the clutch. Your scatter shield needs to curve up the firewall, and or, angle toward the engine to be effective. Or do tailshafts have a habit of blowing up and no one has bothered to tell me yet?Cool looking just seems like useless added weight without covering the parts most likely to blow up.

[pontoontodd]

Shouldn't the scatter shield be covering the parts most likely to blow up?Namely the flywheel and the clutch. Your scatter shield needs to curve up the firewall, and or, angle toward the engine to be effective. Or do tailshafts have a habit of blowing up and no one has bothered to tell me yet?Cool looking just seems like useless added weight without covering the parts most likely to blow up.

 

Yes, it would make more sense to me to cover the flywheel and clutch.  They want it covering the part of the trans with gears.  I have never heard of the gears in a Subaru trans exploding but those are the rules.  Also, it's hard to tell from those pictures but it does go forward to the firewall.