long travel Outbacks or making Subarus faster and more reliable offroad

[ferp420]

That vagas to reno race would be brutal in that rig the woops alone would beat the ever living isht out of you and your car im dragging my belly on the tops of the woops with 5" lift and 30" tires last week one woop caught me off gard and blew the spring purch clean off the shock out in the middle of the desert and I wasent racing just exploring you might want to do a little prerunning out here before you try to race the terrain in the Cali Nevada arizona desert Isent like any were else in the world I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't just know what your getting in to I've been through a lot of the area out there in a outback its fun but the desert is.hard on rigs one bad bounce and your car is folded in half ask me how I know and there's no flat towing after that your trailer /junkyard bound so just check it out before you try racing through the area

[pontoontodd]

That vagas to reno race would be brutal in that rig the woops alone would beat the ever living isht out of you and your car im dragging my belly on the tops of the woops with 5" lift and 30" tires last week one woop caught me off gard and blew the spring purch clean off the shock out in the middle of the desert and I wasent racing just exploring you might want to do a little prerunning out here before you try to race the terrain in the Cali Nevada arizona desert Isent like any were else in the world I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't just know what your getting in to I've been through a lot of the area out there in a outback its fun but the desert is.hard on rigs one bad bounce and your car is folded in half ask me how I know and there's no flat towing after that your trailer /junkyard bound so just check it out before you try racing through the area

 

How does it compare to some of the videos I've posted, like in Kentucky?

Any pictures or videos of particular rough sections in Nevada?  Just trying to see what we're up against.

Like I said, one guy we talked to in Texas said the V2R is much smoother than the course we were on down there.  I've talked to other people who thought parts of it would be rough in our car but that we could make it.

[ferp420]

I dont know the coarse they run these days its been 30 some odd years since I've been any were neer that race but Non of your video are any thing like what we have going on out here and seeing and reading the points your struggleing with are mostly what your gona find out here I'll get some pics and video of what's out here I'm not saying you can't make it or shouldn't try it just run it first and see what your getting in to 400 miles is a long run off road in one of the harshest environments on earth in my opinion you are not set up to race out here and with out a low range the hills will eat you bring spare clutch disks it really comes down to the coarse they run it might not be to bad if its more of a rally then you would be fine but if its across open desert well I have herd a story about a roo finishing the Baja 1000 but there's a reason subarus aren't out there

[pontoontodd]

I looked into long distance towing and I could get the Subaru towed back from just about anywhere in the US to my door for about $600.  We spent more than that in fuel in our truck getting to Texas and back.  It would be inconvenient but far cheaper to get it towed back from somewhere than buy, fuel, maintain, license, and insure a tow rig and trailer.

 

Finally took a picture of the knuckle that the interstate did some grinding on.  This is after our repair in Texas, which held up for a couple thousand highway miles and about fifty miles offroad.  Swapped it out with a different knuckle when we got home.

 

 

Also, that HF scissor jack folded while jacking up the car the other day:

 

[Cyfun]

A Harbor Freight product broke?  What're the odds?

[pontoontodd]

A Harbor Freight product broke?  What're the odds?

 

100% apparently.

I thought since it's rated for 2.5 tons and the front of the car is about 1 ton I'd be safe, but no.

[pontoontodd]

Here is a short video I put together of parts of the fifty mile course in Texas.

 

[pontoontodd]

Our friend who knows a lot about rally cars thinks our overheating problem is airflow related.  He says when the front bumper cover gets ripped off the car will usually overheat.

 

Here is what the front end looked like before:

 

 

We decided the stock bumper support and the HIDs were blocking a lot of airflow so we should move them.  The bumper support was really just a place to screw the plastic bumper cover to when I'm driving around town.  We drilled out the spotwelds to remove that.  We can just weld some posts on the square bumper to remount the plastic bumper later.

 

 

There was just enough room under the stock headlights for the HIDs.  Pattern is still good.

 

 

The next step was making an air dam to keep the air from spilling under and around the sides of the radiator.  This is before we peeled the covering off so you can see what it looks like.  There is a strip of black rubber molding around the edge so it doesn't cut into the condenser.

 

 

Here's what it looks like now.

 

[Cyfun]

Might not hurt to put a couple pusher fans on the front.  You just running the stock fan right now?

[pontoontodd]

Might not hurt to put a couple pusher fans on the front.  You just running the stock fan right now?

 

We talked about that, not sure how much it would help.  Yes, just the stock fans right now.  They seem to be working but their speed isn't very impressive.  Are there any fan upgrades I should look into?

[krazykasper11]

I've enjoyed reading your build and looking to do similar things with my 97. what i dont quite understand is how you got a lift other than maybe having longer struts. I'm wanting to do a two inch lift and some bigger tires but that has to wait till i can get the bushings replaced on the front control arms. i just recently replaced the motor due to headgasket failure and throwing a rod (proof that you can blow up a subaru) and also needing a new tranny mount.

 

also where at in texas was this? I'm looking for places to go mudding a wheeling near east texas and havent had much luck.

[pontoontodd]

I've enjoyed reading your build and looking to do similar things with my 97. what i dont quite understand is how you got a lift other than maybe having longer struts. I'm wanting to do a two inch lift and some bigger tires but that has to wait till i can get the bushings replaced on the front control arms. i just recently replaced the motor due to headgasket failure and throwing a rod (proof that you can blow up a subaru) and also needing a new tranny mount.

 

also where at in texas was this? I'm looking for places to go mudding a wheeling near east texas and havent had much luck.

 

The easiest way to get a 2" lift is just to add strut spacers.  They're easy to make or you can buy them.

 

The car right now isn't lifted much more than that.  We've made completely new struts and front control arms.  The focus was more on increased wheel travel, strength, and ride quality than lift.  That all starts here:

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/144953-99-outback-build-advice-wanted/page-4?do=findComment&comment=1268549

 

The race in Texas was at a private ranch.  They only allow race cars and trucks on the course during that weekend.  I know there are some off road parks in Texas, there is a soft roader club that goes to them occasionally, a bunch of them have Subarus.  Otherwise check out

http://www.riderplanet-usa.com/atv/trails/texas_list.htm

They list which parks allow 4x4 / street legal trucks, how big they are, what kinds of trails, etc.

Edited February 18, 2016 by pontoontodd

[Cyfun]

We talked about that, not sure how much it would help.  Yes, just the stock fans right now.  They seem to be working but their speed isn't very impressive.  Are there any fan upgrades I should look into?

 

You might double check the stock fan's wiring and make sure they're getting all the juice they should.  I know Subarus are notorious for the headlights becoming dim due to poorly designed headlight wiring.  Nothing beats just hotwiring your fan directly to the battery and seeing if it performs any better.

 

I've heard nothing but bad things about the cheap ebay radiator fans.  Actually put an aluminum racing radiator on an old Buick I had cause it was cheaper than a factory replacement radiator, and it came with electric fans.  So I deleted the water pump fan and installed those fuckers.  Damn thing kept overheating.  Thought it was an engine issue since the 455's tend to run hot, and I replaced the rad immediately after getting the car.  So I eventually sold the thing.  But a few months after doing so, was talking to a guy at a radiator shop who said the electric ebay fans suck (no pun intended) and only put out like 500cfm, whereas a water pump driven fan is like 4000cfm.  Makes me wish I'd kept the car, put the factory fan back on, and put the electric fans on front as pushers.

 

You can find decent electric fans, though.  Just gotta do good research.  And to be honest, even a couple shitty ebay fans would probably be a small improvement since you still have your stock fan.  But I've heard a lot of people like to track down OEM electric fans as they tend to pump out resonable CFM.  They said to track down Thunderbirds and Tauruses, I believe, as they have this bigass single fan with a dual stage motor.  Dunno if it'd fit your radiator or behind that honkin bumper, though.

 

If nothing else, you might sawzall some vents in the back of your hood.

[pontoontodd]

You might double check the stock fan's wiring and make sure they're getting all the juice they should.  I know Subarus are notorious for the headlights becoming dim due to poorly designed headlight wiring.  Nothing beats just hotwiring your fan directly to the battery and seeing if it performs any better.

 

I've heard nothing but bad things about the cheap ebay radiator fans.  Actually put an aluminum racing radiator on an old Buick I had cause it was cheaper than a factory replacement radiator, and it came with electric fans.  So I deleted the water pump fan and installed those fuckers.  Damn thing kept overheating.  Thought it was an engine issue since the 455's tend to run hot, and I replaced the rad immediately after getting the car.  So I eventually sold the thing.  But a few months after doing so, was talking to a guy at a radiator shop who said the electric ebay fans suck (no pun intended) and only put out like 500cfm, whereas a water pump driven fan is like 4000cfm.  Makes me wish I'd kept the car, put the factory fan back on, and put the electric fans on front as pushers.

 

You can find decent electric fans, though.  Just gotta do good research.  And to be honest, even a couple shitty ebay fans would probably be a small improvement since you still have your stock fan.  But I've heard a lot of people like to track down OEM electric fans as they tend to pump out resonable CFM.  They said to track down Thunderbirds and Tauruses, I believe, as they have this bigass single fan with a dual stage motor.  Dunno if it'd fit your radiator or behind that honkin bumper, though.

 

If nothing else, you might sawzall some vents in the back of your hood.

 

Thanks for the advice, I was already thinking along those lines.

 

I never realized until I recently read in a different thread that the Subaru fans are two speed.  Should have been obvious from the wiring.  Of course they never run now that we're back home in freezing temps but when they were both working they seemed pretty slow, I'm guessing they were not running on high.  I looked over the wiring diagram and played with an extra set of fans I have.  My plan is to wire a separate fuse and 4PST switch straight from the battery in parallel with the stock wiring.

 

There are some high quality, high output aftermarket fans that we've used on other things, and they're not too expensive.  I have also heard that the OEM electric fans are generally more output and more reliable than the aftermarket fans, which makes some sense.  The OEMs probably put more R&D in and they have to last hundreds of thousands of miles.

 

I did also think about putting some vents in the hood.

[pontoontodd]

I almost bought a high lift jack but they are big, heavy, potentially dangerous, the base is small, hard to use on any car, etc.  So I decided to make the HF scissor jack work after not being able to find anything else I liked.

 

The failure before was from the teeth at the bottom of the arms slipping past each other.  They are probably too narrow, but part of the problem is that the base distorted and allowed them to skip past each other. 

 

 

I'd wanted a larger base before it failed, so I made a new one.  The top was not very good either so I made a new top also.  I cut a few plates with teeth to weld to the arms.

 

 

 

 

This is what it looks like welded and painted.

 

 

We made it bolt to the backside of the spare tire mount using the same two bolts.

 

 

Since that had been cantilevered off the cage and the spare flexed around a bit while driving, we added a tab to the jack that bolts to a bracket we made on the fuel cell mount to stiffen it up.

 

 

[pontoontodd]

Went through the struts after we got back from Texas and changed the valving a little.

The main issue I found with most of them is that the bushings had slid down in the strut housings, so I added some screws right below them to prevent that.

 

 

We've had to replace all the wheel bearings on the Outback at least once, some of them twice, and it's very time consuming.  The front wheel bearings were both a little loose.  I got a pair of front spindles for a 2005 OB with bolt on wheel bearings and they seem to fit perfectly.  The ABS sensor is totally different but that's long gone on my car.  I did have to turn up some spacers for the CV joints (probably because I don't have the ABS rings) but the splines fit.  The 05 spindles look stronger to boot.  While they were off the car we took the wheel bearings and ball joints out and antiseized them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

We'll still have to at least partially disassemble the suspension to replace the wheel bearings, but it should be a much easier job.  In the short run the knuckles and bearings cost about the same as getting new bearings, seals, and hubs for the original knuckles and they're not sloppy yet.  Also, I've got the original ones for spares.

[Cyfun]

That's what I love about Harbor Freight:  it may be cheap crap, but if you weld a few reinforcements on something, it'd be indestructible.  And it helps that they sell a $90 welder.

 

Are the fans 2 speed?  I thought there were just two fans, and one would kick on with a thermal switch, and the other kicked on with the AC.  Guess it'd be easy enough to tell by looking at how many wires are going to each fan.  Although some cars have the speed limiting resistor somewhere up the line.  Like I said, nothing beats just connecting a fan directly to the battery and seeing if it goes faster.

 

I was serious about cutting holes in your hood, too.  Dunno how much you're in love with your bodywork, but aside from a few vent holes, some

might help your car to go faster.

[pontoontodd]

That's what I love about Harbor Freight:  it may be cheap crap, but if you weld a few reinforcements on something, it'd be indestructible.  And it helps that they sell a $90 welder.

 

Are the fans 2 speed?  I thought there were just two fans, and one would kick on with a thermal switch, and the other kicked on with the AC.  Guess it'd be easy enough to tell by looking at how many wires are going to each fan.  Although some cars have the speed limiting resistor somewhere up the line.  Like I said, nothing beats just connecting a fan directly to the battery and seeing if it goes faster.

 

I was serious about cutting holes in your hood, too.  Dunno how much you're in love with your bodywork, but aside from a few vent holes, some

might help your car to go faster.

 

We talked about all kinds of different alternatives, including making a screw/scissor jack.  It seemed like making the HF jack work was the best option.

 

Yes, the fans are two speed.  They are controlled by the ECU.  There are three pins on the connector, one for ground and the other two for power.  They go to two pairs of wires on each fan.  I assume these power two sets of windings.  If you power one pair the fan spins, power both pairs and it spins much faster.  I tried it on the car and they definitely look like they're spinning much faster than they were in Texas when I have power going to all hot leads.  Just have to clean up the wiring and I'll post some pictures.

 

I'll consider the speed holes if it still runs hot, but I'm hoping we have it under control now.  I might make them in a slightly more controlled fashion though...

Edited April 7, 2016 by pontoontodd

[Cyfun]

Another thing common to offroading soobies is that the radiators tend to easily get clogged with mud and dust.  I had some overheating issues for a while until I spent an hour hosing out the fins from both sides.

[pontoontodd]

Another thing common to offroading soobies is that the radiators tend to easily get clogged with mud and dust.  I had some overheating issues for a while until I spent an hour hosing out the fins from both sides.

 

I blast the radiator every time I take it to the coin op carwash.  Try to get between the condenser and rad but that's difficult.  The water was definitely brown for a while at first when I went after Texas.  I'll probably try to do that again before we go.

[pontoontodd]

I picked one of these up at a junkyard in town out of a Chevy van:

 

 

 

 

Appears to be a centrifugal air filter with a dust trap on the bottom.  If nothing else the filter is about twice the area of the Subaru panel filter.

 

 

Made room for it by removing more of the ABS and the stock airbox.

 

 

It just fits.  I was able to tweak the sensor bracket on the strut tower and bolt it to that and added another mount where the ABS module was.  Got a silicone hose adapter to get the MAF sensor closer to the engine and turned up an adapter to mate the MAF sensor to the Chevy airbox.  The intake is pretty high in the engine compartment but pointed slightly down.  Made a splash shield so the tire doesn't fill it with water.  The air also has to flow slightly uphill so I'm hoping it works well in water and dust.

 

 

[Cyfun]

I wonder if an H6 radiator would fit...

[pontoontodd]

I wonder if an H6 radiator would fit...

 

What is different about it?

[pontoontodd]

Wired a switch in parallel with the stock wiring to force both fans on high.  Spliced four separate wires into the fan side of the connectors for the hot leads.  Probably should have done the grounds while I was at it.

 

 

This is what it looks like shrink wrapped, wire loomed and tied in place.  Used a big 40A inline fuse right off the battery.

 

 

Ran two wires from the fuse to this four pole single throw switch.  All of those leads are wired together.  The four going to the fans are kept separate so the ECU can do its magic with the switch off.

 

 

The radio and CB both died a while back.  We had replaced the CB a few weeks ago.  I got a new radio/head unit so I put that in while the console was apart and I was playing with wires.  This is the old aftermarket stereo wiring.  I think I hear baby Jesus cry every time I see it.

 

 

My wiring for the new stereo.

 

 

This is what the switch looks like installed.

 

[pontoontodd]

Our drive down to Texas went fairly well this time.  As we were getting to the ranch our truck was reading 15V, it's normally 13 or 14 while running.  We had to stop at the gate and then the truck wouldn’t start.  We push started it with the Subaru (towbar attached).  I removed the starter and tested it with another battery to see that it was good.  The battery in the truck read 13V but when under a load it dropped to 5V.  We took that and the alternator to Autozone in Odessa.  They tested the alternator and it passed.  I bought a new battery and that fixed the truck.

 

Racing Sunday consisted of a 150 mile race from roughly 8AM to 1PM and another 150 mile race in the opposite direction on the same course from about 3PM to 8PM.  This was the same fifty mile loop we ran on in January.  That is a 30mph average speed, normally desert races give you enough time to finish with a 25mph average speed so we had to push the car a little harder than we'd normally have to.

Sunday morning we got up before 6AM and checked fluids and went to line up for the race.  I drove the Subaru the first lap.  They have an unlimited class (class 1 and trophy truck), a water cooled four cylinder buggy class, a heavy metal truck class (frame rail trucks), and an air cooled buggy class.  They put us near the back of the heavy metal truck class.  We asked if we could start last in the heavy metal class but they already had the lineup for scoring and didn’t want to change it.  There were six or eight trucks in our class, Raptors, pre runners, etc.  While we were staged I realized we’d forgotten the gopros but by then it was too late to set them up. 
Just after the start I waited for the truck behind us to catch up (about a minute spacing at the start) and let him by.  After about ten minutes I turned on the AC and ran it for the first lap.  After we started the race I realized we’d forgotten to charge the AC so I told our friend to remind me to do that before the second race.  At first he thought I was joking.  We saw three or four entries rolled over and a couple others broken down on the first lap.  A few air cooled buggies passed us (they started last).  There was a red 80's Cherokee in our class which we eventually passed.  We were able to finish the first lap in about an hour and a half without pushing the car too hard so I figured we were running a good pace.  I had another friend drive the next lap.  He put in a good lap and we helped them switch seats for the last lap.  Our friend who had navigated the first two laps told us he was just going to take it easy on the last lap and try to finish.  That lasted about ten minutes and then he was going just as fast as we were.  Sounded like they got good air on a few of the jumps.  By this point the temps were occasionally creeping up so they had to cycle the AC on and off.  There was a Bronco pulled over at one point that they passed by.  Shortly after that they started seeing lights way back in the mirrors and figured the Bronco was going again.  Our friend decided he’d try to stay ahead as long as he could and then pull over.  They said it took quite a while and eventually it turned out to be a trophy truck.  A few turns after it passed them they saw it rolled over.  Occupants were OK so they continued on.  Later on we heard the guys in the trophy truck saw the Subaru and thought “we’ll pass him on this straight.  Wait, he’s going 85mph!”  We never saw much over 70 on the speedo but it did take them a while to catch the Subaru.  We finished the first race with 10 or 20 minutes to spare.

 

Here is the only picture I have so far, just the Subaru cruising through the pits.

 

We charged the AC in the Subaru.  I only had one can of R134a, which was almost enough to fully charge it.  Put on the gopros and added a little engine oil and PS fluid.

 

I drove the first lap of the second race also.  We were still running an hour and a half pace and everything was working great.  We switched drivers again for the next lap.  Near the end of that lap they texted us that one of the shocks was leaking so they were limping it back.  When they finished that lap we had just under two hours to finish the race. 
There definitely wasn’t time to fix the shock and finish the race.  We might have had enough time to put a stock strut on but it was likely to bend if beaten for two hours at anywhere near the pace we were running that day.  We decided our best option was just to drive it more cautiously and hope everything held up.  It was definitely a good thing the top of the strut mount is attached to the cage.  My friend drove and I navigated the last lap.  He put in a good lap about ten minutes slower than our normal pace.  By this point we could only run the AC about ten percent of the time or the temps would go up.  We finished the second race with ten or twenty minutes to spare to the excitement of nearly everyone there.  We had several people tell us they loved the Subaru and everyone we drove by seemed to be laughing, clapping, or giving us a thumbs up.

Later that night they had a meeting thanking everyone and giving out plaques for finishing.  When it came to the heavy metal class he said when he first saw this car, he thought the team should just leave it in the pits and not bother getting out on the track.  We went up to get our third place heavy metal truck plaque (probably because only three finished).

 

A couple of my friends wanted to go to Carlsbad Caverns and Guadalupe peak while we were in that part of the country, so we parked the truck and wound up putting at least 500 miles on the Subaru before we headed back.  The Subaru had an occasional shake in the steering but otherwise ran and drove fine.  It was still running a little hot, couldn’t run the AC.  They said the Whataburger and Denny’s were the only restaurants open at 11PM on a Saturday night, so we went to the Whataburger.  I’m pretty sure there was some kind of drug deal going down in the men’s room when I walked in and there was an armed security guard standing in front of the counter.  The car continued to run hot the whole time after the race, the first day we were cycling the AC on and off, by the end it was in the 80s and we were cycling the heat on and off (mostly on) to keep it from overheating.

Edited April 9, 2016 by pontoontodd