long travel Outbacks or making Subarus faster and more reliable offroad

[pontoontodd]

Sand question, what tire pressure you run when your stuck in the sand? If you drop your tire pressure way down you may drive right out, I've done a bunch of sand driving and will run as low as you can go without running off the rims, then air up when your back on hard ground , good story thanks for sharin

 

Way too high, probably around 50psi.  That's normally what I fill them to, they all leak after the Texas deal with all the thorns so usually if I check them every few weeks they're down to 30 or so.  We did think about airing down and even had a decent 12V compressor but decided to just get out of there.  Looking back on it I wish we'd have tried to air down to see how much it would have helped.  We've set the OB down with those mud tires at 0psi and they're only about halfway compressed, so we could probably get away with super low pressure.

Glad you liked the story, one of, if not the, best offroad weekend I've ever had.

[Scott in Bellingham]

One time at the dunes I rode with a old guy in his vw buggy, he ran 0 psi in the rear tires, that thing went everywhere, I'd start with 15-20 psi on the OB , as a kid we ran 3-5 psi in our Honda 3wheeler

[ferp420]

back in the day before beadlock became populor we used tire black rubber glue to glue the tires on to the rim so we could run extreme low tire presure it worked realy well and is a realy cheap every little bit helps

[pontoontodd]

Went through all the struts yesterday.  Replaced a few wipers and boots but these bushings are definitely working a lot better than the old ones.  One of the reservoirs had a big gouge on the inside of it for some reason so I'm going to replace that.  Otherwise everything seems good - wheel bearings, ball joints, etc.  One of the front control arm bushings that's in the aluminum bracket seems worn so I'll replace that.  Going to replace rear pads and shoes before V2R as they're fairly worn.  We took out the hose going to the rear heater and did find a hole in it near one of the driveshaft u-joints, so that explains that problem.  I also flushed the power steering system, the fluid was black and stinky.  The pump has been whining, even after the flush, so I put on another one from the junkyard and it is much quieter.

 

Here are some pictures from our UP trip.  It will probably be a while before I can edit the 10+ hours of video down to a reasonable length.

 

Bond falls

 

 

 

 

Pictured rocks:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Grand Sable lake overlook:

 

 

 

 

beach along Superior:

 

[pontoontodd]

One of the issues I've always had with this car is it intermittently running rough in wet weather.

For years this would happen fairly often, normally right when the engine got up to temp, turning off the ignition and restarting the engine would make it run smoothly again.

The problem has mostly gone away the last year or so.

On our trip to the UP a couple weeks ago it seemed to run rough every time we got it wet.  Eventually after some diagnosis we unplugged the front O2 sensor and it ran smoothly the rest of that weekend.  Got home and replaced the O2 sensor, it's been running fine including last weekend for another 700 miles on the highway. 

Today we had a huge rainstorm, car was parked out in the rain, and I drove the car as the rain was clearing up.  I drove through a big puddle and it started running a little rough, stalled at a couple of stop signs but still mostly driveable.  Stopped across town and when I got back in the car, it started but would barely rev above 2000RPM and I couldn't get it to move for a minute.  Then all of a sudden it ran fine.  A couple times on the way home it would start running rough, barely running for a minute or two, but ran fine most of the time.  A few hours later I went out to check and clear the codes, there were many considering we'd unplugged the O2 sensor.  Started it up and the engine will now barely run.  Sometimes at full throttle it will run at 1000RPM.  It seems to be pushing some oil smoke out the tailpipe.  Occasionally I can get it to rev to 2000-3000RPM and it seems to clear out and run smoothly (and smoke less I think), so I don't think it's a mechanical engine failure.  Now the only code that shows up is some sort of fuel temperature sensor circuit A, which has been showing up for a long time and might be related to the fuel cell install.  I tried unplugging the O2 sensor again and it still runs rough.  I don't even know where to start, any ideas?

[ferp420]

My first guess would be a distributer cap but your car dosent have a distributer check the plug wires for shorting out in the dark but more than likely its the coil pack look for spark jump at the coil pack while its dark while looking at the wires use dielectric greese on the connections I've gone through at least 3 coils on my 98 outback and 2 on my imp sometimes it through a miss fire code sometimes it doesn't

[pontoontodd]

My first guess would be a distributer cap but your car dosent have a distributer check the plug wires for shorting out in the dark but more than likely its the coil pack look for spark jump at the coil pack while its dark while looking at the wires use dielectric greese on the connections I've gone through at least 3 coils on my 98 outback and 2 on my imp sometimes it through a miss fire code sometimes it doesn't

 

Thanks for the ideas.  Friend of ours who works on a lot of Subarus also suggested coil pack first, I tried a different one that worked before and it still barely runs.  We put an ignition wire and spark plug on each terminal of the coil pack and grounded the plug while cranking and they all seem to be generating spark, although it's not very impressive.  Didn't see any sparking at all in the dark.  I guess I could still buy a new one, maybe both of the ones I have are bad.

We seemed to be getting good fuel flow and pressure at the engine, tried a used but good fuel filter and it still ran like crap.

We unplugged all the various hoses going to the intake before the throttle body, thinking maybe some kind of PCV is dumping shitty air and oil into the engine, taped off all the fittings to prevent vacuum leaks, and it made no difference.

Checked all the fuses and fusible link, all good.

 

Plugged into the OBDII and tried to do some diagnosis that way.

Still the only trouble code is the fuel sensor A circuit deal, even after unplugging all kinds of hoses and spark plug wires.  Is it possible the ECU has gone bad?

MAF, throttle position, RPM seem to read properly.  Front O2 is reading .9V most of the time, still smoking out the tailpipe.  I'm not very good with these things but it smells and looks more like smoke from burning rich than burning oil.

Any more ideas to try would be appreciated.

[Uberoo]

See if it runs better by disconnecting sensors one by one.If it is a sensor issue it will either run worse if its working correctly, or run better if its not because the bad sensor sends bad signals to the computer confusing it.

 

Also take a look at your sparkplugs,one or more injectors might be messed up and dumping fuel or running lean to where the other injectors pour fuel in the engine to make it run

 

Also, seeing as water seems to effect it check your fuel lines and anywhere else where water could possibly get into the fuel system.

Edited July 30, 2016 by Uberoo

[pontoontodd]

See if it runs better by disconnecting sensors one by one.If it is a sensor issue it will either run worse if its working correctly, or run better if its not because the bad sensor sends bad signals to the computer confusing it.

 

Also take a look at your sparkplugs,one or more injectors might be messed up and dumping fuel or running lean to where the other injectors pour fuel in the engine to make it run

 

Also, seeing as water seems to effect it check your fuel lines and anywhere else where water could possibly get into the fuel system.

 

Thank you thank you thank you!

I unplugged the injectors one at a time, each one made the engine run a little rougher with a noticeable lope/miss.

I unplugged the cam and crank sensors individually, both made the engine die.

I unplugged the MAF sensor and the engine immediately smoothed out and stopped smoking.  It doesn't run perfectly, tends to stall occasionally, but I drove it back and forth a little bit and it is ten times better.  A little weird since the reading from the OBDII seemed to steadily increase with engine speed, I guess I don't know what it should be at various RPMs and loads.  Also makes me wonder how the engine runs with no MAF signal and no manifold pressure sensor, does it just go off TPS and RPM?

I unplugged the TPS and the engine died.

 

So the next question, where should I get a replacement?  Is this one of those must buy from Subaru parts?  They want $315.  Rock Auto has them for $70-$280 depending on brand.  Or I could get one from a junkyard, I think there's at least one at the local pick a part yard.  Might do that either way to have a cheap spare.

[Uberoo]

The middle of the road ones from rockauto should be good, or you might get lucky and find some nice cheap spares at the pick a part.

It might be worth a shot to get some maf cleaner and clean out the sensor and see if that fixes it before spending the money for a new part-store or otherwise.

 

The engine can still run off preloaded maps from the O2 sensor or TPS without a maf. The computer uses those 3 sensors to fine tune the maps for optimum power/mpg I think anyway, I haven't actually seen the programming or fuel/ignition maps.

 

When a sensor is bad but still transmits data the computer gets confused because the values arn't typically on the standard fuel/igniting map,when the sensor is either disconnected or not transmitting the computer uses the standard fuel/ignition maps with reference to the other sensors at its disposal.

[pontoontodd]

Video from our last trip to the upper peninsula of Michigan:

 

 

The first jump is a local tabletop, everything else is in the UP.

Edited August 1, 2016 by pontoontodd

[Cyfun]

Excellent video!  Love the split screen and editing work.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how that thing soaks up bumps.  And with most long-travel vehicles being so high up in the air, it's really satisfying to see one with a low center of gravity.  If only we could get high-low transfer cases with good crawl ratios in automatic transmissions and mate them to H6's...

[pontoontodd]

Excellent video!  Love the split screen and editing work.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how that thing soaks up bumps.  And with most long-travel vehicles being so high up in the air, it's really satisfying to see one with a low center of gravity.  If only we could get high-low transfer cases with good crawl ratios in automatic transmissions and mate them to H6's...

 

Thanks, glad you like the video.

 

It really does ride as well as you could ever hope for a station wagon with 12" of travel.  I think the lower center of gravity helps with that, it really doesn't hobby horse or porpoise much at all.  There were a few sections where I found myself thinking I wouldn't be going much faster in our off road race buggy.  Except for that first jump in the video, you can hardly even feel the car land when it comes back to earth.

 

I'm with you 100% on the H6 and low range, more power would be great, especially in the sand.  Looking for a rust free 2005-2009 H6 OB right now and plan on making a low range over the winter.  Honestly with an H6 and the long travel I'm not sure you'd need low range.  At least for any of the stunts we've tried to pull within 1000 miles of home.

[AdventureSubaru]

Junkyard for the MAF - You can get 3-5 of them for a cost of a mid level aftermarket. Confirm that it fixes your issue and then grab a spare. They don't fail that often but can make the car go a little nuts when they do.

 

You're making me homesick with the photos of pictured rocks! Used to be a few times a summer I'd drive up either there or to the porkies for a long weekend of backpacking and such in my lifted Impreza. Miss those wild places but not the clouds of mosquitos.

 

Great build and great idea on an H6 low range. Toyed with that idea myself and would have been heading that way if I hadn't been gifted a dual range 4runner.

[pontoontodd]

Junkyard for the MAF - You can get 3-5 of them for a cost of a mid level aftermarket. Confirm that it fixes your issue and then grab a spare. They don't fail that often but can make the car go a little nuts when they do.

 

You're making me homesick with the photos of pictured rocks! Used to be a few times a summer I'd drive up either there or to the porkies for a long weekend of backpacking and such in my lifted Impreza. Miss those wild places but not the clouds of mosquitos.

 

Great build and great idea on an H6 low range. Toyed with that idea myself and would have been heading that way if I hadn't been gifted a dual range 4runner.

 

Ya, got a MAF from a local junkyard and put it in, car seems to run fine but haven't driven it much yet.  It will run with the new (to me) MAF plugged in and the TPS unplugged, but again not perfectly.  I'm going to get a can of that MAF cleaner from CRC and see if it fixes the old one.

 

Pictured rocks and Porcupine mountains are scenic, that beach we found along Superior was amazing, it would be cool to camp out there for a day or two.  Mosquitos and flies aren't too bad if you're riding a bike or driving a car, but they can be terrible when you're on foot.

 

Glad you like the build.  Maybe as soon as this winter we'll see what a low range and/or H6 does.  If anyone finds a good 2005-2009 H6 OB, I'm seriously looking for one for my wife and then one for me to replace the Impreza.

[Uberoo]

 we'll see what a low range and/or H6 does.  

It goes BOOM.The 5 speed manuals don't like the H6,the 6 speed might hold up to the power though.The DR 5 speeds eat transfer gears with stock ea81/82 power

[pontoontodd]

It goes BOOM.The 5 speed manuals don't like the H6,the 6 speed might hold up to the power though.The DR 5 speeds eat transfer gears with stock ea81/82 power

 

Good to know.  I'd been considering getting a six speed if I did the swap.  I can't imagine that breaking with a stock H6.  I'd be more concerned about the rear diff and axles then, especially if I had a low range.

[Uberoo]

the rear diff and axles should hold up to H6 power because only 1/2 of the power goes back there.so roughly only 115 hp,about the same as an ej18 driving the rear wheels.On my T cased hatch with an ej22 the rear axles held up fine in rwd, at least on the street.

[Cyfun]

Ya, got a MAF from a local junkyard and put it in, car seems to run fine but haven't driven it much yet.  It will run with the new (to me) MAF plugged in and the TPS unplugged, but again not perfectly.  I'm going to get a can of that MAF cleaner from CRC and see if it fixes the old one.

 

Pictured rocks and Porcupine mountains are scenic, that beach we found along Superior was amazing, it would be cool to camp out there for a day or two.  Mosquitos and flies aren't too bad if you're riding a bike or driving a car, but they can be terrible when you're on foot.

 

Glad you like the build.  Maybe as soon as this winter we'll see what a low range and/or H6 does.  If anyone finds a good 2005-2009 H6 OB, I'm seriously looking for one for my wife and then one for me to replace the Impreza.

 

What's a good price on an H6?  I see a few on craigslist here for $3000 to $4500.

 

Also, could you possibly have a JDM H6 front clip imported by someone like ForeignEngines.com?

[pontoontodd]

What's a good price on an H6?  I see a few on craigslist here for $3000 to $4500.

 

Also, could you possibly have a JDM H6 front clip imported by someone like ForeignEngines.com?

 

$3000-$4500 would be a great price for a rust free 2005-09 H6 Outback from what I can tell.  Let me know if you see another one.

 

I'd rather just buy an H6 car than do some kind of swap.  Plus I would like to have a car with a rust free body, bolt on wheel bearings, etc.

[Cyfun]

$3000-$4500 would be a great price for a rust free 2005-09 H6 Outback from what I can tell.  Let me know if you see another one.

 

I'd rather just buy an H6 car than do some kind of swap.  Plus I would like to have a car with a rust free body, bolt on wheel bearings, etc.

 

Wait nevermind, these are an 03 and an 04.  How do they differ from the new ones?

[pontoontodd]

Wait nevermind, these are an 03 and an 04.  How do they differ from the new ones?

 

Supposedly the 05-09 have more ground clearance and a lower center of gravity.  I do know they have bolt on wheel bearings in front from 05 to 09, up to 04 they were press in.  The spindles can be swapped over easily though.  I think the engines made more power and a little more torque too.

[Cyfun]

Supposedly the 05-09 have more ground clearance and a lower center of gravity.  I do know they have bolt on wheel bearings in front from 05 to 09, up to 04 they were press in.  The spindles can be swapped over easily though.  I think the engines made more power and a little more torque too.

 

Ahh gotcha.  Ya know, instead of an Outie, how about an XT6?  Or even an SVX?

[pontoontodd]

Ahh gotcha.  Ya know, instead of an Outie, how about an XT6?  Or even an SVX?

 

That would be cool.  I always wanted an XT, needless to say there aren't any left around here.  I have seen SVXs on the local CL pretty often, sometimes under $1000.  Surprisingly not much lighter than an OB.  A long travel SVX would be a real off road sleeper.

[Cyfun]

There's actually an SVX near me in pretty good condition for $750 OBO.  Has 220k miles, though, tranny is starting to slip, but has a bunch of new parts otherwise, including some really nice snow tires.  Insanely comfortable for a Subaru, I was impressed.  Kind of a crime to bastardize it into an offroad beast, though.  But hey, 220 horsepower with no turbo, AND a factory limited slip rear diff.  And I could swap in a 5 speed or another automatic for super cheap.  In fact, a guy in town has an 01 Forester that hit a deer, but has a good engine and trans, brand new clutch, new Optima Red Top, and new tires for about the same price.  So one could combine both, possibly swap Forester struts onto the SVX, and have an interesting ride for a little over a grand.