long travel Outbacks or making Subarus faster and more reliable offroad

[NorthCoast]

Now we're talking!  Any more pix/build thread/travel #'s?

http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/read.php?5,90684

 

20" travel

[Uberoo]

nothing with axles yet.

[pontoontodd]

Another good long travel fabricated suspension build that's got me thinking:

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/121735-wagonstien-taking-fully-independent-suspension-to-the-next-level/

[pontoontodd]

Got the car up on a lift and my mechanic friend told me it was definitely the rear pinion bearing.  Long story short, I wound up using an older ('90?) diff I've had laying around forever because it has 4.11 gears.  I knew the side gears were different so I swapped those out.  Two things I didn't know and have never seen online, the idler gears and pinion flanges are also different:

 

Older gears are on the left, one piece.  Newer on the right with a separate washer.  Seem to be the same size as the old ones with the washer but gear teeth are smaller since they are two piece:

 

I wound up using the older style ones since they seemed to have less play when assembled, plus the teeth are bigger.

 

 

More importantly, the pinion flanges have a different bolt pattern and pilot diameter, so I had to swap those (figured this out once the diff was in the car unfortunately).  Again, older style pinion flange on the left, newer on the right:

 

The car is nice and quiet now.  I can actually hear some wind and tire noise.

 

I also tightened up the rear parking drum adjusters so the parking brake actually works now.  It's so weak I doubt it would work well as a cutting brake though unless I change the leverage on the handles.

 

I have another question which I couldn't find the answer to online.  Is there some kind of test for the viscous center diffs?  I know they occasionally fail and lock up, do they ever fail and act as an open diff?

In my Outback I can easily turn the rear driveshaft with the rear wheels off the ground.  The Legacy I pulled a diff (which turned out to be a 3.90) and various other parts out of had a lot of resistance.  With a wrench on the bolts you could turn it but it was far more drag than mine.  After we pulled the rear diff, driveshaft, axles, etc out of the car one of the guys there hops in and drives it out of the shop, no signs of slippage or anything.  I didn't think that was possible with the viscous center.  Are there different center diffs?  Is there some amount of torque it should take to turn the rear driveshaft?

Edited March 21, 2014 by pontoontodd

[Gloyale]

In my Outback I can easily turn the rear driveshaft with the rear wheels off the ground.  The Legacy I pulled a diff (which turned out to be a 3.90) and various other parts out of had a lot of resistance.  With a wrench on the bolts you could turn it but it was far more drag than mine.  After we pulled the rear diff, driveshaft, axles, etc out of the car one of the guys there hops in and drives it out of the shop, no signs of slippage or anything.  I didn't think that was possible with the viscous center.  Are there different center diffs?  Is there some amount of torque it should take to turn the rear driveshaft?

 

Automatic or 5spd?

 

Automatics will drive perfectly fine with rear disconnected.  Front diff is driven by a constant geared shaft.....whereas the rear is coupled when needed through a Multiplate hydro clutch pack...........Automatics don't like driving with just the rear and a missing front axle.  that's hard on clutches.

 

5spds have a  more conventional "Differential" in the center......and will not drive with an axle out unless there is some serious torque bind........there are different strength viscous packs for them........most cars got either a 4kg or 8kg unit.....but up to 20kg is available.

[pontoontodd]

Automatic or 5spd?

 

Automatics will drive perfectly fine with rear disconnected.  Front diff is driven by a constant geared shaft.....whereas the rear is coupled when needed through a Multiplate hydro clutch pack...........Automatics don't like driving with just the rear and a missing front axle.  that's hard on clutches.

 

5spds have a  more conventional "Differential" in the center......and will not drive with an axle out unless there is some serious torque bind........there are different strength viscous packs for them........most cars got either a 4kg or 8kg unit.....but up to 20kg is available.

 

All cars are five speeds.  I saw them drive the 98 Legacy without a rear driveshaft, diff, etc with my own eyes.  They work on Subarus a lot and said they've done that before.

That car and my 96 Impreza have a significant amount of drag, say 10ft-lbs, to turn the rear driveshaft, while my 99 Leg OB spins freely.

[pontoontodd]

I tried the dual parking brake handle setup with disappointing results.  I think the rear parking drums are just too small to work as turning brakes.  Still considering hydraulic turning brakes.

 

Also tied the front bumper into lower radiator support, boxed in the tow bar points, and painted it.

 

Now that I've taken it off road a few more times, I'm really happy with the 1.5" lift.  It makes far more difference than I expected it would.  I would do it rather than getting mud tires if I had to choose.  It does well off road with the bumper covers on and all season tires now.

Edited April 1, 2014 by pontoontodd

[Gloyale]

I tried the dual parking brake handle setup with disappointing results.  I think the rear parking drums are just too small to work as turning brakes.  Still considering hydraulic turning brakes.

 

Also tied the front bumper into lower radiator support, boxed in the tow bar points, and painted it.

 

Now that I've taken it off road a few more times, I'm really happy with the 1.5" lift.  It makes far more difference than I expected it would.  I would do it rather than getting mud tires if I had to choose.  It does well off road with the bumper covers on and all season tires now.

 

They don't work as turning brakes......But do work very well if you get a rear tire stuck in the air spinning like crazy.  Stop first.......set the handle then PUNCH IT.

[pontoontodd]

We drove 600 miles to Rush Off Road in Kentucky this weekend.  Many more, steeper, and taller hills than we have around here.  If we did a lot of those types of trails I could see why you all want low range t-cases.  I'll put up some video and pictures soon.

 

We bent three Forester steel wheels.  Would I be better off with alloys?  Are other 15" steel wheels stronger?

 

Also, the Outback still runs rough when the engine gets wet.  It doesn't throw any trouble codes anymore and it runs well above 3000RPM and usually dries out in 5-10 minutes but it's a big pain.  Any ideas?

[ivans imports]

the twin ebrake only works on rear drum cars have it on my impreza works great

[Gloyale]

the twin ebrake only works on rear drum cars have it on my impreza works great

 

It works on any of em.

 

I have it on my GL in the front and was in my GFs old Forrester before we sold. 

 

It not a turning brake though.....cable just can't pull that hard and front of these cars are so heavy just plows and drags a back tire...........it's more of a traction aid when crossed up diagonal over a ditch or hump.

[pontoontodd]

video from our trip to Kentucky:

 

 

still interested in any advice on my wet electrical issue

[Gloyale]

video from our trip to Kentucky:

 

 

still interested in any advice on my wet electrical issue

 

The engine sits low, and the spark plug wells get water in them.

 

Di-electric grease coating on insides of plug wire tips. 

 

And then RTV on the "lip" of the spark plug boot where it goes into the head.....just lip on the outer.....don't get any into the wells or it can make removeing the wires and plugs very hard later.

[NorthCoast]

Holy crap...no wonder you're breaking/bending stuff! Way too fast. Looks like a fun place to wheel though.

[pontoontodd]

The engine sits low, and the spark plug wells get water in them.

 

Di-electric grease coating on insides of plug wire tips. 

 

And then RTV on the "lip" of the spark plug boot where it goes into the head.....just lip on the outer.....don't get any into the wells or it can make removeing the wires and plugs very hard later.

 

Makes sense, my 2.2 SOHC doesn't have this problem.  I'll see how the grease works.

 

Holy crap...no wonder you're breaking/bending stuff! Way too fast. Looks like a fun place to wheel though.

 

Some of those things I would have liked to go slower but that was the minimum speed to get up hills, etc.  You can see a few spots in that video where we didn't quite make it.  Also, in a few parts the engine was wet and made no power below 3000RPM so I had to keep the revs up.  Maybe over the winter I'll go dual range.

All that being said, we did ride the trails there for maybe 18 hours, bent three wheels and one strut.

[pontoontodd]

The engine sits low, and the spark plug wells get water in them.

 

Di-electric grease coating on insides of plug wire tips. 

 

And then RTV on the "lip" of the spark plug boot where it goes into the head.....just lip on the outer.....don't get any into the wells or it can make removeing the wires and plugs very hard later.

 

Thank you very much for this advice.  I did this and we went back to Interlake over the weekend.  As you can imagine by the name, there is a lot of standing water and the engine ran great the whole time, even after quite a bit of washing before we headed home.

[pontoontodd]

When we were in Kentucky we bent a strut.

 

Still drivable once we adjusted the camber bolt all the way positive.

 

When we got home I straightened it and braced both front struts.

 

Unfortunately one of them had no damping and the other wasn't great, so I replaced them with new ones that are not reinforced.

[pontoontodd]

I also upgraded the screw jack:

[pontoontodd]

When we went to Interlake we bent a control arm by hitting a huge rock over a blind hill.  We were able to straighten it out enough by running a strap to a tree in front of the car and backing up a few times.  Beefed up both of those when we got home.

 

Video from that trip:

 

[TheSubaruJunkie]

Yeah dude... I have no idea why you keep blowing out and bending your struts.

[pontoontodd]

A little video and some stills from our trip to the Badlands this past Saturday.  A good time as always.

[pontoontodd]

Haven't made many big changes to the car lately, did have to replace a bent rear strut.  I'm sure that shocks some of you.  Also bent the last Forester steel wheel that was straight, still haven't bent any of the "normal" black ones.  Minor thing but it made a big difference in cargo bouncing around vs staying put was a 4' x 6' elastic cargo net from Harbor Freight.  Simple, fast, and effective.

 

After breaking a few mirrors I finally found some folding Legacy mirrors, not exciting to most I'm sure:

 

Also did some corrosion repair on the driver's side strut tower.  Should have checked that when I did the passenger side.

 

Everyone who has driven both of these cars thinks the Impreza rides better, or at least doesn't bottom out as easily.  I do have winter tires on it vs the mud tires on the Outback, plus it has both swaybars which probably makes it harder to bottom out one corner, but I think the springing and damping must be stiffer on the Impreza.  Never replaced a spring or strut on the Impreza and it has over 250k on it now.

 

 

 

Getting ready for a big off road trip in September, so here are some more questions:

 

Lighting - Ideally I would get at least two 8"+ HID spot driving lights but I would really like to fit something where the grill used to be.  I could fit a 20 or 30" LED light bar but I keep reading they don't work as well as HIDs for long distance/spot use.

 

Navigation - We've used smart phone GPS a few times now and it works alright but I really want a bigger screen mounted in the car so I can glance at it while driving.  Leaning toward a tablet and USB GPS plug in.

 

Communication - I have a couple of old CB radios we might use but I was also looking into renting sat phones, this place rents them for $30/week:

http://allroadsat.com/iridium-satellite-phone-rental

I was also looking into HAM radios a bit.  We might have 4-6 cars/trucks on this trip so we might split up, at which point it might become impossible to find each other.

 

Extraction - so far we've relied on shovels, sand ladders, and mainly snatch straps.  I should really probably get a winch, but it would be nice to put it on either end (or side) of either car.  Has anyone here done something like that with just a short strap and some kind of extension cord/jumper cables?  Would a 3500# winch be enough for these cars or should I go 6000#?

 

Any thoughts / experience on any of those things would be appreciated.

[pontoontodd]

A few more things.

Do you know where I can get a harness/pigtail that plugs into the driver's side rear taillight for trailer wiring?  There's a loose six pin connector back there that I jumped into for now but I'd like to find the proper connector.

Should I be worried about the steering rack being loose on the driver's side?  It has been slopply, but not leaking, since I bought the car and is certainly not getting better.  I think I can get one from a parts car soon but I've heard it's a PITA to swap out the rack.

Interested in buying 15" standard steel wheels, 5 hole, 10 hole, or 14 hole.

Edited August 20, 2014 by pontoontodd

[pontoontodd]

[pontoontodd]

I recently noticed one of the rear subframe mounts was bent back and the captured nut was starting to pull out of the body.

 

 

I pulled the mount forward relatively straight with a come along, then removed it.

 

So I welded/bolted some tabs on the body to make a better mount.  The one towards the front of the car welds to a double seam in the body so it should be fairly secure.

 

New mount:

 

Did the same thing to the other side of the car to be safe, even though that side looked fine.