long travel Outbacks or making Subarus faster and more reliable offroad

[pontoontodd]

Had one of the mods change the name of this thread since I'm going to be building an H6 Outback in the next year or so, and a lot of that will overlap with this build (same front suspension, etc).

 

Sometime this winter I'll probably rewrite the first post with links to the long travel build, trip reports, etc.

 

I mentioned a few weeks ago my friend drove his Forester over and we started on head gasket replacement when we realized the bearings also needed replacement.

He drove my Impreza home in the meantime.  It's about a two hour drive and the trans was acting up a bit.  Lately it's been sticking in gear, especially second and third.  You have to mess with it and pump the clutch to get it out of gear sometimes.  It hasn't stayed in fourth for about a year and occasionally pops out of fifth now.

He had some King bearings drop shipped to my house.  The rod bearings seemed good but the mains had .003" clearance, about double the max the manual specs.  They also had no endplay.

My Dad and I tried the next set of  main bearings he had ordered from Rock Auto and they had about .002” clearance, so we oiled up, sealed and torqued together the bottom end. Over the next few days I intalled the piston pins and some other things on the bottom end. There is a steel coolant pipe that runs from the heater hose in the back of the engine on the drivers side down to the water pump. The small pipe coming out of it going to the throttle body looked pretty rusty so I suggested that he order one. He didn't, partially because it can take a week and a half to get parts from the dealer, also if you replaced every part of the engine as you go the repair would be ridiculously expensive.

My friend showed up Saturday morning.  He said the Impreza was pretty good until he got to town and then the trans started making a loud whining noise for about ten minutes and then went away.  We put the engine on the stand and finished assembling it.  It went in the car and on the trans fairly smoothly, we spent the evening hooking everything up. We had some difficulty installing the clutch dust shield until we had the engine jacked back up about 2”.  Once we had that installed and most everything hooked up it was about 10PM so we called it a night. I got up around 6AM Sunday and we got back to work. We hooked up the exhaust and spliced a new piece of tubing in the oil pan guard, welded that, filled up the engine with oil and coolant, and fired it up. It took some cranking before the engine had fuel and oil pressure and then it started.  Seemed to run smoothly and we didn't see any leaks. Drove it around the neighborhood a bit and when he pulled back in, there was smoke coming out of the hood. There was a small puddle of coolant by the rusty coolant pipe on the engine. We didn't think it was too bad so he headed out of town. By the time he drove through town the smoking was getting worse and the temperature was starting to rise and the check engine light came on.  He topped the coolant back off and drove back to my house. After a little looking we decided the leak seemed to be out the rusty pipe opposite the little welded on tab, so we couldn't just slide a piece of hose over it. We decided to just replace/bypass the rusty pipe. We used a piece of 5/8” heater hose and a tee we made out of some barbed fittings. Took an hour or two but seemed to eliminate the leaks, he headed back home around noon.  He said the coolant on the block eventually all evaporated off. Halfway home he cleared the codes and the check engine light didn't come back on.

[pontoontodd]

Rolled forward the odometer I'd picked up with the good trip odometer this morning.  First you take the clear and black plastic cover off.  Then you unscrew the five silver screws holding the speedo in from the back (white/printed circuit side).  You don't have to remove the face of the gauge.  I pulled out the part that slides in the side with the blue gear on it, but I'm not sure you have to do that.  I took out the two screws in the back too but that's unnecessary.  I popped the circuit board off the back, again you might not have to, but it's easy to take off and put on.  MiniTransAm gave me a little advice, mainly you have to pop the shaft out of the little tabs.  So here is the shaft popped out of the slots:

 

 

Turn the numbers to whatever you want, then snap the shaft back in.  When you do this it's a little tricky since you want to get the gears lined up axially (left to right in the picture) and turn them so they fully engage.  Hard to explain and the first time I put it back together the numbers didn't really stay put and I had to do it a couple times, but it's not too bad.

 

 

Maybe it would have been easier to swap this odometer reset mechanism onto mine instead.

[pontoontodd]

I shipped the tow bar, hitch, lights, safety chains, and camping gear to my brother in CA a couple weeks ago.  He bought a rust free 2002 H6 Outback with 226k miles on it a few weeks ago for $1600.  He had to clean out the IAC valve and the front bumper cover is broken up but other than that it seemed to run and drive well.  Last Thursday morning my wife dropped me off at the bus stop and I went to Ohare and flew to LAX.  Brother picked me up at the airport in the Outback.  We stopped for lunch at a Mexican restaurant and then went to the grocery store to stock up on food for the trip. I had him pop the hood with the engine running when we parked and the coolant was bubbling in the overflow bottle. He said it never leaked a drop of anything though, and I never saw anything leak on the entire trip home. Got back to his house. He and our friend bought a yellow 1973 super beetle that is of course also rust free and in pretty good shape.  He insisted we go around the block in it for old times sake (I used to own a 1972 super beetle about 20 years ago). After a few hundred feet I wanted to get out of that death trap. We hooked the cars together and did a test drive around the block and he watched me do some U turns and stops to make sure nothing was rubbing, etc. I left his house around 5PM PST and headed towards our friends' place near Phoenix. It took a while to get out of town but once I got on 10 I could cruise easily and steadily at 80mph most of the time. The trans downshifts violently, and at only about half throttle, so I was trying to keep it from doing that but it still downshifted often. The engine would be at about 3000RPM, then jump to 5 or even 6000RPM before the trans pulled it back down to about 4000RPM. One of the tires would occasionally chirp this was so hard. The engine would sometimes jump up in temp when idling at a stop but immediately drop back down as soon as the car started moving. I eventually figured out it was just slowly losing coolant, so every 200-300 miles I'd let it cool off and have to add about a quart. Got to Phoenix about 12:30 AZ time and went to sleep. In the morning they fed me a big breakfast of eggs, bacon, fruit, and banana bread. Then we cruised around town a bit, he showed me a few restaurants and hotels, and then stopped at a parts store to get coolant. I left their place maybe around 1PM. The drive up to 40 was fairly steep and I got about 12mpg on that tank, a lot of it going 40-50mph at half throttle to keep it from downshifting and trying not to push it too hard. Once I got on 40 it was easier going and I got about 18mpg the rest of the way home. I drove to Santa Rosa Lake State Park and set up the tent. The forecast I'd looked at showed lows in the 40s the whole time and route I'd be taking home, and it wasn't super cold when I went to sleep. Apparently it dropped below freezing because even with long johns, heavy socks, and a hooded sweatshirt I eventually got too cold to sleep. This was about 4AM so I figured it was time to hit the road. A few times that day I took little naps and would then add some coolant. Got past St. Louis late that night and stayed at a Super 8 in Staunton. The next morning I got up about 6AM, showered, had breakfast. Got on the road about 7AM and after a couple of hours of easy cruising I noticed some black things flying off the VW. Put on the flashers and pulled over. The LR tire lost about half its tread. Put on the spare and somehow lost the VW door key in the process. Fortunately the ignition key also works for the doors. Drove through Bloomington and stopped in El Paso to double check the lug nuts and everything else. Got home about 11AM.

 

 

 

 

Unhooked the Subaru and VW and unbolted the towbar mounts from the VW. Took me a couple tries to start the VW to move it. Drove the Subaru to the car wash and Farm and Fleet.  It's pretty fast, especially once it revs up and considering it's geared taller than the five speed cars I'm used to. Squats a lot under low speed acceleration. Some guy in a 70s Corvette pulled out in front of me and got on it. I pinned the Subaru and was almost keeping up with him until I realized we were going 80mph (downhill) and slowed back down.

 

Here's a few pix of my three Subarus and my friend's Forester after we rebuilt the engine.

 

 

 

 

 

For now my wife is driving the 2002 OB since her old car needs some work and is getting pretty rusty.  My plan is to get a nicer 01-04 H6 OB for her, then I will drive this white one or use it as an engine donor.  Trying to find an engine donor for the 99 or a slightly better driver for me also.  So I'm on the hunt for some 01-04 H6 Outbacks.  They seem the cheapest and most common six cylinder Subarus and they're pre CAN bus, so I figure it makes sense to switch the fleet over to that.

 

I put a small hose clamp on the overflow hose out of the radiator and that may have solved the coolant loss problem, but we haven't driven it enough to be sure.

 

The 96 Impreza's trans is really getting bad.  One thought is to take it to the off road park one more time and then pull some parts off it and scrap it out.  Another thought is to replace the trans and keep/sell it.  I'm also considering just putting it on CL as is and see if someone will give me good money for it.  The rest of the drivetrain seems good, it always starts and runs well, but I doubt it's worth much.  Thoughts?

 

What would be the best repair manual to get for the 01-04 H6 Outbacks?

[Numbchux]

delete double post

Edited November 22, 2016 by Numbchux

[Numbchux]

Good find! Keep an eye on the bubbling coolant. Might be early head gasket signs.

 

 

FYI, there's a TSB for the throttle position sensor that can cause rough shifting, even without throwing a code. I replaced it on mine, and it helped (although didn't solve the rough shifting).

11-80-06157652.pdf

Edited November 22, 2016 by Numbchux

[pontoontodd]

Good find! Keep an eye on the bubbling coolant. Might be early head gasket signs.

 

 

FYI, there's a TSB for the throttle position sensor that can cause rough shifting, even without throwing a code. I replaced it on mine, and it helped (although didn't solve the rough shifting).

 

I was assuming the head gasket(s) are leaking.  Going to check again sometime for the bubbling and see how the coolant consumption goes.  It wasn't overheating in 90F stop and go traffic in California, or towing the VW in 80F heat, so not something I have to worry about right away.  If I have to replace the head gaskets it was still a good deal.

 

Thanks for the heads up on the TPS.  The shifting isn't very rough when not towing.  If I keep this one for my own use we'll probably swap in a manual trans.  The check engine light did come on after I got it home, it still runs fine, but I need to see what the code is.

 

Just tried to get a donor/parts car on copart but it went up to $1050.

[pontoontodd]

Check engine light came on in the 2002 a couple days after I got home.  Code was for second gear ratio incorrect (they have a code for that???), so I assume something to do with the trans shifting abnormally.  Cleared it and hasn't come back on in the last few days.  I should try a TPS, do these things normally downshift at half throttle?  Seems like most autos require more throttle to downshift than this one. 

 

Small hose clamp on the overflow hose seems to be keeping the radiator full but we haven't put thousands of miles on it since then either.

 

I really need to get some kind of repair manual for this car.  The paper full FSM goes for $100+, digital is kind of inconvenient, and the reviews on the Haynes and Chilton manuals say they don't cover the H6.  Is there some other option?

[Cyfun]

Congrats on the new rig.  You really need to get a trailer, though, lol.  Sucks that it already has issues and needs trans work.  But then again, it's a good excuse to swap in a 6 speed, or maybe even a dual range 5 speed just to see how long it holds up to the power.  And once you sink a few hundred bucks into a head gasket and a tune up, bet it'll run like a bat out of hell.  And I'm curious just to see how well it does offroad without any lifting or suspension work, with all that low end torque.

 

That one at the auction in Helena was up to $1400 last I saw, but suddenly now it's down to $250, and there's still no auction date set, so I dunno what the hell is going on with it.

 

The H6 in Flathead is really tempting, especially since it's the VDC model.  If I can get the guy to come down on the price a bit, I might just go get it.  And I could stop and look at the one in Helena on the way.  Not that I really need more cars, but a well maintained H6 in the 3-digit range is hard to pass up.  And if all else fails, I can wait til there's a foot of snow on the ground and sell it, cause even with the miles, it still books for at least $2500.

[pontoontodd]

Congrats on the new rig.  You really need to get a trailer, though, lol.  Sucks that it already has issues and needs trans work.  But then again, it's a good excuse to swap in a 6 speed, or maybe even a dual range 5 speed just to see how long it holds up to the power.  And once you sink a few hundred bucks into a head gasket and a tune up, bet it'll run like a bat out of hell.  And I'm curious just to see how well it does offroad without any lifting or suspension work, with all that low end torque.

 

That one at the auction in Helena was up to $1400 last I saw, but suddenly now it's down to $250, and there's still no auction date set, so I dunno what the hell is going on with it.

 

The H6 in Flathead is really tempting, especially since it's the VDC model.  If I can get the guy to come down on the price a bit, I might just go get it.  And I could stop and look at the one in Helena on the way.  Not that I really need more cars, but a well maintained H6 in the 3-digit range is hard to pass up.  And if all else fails, I can wait til there's a foot of snow on the ground and sell it, cause even with the miles, it still books for at least $2500.

 

The 2002 isn't as bad as I probably made it sound.  It never overheats if the radiator stays full, and with a clamp on the overflow hose the radiator seems to be staying full.  Haven't checked for bubbles in the overflow but the head gaskets don't seem to be a problem yet.  The trans shifting hard is not very noticeable when not towing.  It definitely pulls harder than an EJ25, even though it's geared taller.  I'm also thinking a six speed eventually, one reason I'm not worried too much about the auto.  I think with similar gearing to the five speed cars, the H6 will be great off road.  It will get long travel when it goes off road.  I would also do a front bumper / rad support / oil pan skid and gas tank protection at a minimum before I push it hard.

 

At this point I'm looking for an H6 engine donor and a low mileage (150k or less) H6 car in good condition for my wife.  Appreciate the leads and offers to check out some of these cars.  Definitely let me know if you check out the one in Helena.  There are a bunch on CL and copart, and I've started to make a list of Subaru shops/car lots I've found.  Might have to wait a bit to buy another one though.

[pontoontodd]

I put the gauge cluster with the adjusted odometer reading in and the speedo, odometer, and gauge lights didn't work.  Not sure if that's something I did or it was bad to start with.

I super glued the arm that had busted off the trip odometer reset lever and put the original gauge cluster back together and in the car.  Everything seems to work, so hopefully that will last a while.

 

I had another thought after talking to one of my friends about the V2R.  One of the lowest, most critical parts of the car is the oil pan, and it's right in front and centered, perfect for bashing into a big rock when you're driving ruts.  We have an adequate guard on my car now but it seems like we need about 1" clearance between the guard and the oil pan or the engine moves enough to dent the pan.  So now you have 1" less ground clearance than the pan hangs down, plus the thickness of the guard.  I was thinking if we just raised the engine we could also raise the guard/skidplate and pick up some easy ground clearance and approach angle where it really counts.  Not sure how high we could go and still have the stock exhaust clear the crossmember, that would probably be the first limitation, easy fix there would be some spacers on the heads.  When we had my friend's engine all hooked up in his Forester except the engine mounts we were able to get it up at least 1".  With the exhaust off and the mount on the top of the bellhousing off it was easy to go up 2".  Thoughts?

[Cyfun]

Glad that H6's coolant issue seems to have been easily fixed.  I've heard nothing but good things about these engines.  Instead of going with a manual trans, have you thought about simply getting a high stall converter, like 3200rpm?  All that extra power is most useful when you can keep the motor at peak revs.  Would help negate the taller gearing, and and fight the bogging down on hills, deep sand, etc.  Could use it as an excuse to rebuild the trans, or maybe even swap in Forester 4.444 gears.

 

Always cracks me up when you go out of your way to replace a part, only to end up repairing the original one with bubblegum and paperclips.

 

I've often debated about raising engines for offroading to gain oilpan clearance.  There are two major downsides: raising the center of gravity, and the steeper angle of your front CV axles, the latter being the bigger concern.  The angle of your CVs will always be your biggest limiting factor.  All you can do to counter it is taller tires, but of course are limited there mostly by gearing.  But now that you have a car with more balls, that might allow you to squeeze on taller tires if you so desire.

 

It's definitely good to have some room between the oilpan and skidplate.  But remember that even if the skidplate hits the pan, sharp blows to the bottom of the plate will be translated to the oilpan with a more broader force, far less.  I would suggest simply making the skidplate thicker, reinforcing its mounts more, and engineering it to prevent flex under the oilpan.  Also, you can always reinforce the oilpan, or add a skid plate beneath it that mounts to the engine instead of the unibody frame.  Another consideration is the engine mounts, which between the engine twisting from torque, and bouncing around from hitting bumps, might also cause the oilpan to hit the skidplate.  So if you haven't already, perhaps some stiffer engine mounts may be in order.  Or even just rig up some tensile bracing of the engine to prevent it from moving downward more than a tiny bit.

[jf1sf5]

I have an 8mm aluminum skid plate made of Dural. Its bolted to the chassis with 7 bolts. I can hijack the front of the Forester 2 wheels off the ground without issues anywhere on the skid plate.

 

Few pics of the 1,59:1 low range conversion, DCCD and the skid plate :

 

http://www.forum4x4.org/threads/117587-Subaru-forester?p=2307266&viewfull=1#post2307266

Edited November 30, 2016 by jf1sf5

[pontoontodd]

Glad that H6's coolant issue seems to have been easily fixed.  I've heard nothing but good things about these engines.  Instead of going with a manual trans, have you thought about simply getting a high stall converter, like 3200rpm?  All that extra power is most useful when you can keep the motor at peak revs.  Would help negate the taller gearing, and and fight the bogging down on hills, deep sand, etc.  Could use it as an excuse to rebuild the trans, or maybe even swap in Forester 4.444 gears.

 

Always cracks me up when you go out of your way to replace a part, only to end up repairing the original one with bubblegum and paperclips.

 

I've often debated about raising engines for offroading to gain oilpan clearance.  There are two major downsides: raising the center of gravity, and the steeper angle of your front CV axles, the latter being the bigger concern.  The angle of your CVs will always be your biggest limiting factor.  All you can do to counter it is taller tires, but of course are limited there mostly by gearing.  But now that you have a car with more balls, that might allow you to squeeze on taller tires if you so desire.

 

It's definitely good to have some room between the oilpan and skidplate.  But remember that even if the skidplate hits the pan, sharp blows to the bottom of the plate will be translated to the oilpan with a more broader force, far less.  I would suggest simply making the skidplate thicker, reinforcing its mounts more, and engineering it to prevent flex under the oilpan.  Also, you can always reinforce the oilpan, or add a skid plate beneath it that mounts to the engine instead of the unibody frame.  Another consideration is the engine mounts, which between the engine twisting from torque, and bouncing around from hitting bumps, might also cause the oilpan to hit the skidplate.  So if you haven't already, perhaps some stiffer engine mounts may be in order.  Or even just rig up some tensile bracing of the engine to prevent it from moving downward more than a tiny bit.

 

Can you get a high stall converter for a 4EAT?  Can you get 4.44 gearing for them?  I'm super impressed it has an auto trans oil temp idiot light (which never came on while driving).  I prefer stick shift, especially over this thing's uncontrollable downshifting, if for no other reason you can push start the car and do other things not possible with an auto.  So it will probably eventually get a six speed, but I can see driving it with the auto for a year or so to see how it works.

 

Ya, what a waste of time getting that other gauge cluster and messing with the odometer when super glue was the solution.

 

I wouldn't worry about raising the CG by raising the engine.  It's what, 10% of the car's weight?  So you lift it an inch or two, the CG of the car goes up 0.1" or 0.2".  You make a very good point about the CVs though, they are nearly pulling out at full droop as it is with the long travel.  Thanks, for some reason I hadn't thought about that.

 

The oil pan guard we made for the car a year or two ago is two pieces of 1" x 2" rectangle tubing welded side by side with an 1/8" thick 4130 plate underneath them.  Pretty sure that's not flexing much.  The engine definitely moves around on the mounts, I think that's the main issue.  I did put in group N engine mounts a year or two ago which seemed to help, but it still seems like we need about 1" of clearance so the engine doesn't bounce off that guard.  We've thought about making a heavier duty oil pan and/or exhaust but I'd be worried about cracking the heads or block.

[pontoontodd]

I have an 8mm aluminum skid plate made of Dural. Its bolted to the chassis with 7 bolts. I can hijack the front of the Forester 2 wheels off the ground without issues anywhere on the skid plate.

 

Few pics of the 1,59:1 low range conversion, DCCD and the skid plate :

 

http://www.forum4x4.org/threads/117587-Subaru-forester?p=2307266&viewfull=1#post2307266

 

5/16" 2000 series aluminum is probably quite strong!  Keep in mind we're hitting big rocks at 40mph though.  There were a few things hidden in the silt we hit during that Vegas to Reno that popped the whole front end of the car off the ground a foot or two while going 30-40mph. 

 

How do you like the low range?  I might finally be getting one.

[Numbchux]

Can you get a high stall converter for a 4EAT?  Can you get 4.44 gearing for them?  I'm super impressed it has an auto trans oil temp idiot light (which never came on while driving).  I prefer stick shift, especially over this thing's uncontrollable downshifting, if for no other reason you can push start the car and do other things not possible with an auto.  So it will probably eventually get a six speed, but I can see driving it with the auto for a year or so to see how it works.

 

Ya, what a waste of time getting that other gauge cluster and messing with the odometer when super glue was the solution.

 

I wouldn't worry about raising the CG by raising the engine.  It's what, 10% of the car's weight?  So you lift it an inch or two, the CG of the car goes up 0.1" or 0.2".  You make a very good point about the CVs though, they are nearly pulling out at full droop as it is with the long travel.  Thanks, for some reason I hadn't thought about that.

 

The oil pan guard we made for the car a year or two ago is two pieces of 1" x 2" rectangle tubing welded side by side with an 1/8" thick 4130 plate underneath them.  Pretty sure that's not flexing much.  The engine definitely moves around on the mounts, I think that's the main issue.  I did put in group N engine mounts a year or two ago which seemed to help, but it still seems like we need about 1" of clearance so the engine doesn't bounce off that guard.  We've thought about making a heavier duty oil pan and/or exhaust but I'd be worried about cracking the heads or block.

 

Yep, I don't remember where I've seen them, but there are high-stall converters. And I was once told that any shop that can rebuild a converter can modify it for a higher stall.

 

And yea, 4.44 exists. Off the top of my head, I think most 4EAT Foresters are, but I'm not completely sure. If your car is an LL Bean car, the transmission is not unique to the H6. The VDCs got a different center diff (that's actually a diff, the car handles SO much better in the snow), but I've heard talk of swapping the VDC/VTD center diff housing onto regular 4EATs, and even into non-VDC cars.

 

 

Yep, raising the engine means raising the front of the transmission, which effects your axle angle. On an EJ, I'd be tempted to modify the pan to make it shallower and wider, but the H6s have a much different oil pan arrangement (cast aluminum upper with a very shallow steel lower pan) that would be difficult to modify. We put a Spectra oil pan on a car here at work, and the mechanic said it was noticeably thicker/heavier. I've been tempted to grab one of those for our car, not as a primary protection, but a last line of defense. 

[pontoontodd]

Yep, I don't remember where I've seen them, but there are high-stall converters. And I was once told that any shop that can rebuild a converter can modify it for a higher stall.

 

And yea, 4.44 exists. Off the top of my head, I think most 4EAT Foresters are, but I'm not completely sure. If your car is an LL Bean car, the transmission is not unique to the H6. The VDCs got a different center diff (that's actually a diff, the car handles SO much better in the snow), but I've heard talk of swapping the VDC/VTD center diff housing onto regular 4EATs, and even into non-VDC cars.

 

 

Yep, raising the engine means raising the front of the transmission, which effects your axle angle. On an EJ, I'd be tempted to modify the pan to make it shallower and wider, but the H6s have a much different oil pan arrangement (cast aluminum upper with a very shallow steel lower pan) that would be difficult to modify. We put a Spectra oil pan on a car here at work, and the mechanic said it was noticeably thicker/heavier. I've been tempted to grab one of those for our car, not as a primary protection, but a last line of defense. 

 

After a little searching, it looks like my 2002 OB 4EAT has a 4.11 FD.  So the 4.44 wouldn't be a big drop.  And first gear is pretty tall, 2.8 compared to the five speed 3.5.  Although the converter, especially a high stall, would make up for that to some degree.  I will do some trail riding with it before swapping in a manual trans.

 

My thought right now, especially for the 99, after the H6 swap, is to put in a 6 speed.  The one from the JDM Forester had the largest ratio spread.  If we made a 1.2:1 drop gear set to replace the center diff, it would have about 20% more reduction in first but 8% more overdrive in top gear compared to the current five speed.  Still considering making a taller sixth so we could make a lower ratio drop gear set.

 

I thought about a wider/shallower pan for the EJ, not sure it would be worth the effort.  Thanks for the tip on the Spectra pan, if my friend still has problems with his Forester pan I'll suggest that.

Edited December 1, 2016 by pontoontodd

[jf1sf5]

5/16" 2000 series aluminum is probably quite strong!  Keep in mind we're hitting big rocks at 40mph though.  There were a few things hidden in the silt we hit during that Vegas to Reno that popped the whole front end of the car off the ground a foot or two while going 30-40mph. 

 

How do you like the low range?  I might finally be getting one.

 

I don't rally my forester but drove in Morocco on sand dunes and hit a hidden rock. Did a nice "bang" on the skid plate but only slightly bent it.

 

I love the low range but mostly use it for crawling. With your bigger engines, I think that a standard forester 1,447:1 should be enough. And remember that you can shift from high to low on the fly, they have syncro rings ! But don't push too hard on them, they don't really appreciate...

[subnz]

Wouldn't lift it any more  (creates CV / axle issues)   just go slower with dual range box and a rear LSD and 4.44 diffs.

 

Once diffs are welded up it totally limits vehicle to running off road - and not on hard surfaces without issues. ie winding driveline up.

 

We were lucky in NZ as all manual Outbacks  were dual range till gen 4  (20% reduction  with 4.1 diffs)

 

The best transmission to get is one from an old 3rd gen GL - RX II   86 - 88   ie AWD dual ratio with centre locking diff and rear LSD - 

 

If you could get one (rare as hens teeth) , not sure what's  involved in hooking it up to an EJ engine because was originally behind an EA82T.

 

Far superior to a later VDC slush boxes  - all mechanical  - nice and simple - no electronics.

Edited December 2, 2016 by subnz

[Cyfun]

I've heard of Subaru drag cars having high stall converters. Not sure if there are any pre-made ones, but from what I understand, many transmission shops can modify just about any torque converter to have a different stall speed.  I would honestly rather have that than a stick shift and 4-low when offroading.  But a 6-speed with 4.44 gears might be just perfect.

 

If you're worried about skid plate clearance issues, consider that getting an extra inch or two of clearance out of the car might really not make that much difference when you nail a massive rock.  And if you do want more axle clearance, the only thing you can do is go with taller tires.  But of course to gain just an inch or two, you'd end up with MUCH taller gearing.  I think your best bet is to simply reinforce the skid plate to take a lot of abuse, and to secure the engine so that it isn't succumbing to inertia.

 

Numbchux gave me an idea, though.  He pointed out that if you lift the engine and trans straight up, that it'll probably pop your CVs apart.  But what if instead of lifting it straight up, you TILT the front up and the back a little bit down?  That would give you more oil pan clearance to the ground and  between the pan and skidplate, but still keep the trans output shafts at the same height.  Basically all you'd have to do is make some new motor mounts, maybe adjustable ones with slotted holes, drop the trans mount on the crossmember slightly, and massage the hood a bit since the engine is sitting up higher.  In the processes, you could possibly redesign  the vibration dampening bushings in the motor mounts to be stiffer.  Maybe make your own with some urethane casting compound.

Edited December 2, 2016 by Cyfun

[pontoontodd]

Wouldn't lift it any more  (creates CV / axle issues)   just go slower with dual range box and a rear LSD and 4.44 diffs.

 

Once diffs are welded up it totally limits vehicle to running off road - and not on hard surfaces without issues. ie winding driveline up.

 

We were lucky in NZ as all manual Outbacks  were dual range till gen 4  (20% reduction  with 4.1 diffs)

 

The best transmission to get is one from an old 3rd gen GL - RX II   86 - 88   ie AWD dual ratio with centre locking diff and rear LSD - 

 

If you could get one (rare as hens teeth) , not sure what's  involved in hooking it up to an EJ engine because was originally behind an EA82T.

 

Far superior to a later VDC slush boxes  - all mechanical  - nice and simple - no electronics.

 

In case you haven't noticed I'm not a big fan of going slower.  But a low range would definitely let us do that in some places where we have to use momentum now.  I am working on getting one right now, just not sure if/when I'll use it.

 

I've driven various cars with locked diffs, so I know what you mean.  It seems that our Subarus are generally power limited rather than traction limited when climbing hills and going through soft sand, so we haven't really even thought about limited slip differentials, lockers, welding diffs, etc.  It seemed like the Loyale I had with the center diff locked all the time was pretty noisy when parking, but my Outback was hardly noticeable when the center diff locked up.

[pontoontodd]

I've heard of Subaru drag cars having high stall converters. Not sure if there are any pre-made ones, but from what I understand, many transmission shops can modify just about any torque converter to have a different stall speed.  I would honestly rather have that than a stick shift and 4-low when offroading.  But a 6-speed with 4.44 gears might be just perfect.

 

If you're worried about skid plate clearance issues, consider that getting an extra inch or two of clearance out of the car might really not make that much difference when you nail a massive rock.  And if you do want more axle clearance, the only thing you can do is go with taller tires.  But of course to gain just an inch or two, you'd end up with MUCH taller gearing.  I think your best bet is to simply reinforce the skid plate to take a lot of abuse, and to secure the engine so that it isn't succumbing to inertia.

 

Numbchux gave me an idea, though.  He pointed out that if you lift the engine and trans straight up, that it'll probably pop your CVs apart.  But what if instead of lifting it straight up, you TILT the front up and the back a little bit down?  That would give you more oil pan clearance to the ground and  between the pan and skidplate, but still keep the trans output shafts at the same height.  Basically all you'd have to do is make some new motor mounts, maybe adjustable ones with slotted holes, drop the trans mount on the crossmember slightly, and massage the hood a bit since the engine is sitting up higher.  In the processes, you could possibly redesign  the vibration dampening bushings in the motor mounts to be stiffer.  Maybe make your own with some urethane casting compound.

 

You're probably right that another 1" clearance at the oil pan wouldn't make a lot of difference.  The guard we've had under the oil pan for a couple years now is pretty stout, the Outback's oil pan hasn't dented in a while, and with the new skidplate the exhaust should survive.

 

I like the idea of tilting the whole engine/trans.  I'll get under there with a tape measure this weekend and take a look.  I'm guessing the trans mount is at least twice as far behind the axles as the engine mounts are in front of the axles, so we'd have to tip the back of the trans down about 2" to shift the engine up 1".  I doubt we'd have hood clearance issues, but I suppose the accessories do come close to it, and if the whole thing is tilted they're going to be raised even more than the engine mounts.

[pontoontodd]

Any thoughts on my 96 Impreza?  The trans is really getting bad, my friend said it was making some loud whining noises for a little while, won't stay in fourth gear, and sticks in second and third gear sometimes.  The body is beat up, probably every panel except the hatch is badly dented, but not rusty (originally from CO), it's got about 250k miles, the 2.2 has been overheated but head gaskets don't seem to leak, timing belt and clutch replaced about 10k miles ago.  The only thing that doesn't really work is the AC, that's been converted to an air compressor.  It's probably the most reliable car I've ever owned, I can't think of a time I've hopped in after letting it sit for weeks and it hasn't just fired up and ran great.

 

Should I get a junkyard trans for a few hundred bucks and swap it in?  I figure we could do it in a weekend if it goes OK, wasn't too bad in the Outback, which is much rustier.  I could just see needing to replace some unexpected part and having it sit for a week or two, or breaking off some bolt and getting the trans halfway out.

 

Should I sell it for parts or as a beater?  I doubt I could get even $500 for it.

 

Should I part it out and sell it for scrap?  Suspension and the rest of the drivetrain seems good, just not sure what I'd use aside from the CV axles and possibly diff/driveshaft.  Maybe the rear suspension.

[Cyfun]

The best part about tilting the engine is that it would be really easy... in theory. Just unbolt the motor mounts, jack it up a bit and see how it sits, then move the mounts accordingly.  Might not hurt to have some way of indexing where the front axles sit.  Maybe rig up some sort of clamp or pieces of wood to show where it sits now.

 

As far as your Impreza, how attached are you to it?  Do you still use it that much?  If you don't use it, I'd say either keep it as a parts car/backup car, or sell it to some kid for $500.  And what would it sell for if it had a good trans?  Even if you save money by sticking a junkyard trans into it, might not really raise it's value that much.  Plus all the time you waste on labor swapping it out.  If you don't want to keep the car, your time would be better wasted on a car you're keeping, lol.

 

On the other hand, I've never rebuilt a trans, dunno if you have either.  If you wanted to pull the trans out, it might be good experience rebuilding one.  But again, you've probably got better stuff to do.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Cyfun

[pontoontodd]

The best part about tilting the engine is that it would be really easy... in theory. Just unbolt the motor mounts, jack it up a bit and see how it sits, then move the mounts accordingly.  Might not hurt to have some way of indexing where the front axles sit.  Maybe rig up some sort of clamp or pieces of wood to show where it sits now.

 

As far as your Impreza, how attached are you to it?  Do you still use it that much?  If you don't use it, I'd say either keep it as a parts car/backup car, or sell it to some kid for $500.  And what would it sell for if it had a good trans?  Even if you save money by sticking a junkyard trans into it, might not really raise it's value that much.  Plus all the time you waste on labor swapping it out.  If you don't want to keep the car, your time would be better wasted on a car you're keeping, lol.

 

On the other hand, I've never rebuilt a trans, dunno if you have either.  If you wanted to pull the trans out, it might be good experience rebuilding one.  But again, you've probably got better stuff to do.

 

After looking at it again, the engine/trans tilting doesn't seem like it would be worth the hassle.  The trans mount probably isn't twice as far behind the axles as the engine mounts are in front though.

 

My friend's Forester seems to be running well with the rebuilt engine, still no check engine light.  Just in time for our first snow yesterday.

 

The 2002 H6 OB doesn't seem to be consuming much coolant with the little hose clamp on the overflow hose.  Gets about 18 or 19mpg city and 23 or 24 highway.

 

We decided to pull the trans out of the Impreza yesterday.  Basically figured I'll need a car to drive while doing the H6 swap in the Outback, and this was the cheapest and easiest way to accomplish that.  Only took two or three hours.  Half of that time was spent cutting rusty exhaust bolts and that sort of thing.  Refabbed one exhaust flange that was rotted to nothing, tapped a couple of holes that were tight, and replaced a CV boot, so hopefully the replacement goes smoothly.  I found a couple within a few hundred miles that have under 150k miles on them for $200-300 bucks, so I'll probably get one of those coming today.  The pin in the shifter u joint type coupler is super sloppy, so I might order one of those from the dealer.  We could probably rebuild the trans, but at least one chunk of a bearing race fell out when we drained it, so I'm guessing it would need a couple hundred bucks worth of parts anyhow, and if we put it back together wrong it'd be a big waste of time.

[Cyfun]

So you're swapping the H6 into your long-travel outback, instead of upgrading the suspension of the H6 car?