long travel Outbacks or making Subarus faster and more reliable offroad

[pontoontodd]

We put the 52 mile trans in the car this afternoon.  Have to wait for the sleeves to press on the axle stubs before I finish hooking everything up, they should be in by Tuesday.

 

The blower motor doesn't spin with 12V applied to it, it's getting 12V, so need to find/buy a new motor for that.  Wondering if the 18V running burned it out.  It does probably have 20 years and 256k miles on it.

 

Before we pulled the trans I ran the car again and it's still only making 12.5V.  If I turn on everything it still makes 12V or a little more, so it seems to still be working just not making 14V.  I have tried another alternator that was working good last year that's doing the same thing.  I checked the wiring again, one pin is 12V with ignition on, center pin is 12V straight to battery, the third pin has good conductivity to the correct pin on the ECU.  The FSM says that pin should have 4-5V with the ignition on but it's 8V, would that cause this problem?  I think I have another alternator plug and I'm tempted to wire that in completely separate with a resistor to that third pin so it has 4-5V, wire the other two pins to battery and ignition and try that.

[pontoontodd]

Plugged in a blower motor out of the H6 donor car and it works, so it was definitely the motor and not the wiring.

 

I noticed the passenger side wiper arm has a little bend to it.  Pulled up on the driver's side wiper arm and it seems to increase the force on the wiper.  Bent the wiper arm to give it a little more preload.  Haven't driven the car in the rain but judging by spraying water on the windshield and running the wipers it definitely helped.  Also gets the spring a little farther away from the windshield, that was still rubbing occasionally.  My friend thinks it may have been bent originally and has been flattened out by hitting too many tree branches.

 

 

The bolt that connects the shifter to the u-joint on the '99 is a shoulder bolt.  On the two transmissions I just bought ('05 Forester and '13 Impreza) it's just a normal bolt, so one end would have been loose in my shifter.  The bushings are a different size too, so I have to use my old u-joint.  While looking at these I noticed the "weld" connecting the two round pieces.  Has anyone ever seen these fail at that spot?  The two in the picture are from the 05 and 13, my 99 looks the same.

 

[pontoontodd]

The main issue keeping the 2005 Forester trans from being a direct swap was the axle stubs and seals.  I have a few 4EAT stubs and they fit the front diff but the seal diameter on them is 30mm.  The seals on the trans are much bigger.

 

 

I thought about buying or reusing some 30mm seals, the OD measures about the same.  Instead I ordered some IR35x30x13 inner bearing races and siliconed them onto the stubs.  They're smooth and hardened so hopefully the sleeves and seals will last a long time.

 

 

They seem like a good fit in the seals, there's a good amount of tension.

 

 

The next issue I ran into while reassembling was one of the exhaust studs started pulling out of the head.  I unthreaded it, drilled and tapped the head, and installed a threaded insert.

 

 

Trans is quiet and shifts smoothly.  Alternator is back to putting out 15V, not sure why.  Engine is back to cutting out for a split second occasionally.

[pontoontodd]

Alternator has still been putting out 15V (or 16 depending on where and how you measure it) most of the time.  I had an extra alternator plug with wiring so I wired one terminal to switched ignition and started experimenting with resistors on the other one that is supposed to get 4-5V from the ECU.  With a low amount of resistance, say 10k ohms, it gets about 9V at the alternator when plugged in.  This is about what the ECU is putting out and causes the alternator to run at 16V.  With more resistance (10M ohms), the voltage at the alternator pin is under 6V and the alternator was putting out 15V.  Then I realized I didn't have the center pin hooked up to the battery yet.  I connected that and now it puts out 13-14V at various RPMs and under high or low load.  So I'm going to leave it that way for now.  Still have the plug wired into the original H6 wiring harness I can plug in to the alternator.

 

While trying to adjust the alignment I noticed the RR CV axle could plunge quite a bit, but the joints were fairly tight.  Took that out and took the outer boot off and found the snapring on the end of the bar was broken.  Put in a different one, regreased, and reassembled that.

 

Rear wiper hasn't worked for at least a few months, we've looked at it before, seemed like the motor was good.  I tried to find the rear wiper relay based on the wiring diagram but couldn't.  Had my friend look at it and he noticed some wires going down out of the main bundle behind the RR wheel well, those went to a relay that was bolted into the hole in the bottom center of the picture below.  Amazingly that nut just threaded right off.

 

 

Since that wheel well hasn't been sealed in a decade or so the wiring was corroded and broken.

 

 

 

 

I cleaned up the terminals on the relay and put new female spade terminals on the wires and the rear wiper works again.

 

My friend replaced the RR CV boot and wheel bearing on his Forester and we put in a catch can.  It seems to be getting oil in the intake and fouling the plugs.  Right now we just replaced the PCV valve and plumbed the valve cover breathers to the catch can, might have to do that with the crankcase breather later.

[iluvdrt]

Just spent the last few days reading this entire thread. Its crazy what all you have done/ been through with this car. The rust you have to deal with is crazy. I am originally from Ohio, but haven't lived there much the past 17 years so I have forgotten how bad it gets with all of the road salt. Its also easy to see how my Brat has survived all these years having lived in Cali its whole life.

 

Nice work on the outback though, your repairs, and mods are impressive. I would venture to guess about all of your problems electrically are related to the corrosion of grounds, especially on body panels. Anyways, keep up the good work. I am excited to see how this turns out with the 6MT swap.

[pontoontodd]

Just spent the last few days reading this entire thread. Its crazy what all you have done/ been through with this car. The rust you have to deal with is crazy. I am originally from Ohio, but haven't lived there much the past 17 years so I have forgotten how bad it gets with all of the road salt. Its also easy to see how my Brat has survived all these years having lived in Cali its whole life.

 

Nice work on the outback though, your repairs, and mods are impressive. I would venture to guess about all of your problems electrically are related to the corrosion of grounds, especially on body panels. Anyways, keep up the good work. I am excited to see how this turns out with the 6MT swap.

 

Thanks, we have certainly put the car through a lot!

I'm hoping the two rust free Outbacks I bought from out west last for a while.

I'm excited about the 6MT and R180 also.  It would be nice to really be able to beat on the drivetrain without worrying about it.

[pontoontodd]

We went back to Arkansas for a long weekend of trail riding.  C had bought an Impreza OB Sport, lifted it, grooved the tires, built an oil pan guard, and removed the plastic bumpers.  On the way to my house Friday morning the engine blew, big hole in the top through which you can see that the #2 rod is broken.  He called me and I went out and towed his car back to his shop and we headed south.  B met us at K's just south of Springfield in his Forester.  We got to our starting point of Winfrey Arkansas around 5PM and met up with D and J from Texas in D's 1996 Impreza with Forester struts, wheel spacers, 225/75/15s, skidplate, snorkel, etc.  Filled up with gas and headed east on 1705.  That didn't work very well, trail was pretty narrow and rocky and we kept hitting gates on private property and it was dark and raining so it was a little difficult to see and turn around.  Eventually we just decided to head to the nearest campground.  Turned out to be a very foggy drive there, often with about 20' visibility, crawling most of the way there, White Mountain campground was at the end of a long dirt road but was nearly full.  It was cold and windy but not too rainy, C cooked venison on the propane stove and we set up the tents.  
In the morning we all got up, J cooked eggs and bacon and we packed everything back up.  Overlook near the office was pretty cool.

 

We had a good day of trail riding, started out on relatively easy but scenic dirt roads, basically wandered east all day.  The first problem we had was D's right rear tire rubbing on the spring perch.  Noticed it when we got on pavement for a little while trying to find the next trail.  He thought he'd bent a strut but it looked about the same as the other side.  Only later did we find out he had small aftermarket camber bolts with plastic sleeves, C thinks it was related to that.  He was able to adjust them enough to give him tire clearance.  I let C drive the Outback for a while and we were on a fairly narrow but smooth dirt trail and then we could see that the trail was straight and uphill for a long ways so I told him to pin it.  Once we got closer we could see that there were small humps, probably for erosion, all the way up the hill, about six total spaced at least 100' apart.  Didn't seem like we were going too fast so I didn't tell him to slow down.  Most of them were decent little jumps but one planted the front of the car into the dirt.  Cracked the other side of the windshield but otherwise caused no obvious damage.  Decided to get some video of both cars going up the hill again but C nosedived it on the one jump again and took it easy the rest of the way up.  Later on we came up to a hump in the trail with a fairly sharp top and a fairly sharp muddy ditch on the far side.  Didn't think the Outback or Forester would have a problem but wanted D to look at it to see if he wanted to do it since the trail was a dead end on the map.  Got over it in the Outback just fine but then a minute later we weren't seeing anyone in the mirrors and went back to see the Forester stuck in the ditch, the RF IB CV joint had pulled apart.  I pulled him out with the Outback and we replaced the axle with his spare front.  We had gone down a fairly long trail and hit another dead end and were heading back out.  There was a long switchback with a fairly steep rocky shortcut climb I decided to try in the Outback.  D decided to try it in the Impreza and he got to the top without much drama, a little air under the front tires over a rock near the top.  B got about halfway up and then had no drive, couldn't even back down.  We got it back to the bottom of the hill and C thought the transmission was shot.  After some more looking and letting the clutch in and out I saw that the RF axle had pulled apart again.  This time we put on my spare Interparts Legacy FWD axle.  He said it also started running rough again and after C put the old plug wires back on it it was back to running well.  He decided to take the easy route.  Then we realized that our shortcut didn't go all the way back up to the main trail.  After we cleared out a fallen tree we were able to take another trail the rest of the way up to the main trail.  Somewhere around here K pointed out what he thought were small mountain lion tracks.  We decided to head to a campground near Ozone and first we went down to Clarksville to get C a tent and propane at Walmart and filled the cars up with gas.  C got a box of fried chicken at the gas station that we shared.  While we were there an old guy drove through in his red Pathfinder and C asked him if he would sell it for $500 (one of the themes of the weekend after he blew the engine in his Impreza).  The guy starts telling him about how it's the best car he owns even though he has a couple newer Chevies.  Then he asked us where we were from and what we were doing and says “don't you have mud in Illinois?”  I hit a nice lane divider on the way into the Walmart parking lot and got a little air.  B picked up a spare CV axle and met us there.  On the way up the highway to Ozone, D pulled off into the closed Chat and Scat service station, his car was running rough.  His snorkel ran through the front fender into the side of the airbox and the elbow at the airbox had come loose so he got a lot of muddy water in the airbox which had clogged the air filter.  B ran into town and got a can of MAF cleaner for him, I ordered him a MAF sensor at the nearest parts store so it would be there in the morning if he wanted it.  We were able to get a fire going eventually despite the wood being wet and cooked venison, potatoes, veggies, and seasoned apple slices J had brought.

 

The next morning we just had bagels and cinnamon rolls and some jars of yogurt/oatmeal/fruit J and D brought.  I told J to ride with me for a while so he could experience the Outback.  We found a cool trail that went downhill and was fairly straight for a quarter to half mile with at least a dozen small humps on it that turned out to be decent jumps.  Nothing spectacular but J thought it was great going down and back up.  A little later we noticed no one was following us so we drove back to find out that D had tried to avoid a rock on a narrow trail and put the car into a dirt berm.  The corner light was still in the berm and the headlight plastic was blown out but it was still attached and functional.  He bent the fender back away from the tire and we kept going.  We were heading down a trail that was a dead end on the map but we hoped would go through that was one of the narrowest most overgrown trails of the weekend and came to a stream crossing.  It wasn't too rough or deep but there was a waist high bank on the far side that was very steep.  I figured we should just turn around since it was a dead end on the map but D suggested we just climb up it and back for the hell of it.  He decided to try it even though I tried to discourage him.  He got up the bank without any difficulty and then drove over an 8” log on the far side.  We had told them to go as far as they could and see if it was a dead end, which it was.  I tried to turn around in some saplings near the stream crossing and got a 2” tree caught between the front bumper and tire and bent the fender and cracked the headlight tabs.  At one point we were trying to see if another trail went through and it ended at a couple of private drives.  We walked around a bit and saw a shot up refrigerator, an old shack, and a waterfall that C, K, and D walked behind.

 

 

We drove to Alum Cove natural bridge to do a little hiking and make sandwiches.

 

 

 

Eventually D and J headed to the parts store and home and we continued.  I was trying to head towards the rocky hillclimb we drove when we were there in February.  We were driving down a wide dirt road and came to a pine tree fallen across most of the road.  There were muddy tire tracks around the end of it we probably could have followed but an old couple was cutting it up with a chainsaw so we stopped to help.  By this time K was feeling ill.  When we got it all off the road they said something about the school bus should be able to get through now.  We followed a dirt/gravel road along a river and drove under a waterfall.  The road eventually came to an 1/8+ mile wide river crossing.  It didn't look extremely deep but the water was flowing fast so we turned around.  We decided since K was feeling ill we might want to head towards civilization.  The closest campground was Long Pond along a river so we headed up that way.  The main road up there was paved so I decided that wasn't desirable and tried taking an alternate route.  At first it was a gravel road and then we turned off on a goat trail.  Not overgrown by UP standards but probably the narrowest rockiest trail of the weekend.  It eventually came out to a pipeline grade that went back to the paved road on the map.  We got most of the way to the road and then it was a very steep drop down.  We stopped at the top and enjoyed the awesome view. 

 

 

Tried a side trail which came to an even better view.  I had told C I thought it would go through since it wasn't overgrown but if it didn't then we'd just get to enjoy it twice.  Back on the road B flashed his lights so I pulled over and they said there were sparks coming out the bottom of the car.  All we could figure is that the heat shields on the cats had some grass in them and were smoldering.  Due to the detour we didn't make it to the campground before dark but it was nice and we had a big level spot right across from the bathroom with running water.  Cooked the rest of the venison and had the best sleep of the weekend inside of three sleeping bags.

 

 

Mountain lion tracks in a streambed next to a quarter we put down for scale.

 

B had pointed out his LR strut tower seam towards the rear of the car was pulling apart earlier in the weekend.  I didn't think it was a big deal since it was towards the rear.  Then I saw the 2-3” gap between the floor and the bottom of the strut tower through which you could see the foam around the spare tire well.  We brainstormed some ideas for fixing it and K threw out jamming the spare tire between the top of the strut and the roof.  We were able to do that with the tire deflated and propped up the top of the tire with a 2x6 down to the bottom of the RR strut tower.  Then we inflated the tire and when C lifted up on the LR corner of the car at the bumper the gap closed up some.  It did cause a bulge in the roof and wrinkle above the window. 

 

 

We figured we'd take it relatively easy and tried to get to the rocky climb from our last trip.  I let K drive the Outback and we were heading to the opposite side of the river to get to the climb and the trail kept getting steeper and rockier downhill.  I suggested we stop and walk down to see if we could cross the streams/river.  We spent about an hour hiking to the bottom and checking out the various crossing options and didn't see anything feasible, but we did get directly across the river from one of the spots we reached last year.  We hiked back up to the cars.  The Forester had been idling the whole time and I took video of the tailpipe while B revved the engine and created a huge cloud of white smoke.  I think he used five quarts of oil over the weekend.  At this point it was after 10AM and we had a long drive back home and we all knew we should head back.  We stood there and bullshitted for a long time and C pointed out it was the first time all weekend I wasn't eager to get back in the car and start driving.  K kept driving and we took a different route towards the old ski lodge we had found on our last trip.  He thought we should stop and clean the windows at the next gas station so we did that and fueled the cars.  When C and I went to the bathrooms one of the cashiers started telling us about how they'd seen us a few times over the weekend, then we would pull off into the woods and they'd see us somewhere else and said “I know you had a good time this weekend.”  The road had awesome views.  One of the roads we took had a bunch of tight switchbacks going down and a cow tunnel under the road.  We got up to the old ski lodge and parked near an old large metal A framed building and made sandwiches and bullshitted for a while.  There was a large dilapitated round wooden building nearby that looked like it was being spray painted on the inside based on the plastic over the doors and windows.  After a while a 4.5' tall lady came out by herself and asked what we were doing.  We told her we were just relaxing and eating lunch and we'd leave soon.  I thought she was pretty brave to just walk up to four guys that she obviously thought were suspicious.  We drove around the rest of the lot, saw the top of one of the chair lifts, the post office, ski chalets (some of which are probably occupied) and headed north.  Stopped at the candy factory and world's largest gift store.  We got to K's around sunset.  B's RR CV axle had been making noise all weekend and was apparently getting very loud, so we swapped that out in K's shop.  We headed north and fairly shortly realized the LR wheel bearing on the Outback was very sloppy.  I called Oreillys in Springfield and they had the bearing, seals, and hub.  I parked the car a little way down a dead end road and we drove up to Oreillys and bought the parts right before they closed.  We ate a bacon cheeseburger pizza at Mario's.  Got back to the Outback, drove back down to K's, and replaced the wheel bearing using his lift and press.  Headed home again, B went home to the suburbs.  I dropped off C and got home around 4AM.

 

Overall one of our best offroad trips yet, everyone had a great time.  Not as large as the UP and farther from home, but we can't go up there yet and Ozark NF might have more good trails per acre than the UP, but it does seem like a little more pavement driving to get from one to the next is required than the UP.  The trails are a good Subaru difficulty level too, I could do 99+% of the trails we were on in my stock Impreza.

Edited April 18, 2018 by pontoontodd

[pontoontodd]

This is what the Forester strut tower looked like without the spare tire holding it down.  Not attached by much.  Most of the front seam was separated too.

 

 

 

With a scissor jack and some boards we were able to get things back into place and welded as we went.  Welded a few seams on the other side to try to prevent this happening.  He is stepping up his rust free Forester search.  PM me if you know of a good rust free manual trans 2000-2008 Forester for sale.

 

 

I got a couple of rear knuckles from a junkyard and replaced the wheel bearing in one using some pieces of tubing and an acme screw.  Much slower than using the press, but we can take it with us in case we have to replace one on the road.  Thinking about going back to Ozark NF in a couple weeks.

[scalman]

cars who where never build to hold long travel suspension and thats result. its sad to see them in this state really. and i bet in that trip long travel suspension was not even needed . 

[pontoontodd]

cars who where never build to hold long travel suspension and thats result. its sad to see them in this state really. and i bet in that trip long travel suspension was not even needed . 

 

I'm guessing the rust was more of a factor than the long travel.  If anything the long travel makes life a little easier on the body since you're not bottoming out so hard.

On my Outback I started breaking the rear strut towers loose years before we built the long travel, welded them back on and haven't had to fix them since.

I don't know that long travel suspension is ever needed, but it often lets us drive faster and hit some jumps without breaking our cars.  Once you've driven off road with decent suspension, driving with the stock suspension seems a lot less fun.

[scalman]

i thought i have rust but OMG that forester is just braking apart. yh more speed can brake cars . its because subarus just love speed and its fun to drive them even with oem suspension. 

maybe that forester need strut bars front and rear there to keep those in place. imagine that happens to my daily driver i would cry ..,lol

[pontoontodd]

i thought i have rust but OMG that forester is just braking apart. yh more speed can brake cars . its because subarus just love speed and its fun to drive them even with oem suspension. 

maybe that forester need strut bars front and rear there to keep those in place. imagine that happens to my daily driver i would cry ..,lol

 

Don't cry just fix it.

I don't think a rear strut tower brace would do a whole lot and would make it harder to put large objects in the back of the car.  We talked about putting in a rear roll hoop and some tubes down to the "frame rails."  Hopefully this fix will last for a while.

[pontoontodd]

Check out Oak Leaf Auto Salvage. They're in northern WI, and specialize in Subarus. I've seen several complete 6MT/r180 kits sold for pretty reasonable. I bought the front clip to fix my Outback from them, and they strapped it all to a pallet and shipped it to my work (we had a loading dock at the AutoZone I worked at at the time).

 

You might also check out TSS Fab, they were trying to put together a batch of 6MT 4.444 ring/pinions on their facebook page this winter. I'm not sure if it ever happened, though.

 

Diamond auto parts in Fond Du Lac has a bunch of STIs.

It appears the 2008+ 6MT has a plug in place of the VSS, do you know if a VSS can be installed?  Is the internal speedo gear in these transmissions?  Where is it?  I was thinking about getting a 2008+ since there are many available and many are low mileage.

Your PMs are full too.

[Numbchux]

Diamond auto parts in Fond Du Lac has a bunch of STIs.

It appears the 2008+ 6MT has a plug in place of the VSS, do you know if a VSS can be installed?  Is the internal speedo gear in these transmissions?  Where is it?  I was thinking about getting a 2008+ since there are many available and many are low mileage.

Your PMs are full too.

 

Busy day today, didn't get a chance to check on the 6MT, I'll try again tomorrow.

 

 

I deleted a few PMs.

[pontoontodd]

Busy day today, didn't get a chance to check on the 6MT, I'll try again tomorrow.

 

 

I deleted a few PMs.

 

According to the Subaru parts site, up to 2007 had VSS, the gear for that is on the front diff.  Might be able to put that in a 2008+ but would probably require some bearing removal, not to mention trans disassembly.  Now I'm thinking 04-05 since it has a plate front diff, that should be better in one wheel airborne situations than the torsen in the later cars.  Assuming it still has preload by the time I get it.

[pontoontodd]

Video from Mine made park in Kentucky.  You can see the low range at work in the first few minutes of the video.

 

 

Will have video from Arkansas up soon.

[pontoontodd]

Video from our trip to Arkansas a couple weeks ago:

 

 

One of our best trips yet, going back in a couple weeks, post/pm if you're interested in joining us.

[Subaru Scott]

Thanks for sharing your adventures!

 

I really love your stub shaft seal sleeve mod, that's definitely thinking outside the box!

[pontoontodd]

Went through a pile of front CV axles to try to figure out which ones were long enough for our longer control arms.  Still haven't found out if the yard in town with the SVX has the axles for it, want to measure those.  These are most of the front axles I have:

 

 

Long story short the Legacy FWD axles are biggest and longest but still have a similar compressed length to the normal EJ front axles.  The 02-04 Impreza sedan axles are long also, but don't have a lot of travel so the compressed length is longer than normal too, which probably isn't a problem.  The joints on those axles are basically the smallest of any we measured though, so I'm guessing we would wear them out fast.

 

Replumbed the catch can on the Forester, my friend has been going through a lot of oil and fouling some plugs.  Five quarts in our trip to and from Arkansas.  Was just plumbed between the valve covers and airbox as recommended, but since most of the blowby comes out the crankcase breather it wasn't catching anything.  He now has the valve covers plumbed directly to the airbox like stock and the crankcase breather goes through the catch can.  Moved one of the brake lines and reservoir to get a little more rear tire clearance.

 

I got a couple of rear knuckles and a fender to replace one I smashed in Arkansas.  Swapped out the fender and corner light.  Put a new wheel bearing, seals, and hub in the LR knuckle from the yard and put that on the car.  That shifted my alignment back to where it was before Kentucky, so I think in Kentucky I bent that other knuckle somehow.  The front wheel bearings were a little sloppy so I replaced those.  The bolt on wheel bearings are so easy to replace.  They are Timken but one had grease between the bearing and hub, hopefully just extra from assembly.  I'm thinking I might just replace all the wheel bearings every 20k miles to be safe.  There are small body plugs right behind both front tires that were both pushed out of place so I resealed those, hopefully that will keep some of the water out.  The windshield is cracked on both sides and has all sorts of welding/grinding spatter so it needs to be replaced.  That will probably help but the wipers were not working well.  I bent the passenger side arm up (probably actually bending the part of the cowl it pivots on), that spring was rubbing on the glass and making a horrible noise.  The driver's side wiper was working better for a while after I bent it down.  I twisted the outer steel part towards the back of the car and now it seems to be working well again.  Changed engine and rear diff oil and engine oil filter.  Got a stiffer spring for CB antenna before our trip to Arkansas which seems to keep the antenna from slapping the windshield but the part of the hood it goes through keeps cracking.  Welded about a 2" square piece of sheet metal behind it and welded part of the bracing to the top panel.

 

Got about 90% of the Fox parts I need for the front struts for the 2002.  Need to get some parts laser cut and then I'll start on the long travel, bumpers, and skidplates for that.

 

Holding off for a little while on the 6MT/R180, hoping this 52 mile 5MT will last the summer.

 

[jf1sf5]

The 3rd cv joint from the left looks the same as an SVX. What are the lengths compressed and extended ? And is the outer cv 3mm larger than a Forester cv ?

[scalman]

will be interesting to see what you will put on that '02 outback. then again fox means all will be expensive and no diy . 

Edited May 1, 2018 by scalman

[pontoontodd]

The 3rd cv joint from the left looks the same as an SVX. What are the lengths compressed and extended ? And is the outer cv 3mm larger than a Forester cv ?

 

I definitely want to find some SVX axles then.  I believe the third from the left is a FWD Legacy axle.  They are 677-680mm compressed and 730-735 extended.  Outer CV is 5-12mm bigger diameter than what I think are standard EJ axles.

The axles we think are normal EJ are 677/722mm.

[pontoontodd]

will be interesting to see what you will put on that '02 outback. then again fox means all will be expensive and no diy . 

 

It's all relative I guess.  DIY your own shocks from scratch would probably cost a lot more than buying parts from Fox, definitely if you consider your time.  There are a lot of parts and some close tolerance machining.

Tempted to try modifying a set of KYBs or something for better damping and strength. 

One of our friends might buy a cheap set of coilovers from ebay for his Impreza OBS just to see if you can adjust them stiff enough to keep from bottoming, price is cheaper than buying a full set of new stock replacement struts and springs.

[scalman]

 i always wondered is there any way to fit , change, redone some other car models shocks to fit our cars . like to have longer base shock in front/rear that would be same lenght that is oem shock with 5cm spacer . there must be other cars shocks that are longer then ours that they would fit us , no ? meaning just to have longer shock by 5cm would give us more travel that way . all those special offroad / racing shocks just cost a lot money . 

like loyale 2.7 turbo had those adjustable base models. and then you can fit toyota 4runner front shock to L rear. thats awesome . can we find something similar that fits us ?

Edited May 1, 2018 by scalman

[pontoontodd]

 i always wondered is there any way to fit , change, redone some other car models shocks to fit our cars . like to have longer base shock in front/rear that would be same lenght that is oem shock with 5cm spacer . there must be other cars shocks that are longer then ours that they would fit us , no ? meaning just to have longer shock by 5cm would give us more travel that way . all those special offroad / racing shocks just cost a lot money . 

like loyale 2.7 turbo had those adjustable base models. and then you can fit toyota 4runner front shock to L rear. thats awesome . can we find something similar that fits us ?

 

It's possible but I don't know of any longer travel struts that would fit the EJ Subarus.  The stock ones actually have quite a bit of travel for a street car, about 6" front and 8" rear.  I've seen charts for shock lengths but not for struts.  Try contacting some of the manufacturers - KYB, Monroe, etc maybe they can tell you.

 

Keep in mind part of the problem with the stock struts for driving fast is that they have very little compression damping.  Especially on the Outback, the rear struts sit near the bump stops at ride height.  So they're very easy to bottom out.  Which I think is what bends the housings.  So you really want more damping, stiffer springs and/or more preload, and a stronger body.

 

Racing shocks cost a lot of money for a reason.  They solve all those problems and give you something at least close to the damping you want out of the box.  The biggest reason they're so expensive is that they don't make many compared to a standard replacement strut.  If KYBs had good damping, a strong body, sat in the middle of the travel at ride height, and they made them by the thousands, they would be cheap and would solve all our problems.  But that would probably be too harsh for most people's normal street driving and no one else would want them.  Then we're back to low volumes and high cost.

 

Inverted struts are more expensive because they have more parts than a conventional strut.  They need a little more maintenance but are much stronger.  Again, most people don't want a strut they have to grease every once in a while on their street car that costs more money so not many are made, which makes them more expensive.