long travel Outbacks or making Subarus faster and more reliable offroad

[pontoontodd]

8 hours ago, 6 Star said:

Over the past few weeks I have kept this thread open in a tab on my phone, it has made for an entertaining and inspiring read during my break time at work.

Keep up the good work!

The grass is always greener on the other side... you have so much R & D into these Outbacks you might as well continue with them. However variety is the spice of life.

The only constructive criticism I have is to watch those cross-sections on the trails you are blasting down. (Forgot the location, several videos back) I would hate to be on an atv or whatever and get T-boned by an Outback doing 60 through the woods haha. I didnt see another soul besides you guys on the video but its just a what if... never know who else is out there.

Glad I could provide some entertainment.

The Subarus do seem generally reliable and have much longer CV axles than any IFS truck and parts are cheap and common but they do have their downsides.  Planning on sticking with them for a while.

I try to be careful on blind turns and intersections.  I have also seen a few people almost get wrecked by someone in front of me doing what you describe.  The video isn't always a good representation of what's going on either, usually you can see a lot better in the car than the camera shows.

[pontoontodd]

Painted and installed the front guard for the 2002 OB.

Went with "flat nickel", seemed to be the best match for the stock bumpers/plastic and it was on clearance.  Eventually I'll tie it into the front bumper but we're planning on taking it to an off road park next month and need it on.  Going to wait until after the long travel is installed to build the bumpers to check tire clearance.  Should get more parts in for the long travel tomorrow but not sure if I'll even get that done in the next month, might just lift it a couple inches.

 

Made a couple simple tube guards for the gas tank.  Hopefully this will help it from getting completely smashed, not much to attach to in front of the tank.

Front of the tubes bolt into studs by the trans tunnel.  Thought about tying into the screws that hold the plastic gas tank guard in place but not sure how much that would help.  Back end bolts into the subframe mounts.

[scalman]

looks good but it should take away some ground clearance from you is it ? thought its not a problem if you will have a lot of that. 

but what if you driving not fast and you catch stone and its slyding on that front extra tube and after that its empty space where you coolant tube is going,  what if you drop on that place on something hard ? like its exposed so much 

[pontoontodd]

18 hours ago, scalman said:

looks good but it should take away some ground clearance from you is it ? thought its not a problem if you will have a lot of that. 

but what if you driving not fast and you catch stone and its slyding on that front extra tube and after that its empty space where you coolant tube is going,  what if you drop on that place on something hard ? like its exposed so much 

It takes up about an inch more ground clearance.  A flat plate would be a little higher but would get bent pretty easily.  The engine moves around quite a bit on the mounts too, seems like at least an inch, so some space is good there.

When would we not be driving fast?  I know what you mean though, I thought about adding sheets on the sides under the exhaust and coolant hoses like on my 99 but didn't for now.  Could always do that later.  We've got a couple trips planned for the next month or so, trying to get the cars all ready with guards and long travel.

[scalman]

i would add sheet there from both sides. less mud, grass , gravel and all other bad stuff that will pack there and stay until you remove that all from there. but that tube from water pump i would cover for sure. 

but maybe you drive more on dry surface not sure... from your earlier videos i see you just going non stop hehe. 

[pontoontodd]

41 minutes ago, scalman said:

i would add sheet there from both sides. less mud, grass , gravel and all other bad stuff that will pack there and stay until you remove that all from there. but that tube from water pump i would cover for sure. 

but maybe you drive more on dry surface not sure... from your earlier videos i see you just going non stop hehe. 

 

Except on my 99 Outback the last couple years, we've always just had a rectangular tube under the middle of the oil pan.  A few times the exhaust has gotten dented, but that's it.  These will provide more protection with better ground clearance, and with the long travel struts the cars sit fairly high.

[pontoontodd]

My friend still had noise coming from the back of his Forester so he replaced the RR wheel bearing.  It did look a little red on the inside, possibly from rust, and a small piece of the outer race had broken off somehow.

I replaced the engine, transmission, and rear diff oil since we didn't know how long it had been.

This is how the front guard turned out for the Forester:

 

 

[pontoontodd]

Did some more rust repair on the 99 Outback.  I had originally repaired this corner four years ago:

https://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/144953-long-travel-outbacks-or-making-subarus-faster-and-more-reliable-offroad/?do=findComment&comment=1245301

It's a bit strange that before that I had to repair the passenger side rear strut tower, now that one doesn't look bad.

This is what it looked like:

Gap closed up some just by jacking up the car and removing the strut.

Cleaned mud, rust, and undercoating off the areas I was going to weld.

Pulled it sort of back together with a come along to the trailing arm mount.

Welded it back up and added an L shaped patch where there was still a gap.  Ground smooth some of the welds where the tire rubs.

This is what it looked like painted with the strut installed.

 

 

This is what it looked like on the inside.  If you compare it to the post above you can see how much worse it's gotten in four years.

That original patch fell off while I was removing rust so I cleaned most of the rust off of it too.

This is what the inside looked like without the patch and with rust and paint removed for welding.

Welded the old patch back on and added a couple of smaller ones.

Over the winter I need to check the other side.  I also have an idea to strengthen up this part of the body, might do it to this car and the Forester.  One good thing about the 2000+ Outback is that there are no rear strut towers.

 

My friend replaced the rear pads while I was doing that.

[slammo]

Wow that rust is terrible.  I know it'd be a lot of work to swap the cage over, but you can find rust free Outbacks with mechanical issues for just a few hundred bucks.

[pontoontodd]

4 minutes ago, slammo said:

Wow that rust is terrible.  I know it'd be a lot of work to swap the cage over, but you can find rust free Outbacks with mechanical issues for just a few hundred bucks.

I know.  If it didn’t have a cage I probably would have parted it out by now.  I don’t know how you would swap the cage without cutting the greenhouse off both cars. 

[scalman]

aha .. my car is not only one here with bad rust ... lol jk. its good you did fixed it .. for how long thats another question. but when we love our cars we like to fix them as well. 

and if you could fix those thats makes me feel better to try to fix some of mines that left too.  and nothing to loose there too. you not gonna make it worse just better . so its allways up

[Numbchux]

Are the strut tops tied into the cage at all? I've seen some seriously abused rally shells, and never anything like that...

[pontoontodd]

51 minutes ago, Numbchux said:

Are the strut tops tied into the cage at all? I've seen some seriously abused rally shells, and never anything like that...

yes:

There's a pretty big span between the bottom of the middle roll hoop where it bolts to the floor and where the rear diagonal bolts to the floor though, and the car is rusty and gets driven hard.  I've probably put 50k miles on it since the last rust repair four years ago.  In some ways the long travel probably helps since we're not bottoming out so hard, but it also lets you drive the car that much faster, so on balance it probably doesn't help.

[scalman]

it is amazing what you can do with car with some welding skills. or even to learn it from zero and evolve with time. its so satisfying to weld something and see result ... i just love it . and look at others welding skills its always great. im still learning. 

[pontoontodd]

Went on a Subaru southwest road trip / trail ride last week.  Friday afternoon we all met at K's house in Springfield IL. Opened the hood on the Outback and noticed the radiator was bubbling at the base of the top tubes. Took the radiator out and JB welded them. Put a vacuum on the radiator but probably after it had cured.

Saturday morning I got up and started putting the radiator back in. We drove down to Oklahoma to Black Mesa state park. On the way we had gone 280 miles and B's Forester ran out of gas just as we pulled off the interstate. He and Z grabbed the roof rack and shook the car side to side and he was able to drive up to the gas station. In Kansas we were driving into a small town, last speed limit sign I saw was 55. Passed a cop pointing the radar gun at us, saw a sign for 45 and slowed down for that. Looked in the mirror and he was pulling out behind us. Gave me a ticket for going 58 in a 45, none of us saw a 45 sign before the spot he was parked in. Got to Black Mesa after dark, parked in a cool spot next to a tree growing out of a big rock and a picnic table between two big rocks.

 

 

[pontoontodd]

Sunday morning we saw a deer in the campground. Some of the sites were along a backwater of the lake. Drove up to the lake overlook and headed to New Mexico.

Drove to some dinosaur tracks in a streambed, no signs just at the end of a little dirt road. Tried to drive around to get to a short hiking trail to the state high point but couldn't. We didn't want to do the four mile hiking trail in the interest of time and moved on. While trying to do that we were driving down a dirt road and saw a cement post. It is the intersection of Colorado, New Mexico, and Oklahoma so we checked that out.

Saw an old volcano on the map on the way we were going so we headed towards that. There were a couple antelope in the road on the way there stuck between two fence lines. It took them quite a while to find a spot they could duck under the fence.

When we got close Capulin Volcano National Monument we tried taking some dirt roads that circled it on the map but they eventually stopped at a gate. Drove up to the top of the volcano and hiked the little trail around the rim.

This is the dirt road/trail we tried taking around the volcano.

Hiking trail to the center of the volcano.

Next we went to Mills canyon campground in Kiowa National Grassland that was supposed to be difficult to get to. We were able to drive down without any issues and even saw a Nissan crossover driving up on our way back up.

Checked out the ruins of an old house at the bottom where they had an orchard which had flooded.

Took some New Mexico state highways through the mountains, went over 9000' and saw snow and a herd of over 100 elk.

Some of these state highways were just dirt roads. Got to Bandelier National Monument and camped out overnight.

[pontoontodd]

Monday morning we hiked to the waterfall, which was dry, and then to the ruins. Saw a couple Alberts squirrels.

Headed west through more national forest. Drove around one area that had some gravel roads through the mountains with cool scenery but kept hitting dead ends at private land. Hit some little jumps along those roads.

Hiked to Jemez falls. Headed over to the Gilman tunnels, old railroad tunnels there is now a back road running through and some waterfalls alongside.

Really didn't find many side trails in the national forests in New Mexico so we decided to head to Arizona. I wanted to go back to Chaco Culture since I thought the trail heading west out of there was one of the most entertaining we were on last year and there weren't a lot of other camping options in the area. Hit one stretch of 8-12 jumps in a row on one back road. On the way it rained a little.

Took 57 up to Chaco. It is a dirt road but fairly smooth and straight. About five miles up we came to a dually pickup with fifth wheel camper that had the passenger side tires of the trailer in the ditch. Slowed down but still wound up sliding around on the greasy dirt road. Drove back and parked the Outback in the opposite ditch and winched the RV up on the road. While we were doing this the woman in the pickup was calling AAA. They told her they'd send a tow truck there. Talked to the local towing company who told her they would not go down that road. Had to tie the Outback to a fencepost with the strap and rock the RV but got it mostly on the road. He was then able to drive forward with the winch cable still attached and get out of the ditch. Saw a cool sunset while we were doing that, took it easy driving the rest of the way to Chaco but meant we got to camp after dark. They camped out on the road overnight and planned to drive in the next morning.

[pontoontodd]

We hiked some of the biggest ruins Tuesday morning. Saw the RV coming in the park.

Forecast was rain in central AZ and northwest NM so we headed west to another ruin and tried to get out of the park heading west. The gate I had gone through last year to get out was closed and we couldn't find any other ways out but went down some cool trails and saw some interesting sights, like an eagle's nest at the top of a bluff we hiked to, wild horses, hit a decent jump, found petrified wood and other fossils, iron balls, and drove along a river. Near the jump B went up a big soft bank to turn around and bent one of his Forester steel wheels, so we swapped that out and made sandwiches.

By the time we left Chaco it was about the same time the previous day we did the RV recovery, so we spent 24 hours making no progress but had one of our most interesting days. We drove to Canyon de Chelley to camp, it was one of the few campgrounds we could find in the area we wanted to go.  On the way we drove Massey NE 41 (Black Creek) which turned out to just be a dirt road. Normally would have been kind of boring but with the rain it was a mud bog most of the way.

Edited October 30, 2018 by pontoontodd

[pontoontodd]

Campground was decent with a bunch of cars and trucks that had rooftop tents. Wednesday morning we drove to the White House ruin hiking trail, the only trail you can do without a guide, and hiked that first thing in the morning.

Headed down towards Cinder Hills ORV. On the way there we saw a dirt road going to the top of a mesa so we drove up there and made sandwiches.

Saw a bunch of forest service roads around Cinder Hills, including one that followed a big powerline straight to the park. We pulled off the highway where the powerline crossed and started generally following that. The trails in that area were probably the best all week. We did some big climbs along the powerline. B's new Forester runs much better than his old one.

Drove to some of the hills and washes near the park and then headed in. There are somewhat more trails in the park and you can drive anywhere, but many of the trails are badly whooped out which gets old. I got a flat going around a turn following B in the dust, there was a tree root sticking out of the inside rut on the trail. We put on the spare and continued. After we left there we were driving down another dirt road and came across another RV stuck when they'd tried to turn around and backed too far into a ditch. This was an easy recovery with the strap, just gently pulled them up out of the ditch with the Outback. Campgrounds in the area were mostly closed as it had snowed a couple weeks before, we camped at lakeview campground which was dispersed and primitive. At camp that night I tried patching it with a total of 12 plugs and let it sit overnight.

[pontoontodd]

Thursday morning I aired up the tire and it held for a while. We wanted to head south and check out some trails in the Massey book. NE 31 was just a dirt road but had many good side trails. NE 32 and NE 34 were easy dirt roads through meadows. Trail NE 33 was about ten miles of softball sized (but not round) rocks. Stopped at a few little lakes along the way.

Then we got to the Mogollon rim, I've wanted to check it out for years. It's basically a 30 mile long 2000' high cliff that runs east/west. There is a main dirt road at the top with many dirt trails going along the edge and out to overlooks. Could easily spend a few days there checking it out and camping but we wanted to camp at lower elevation that night.

We did hike down to the old railroad tunnel. It was difficult to find, I read later there have been rockslides in recent years which have covered the old trail. The tunnel was only blasted 100' in out of the 3100' they planned. The stone building at the entrance where they stored the explosives still stands. With all the wandering and steep grades the hike really wasn't worth it.

We drove down 260 to a campground with bathrooms and water.

Edited October 30, 2018 by pontoontodd

[jf1sf5]

Thats some beautiful pics, thanks for sharing.

Have you started the long travel coilovers for the BH Outback yet ?

[pontoontodd]

Friday morning we drove more Massey trails heading towards Phoenix. Central 32 was just a dirt road but the many side trails we were on were very similar to the Ozark NF in Arkansas. Central 33 was just a dirt road without many side trails.

Central 34 was mostly paved but we did see a tarantula and stopped to take pictures.

We stopped in Globe for gas. On the way into town we saw many dirt roads / trails going up the hills south of town. After some wandering through a neighborhood we got out of town on the trails and followed one up to a small picnic area.

C 39 trail went up a wash to Montana mountain in a big U and came back down another wash. We're pretty sure we ran it in the difficult direction, many of the climbs we did were steep and rocky but it was relatively smooth coming back down. Also most of the traffic we saw on the trail (and there was much more than any other trail we were on) was going the other direction. The view from the top was awesome and there were some side trails.

We hadn't seen any mines and wanted to go to C 42 that went to an old mine before we went to Phoenix for the night. We first tried from the west end of C 40 where C 41 starts but the signs said a permit was required.  We drove east to C 40 and headed south.  The first obstacle was a wash that crossed the trail creating some rocky ditches and hills to get through. We walked it and didn't think it would be too bad. I made it through and as I was getting down in the wash the left front corner of the car hit a big rock, bouncing off the bumper and breaking the aluminum control arm mount. The rock was fairly large but I was going pretty slow at the time, most of the weight of the car was on that corner and I must have hit it just right. We winched the car forwards into the wash so we'd be on level ground. We jacked up the side of the car and strapped/pried/jacked the bushing sort of back in place and put a bunch of hose clamps and safety wire around it.

I was then able to gently drive out of the wash and took it easy on the highway to Phoenix. We stayed with friends, they fed us dinner, we chatted and showed them pictures, and the guys took showers.

Edited October 30, 2018 by pontoontodd

[pontoontodd]

Saturday morning I had wanted to head out early but we felt we should replace the control arm to be safe. Took the old one off and ate breakfast and headed to the junkyard. Got to a pick and pull with three Outbacks and took an arm off one. Also grabbed a few interior pieces. B has been looking for a rust free hatch for his Eclipse for a few years, he found one that was silver instead of gray but rust free so we removed that and the radiator. Strapped the hatch to the roof of the Forester.

Went back to the house and strapped/pried/hammered the arm into place, it was a struggle since the crossmember was bent back. With the proper amount of cussing we got it bolted in. Ate lunch and headed north. Stayed in a hotel for about 3.5 hours to get some real sleep and finished driving home Sunday.

We saw a lot of amazing scenery and a great variety of trails. Radiator leaked about a quart of coolant a day, bent a wheel, got a flat tire, and broke a control arm bushing, not bad considering we were trail riding for six days. Drove about 4300 miles total, we figure about 1000 of that was off pavement. B had a GMRS base radio in the Forester and we had a handheld in the Outback and they seemed to work better than the CBs. Also the units and antennas are much smaller than CBs. Noticed while driving on rough roads the cage moves about 1/4” relative to the body, so it's probably not adding as much stiffness as I thought.

Edited October 30, 2018 by pontoontodd

[pontoontodd]

1 hour ago, jf1sf5 said:

Thats some beautiful pics, thanks for sharing.

Have you started the long travel coilovers for the BH Outback yet ?

Yes, the front struts and arms are ready to bolt on.  Just ordered the last few parts I need for the rear shocks, those are partially assembled already.  Mounts and spacers for the rear are almost done too.  Might get that all on the car this weekend, plan on taking three long travel cars to an offroad park in a few weeks.

[pontoontodd]

Also the temp sticker I put on the floor above the muffler maxed out at 390F.