*Rust* Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Good morning . Matt here from Prince Edward Island, Canada. Been browsing these forums for about a year. I bought a 1992 Subaru Loyale 4wd Wagon for $500 2 years ago. The car is a tank , been great through the snow , decent car for daily driver. I was on my way to have the car safety inspected .....rattle rattle boom! Rear wheel came off . I fishtailed down the road , managed to get the car off to the side . The wheel was off about 15-20 ft into the woods , nope didn't pass me though! all the hardware(axle nut ,washers) was between the hub cap and wheel. I'm guessing the axle nut pin was to blame , whatever happened to it ? I was able to straighten the backing plate enough to get the hub/drum back on. Took the car home . I've ordered some new Drums , spring kit , shoes for the rear . working on finding a backing plate.... My concern is how this goes back together . There is a tapered washer "cone washer" that goes on before the axle nut . should i be replacing it . Im not having luck finding one , then again i don't know what it's called? Thats all for now , my new fuel pump just came in ....expensive! Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 There's two pieces of hardware behind the axle nut ; a big cone shaped washer against the hub, then a slightly concaved washer, then the nut. If the cone washer is worn (it will have a ridge on it) it will cause the axle nut to back off. I got my replacement for a worn one from a junkyard car. Now the concaved washer that goes between the axle nut and the cone shaped one I'm pretty sure goes on with the outward curve TOWARD the cone shaped one. Somebody will correct me if I'm wrong though. Oh and about the fuel pump; you can use a fuel pump from early 90s Ford F-series trucks that have dual tanks. The pump for the auxiliary tank. It's much cheaper, and a dime a dozen. Search around the site for information about it. Good luck! Nice job just throwing everything together and getting the car back home. Vigilance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibreakstuff Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 As 175eya said, try to find a cone and washer that are not too worn. And make sure to use the largest cotter pin possible, smaller ones will just work their way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibreakstuff Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Old quote I pulled from ShawnW with part numbers: "The cone is 623024020 and the washer between it and the castle nut is 623204080." They run about 8 bucks Edited March 12, 2014 by Ibreakstuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I have to correct I75eya. The rounded washer goes on with the convex side OUT, not towards the cone washer. Most of them actually say "OUT" on the side that goes out. Helps a lot. I never knew there was a practical use for hub caps before. Catching parts is a new one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 "Somebody will correct me if I'm wrong though." See? Haha! If they are original, i don't think they have any words stamped. I've gotten new ones that did say out though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibreakstuff Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Honestly, I can't see how the direction would matter much. At least not catastrophically so. Its just putting preload on the cone, like a big Bellevue washer? Disclaimer: Don't listen to anything I say, I was born redneck. ^^maybe that should be in my sig Edited March 12, 2014 by Ibreakstuff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 its metalergic properties and shape keep the torque on the parts. that way youre axle nut doesnt come off.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 If it's on incorrectly the axle nut will slowly loosen and you'll get front end slop. I don't understand how the OP didn't notice the axle nut was loose before it finally just came off and he lost his hub. I'd imagine there would have been some cues lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibreakstuff Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) My point was: If it's torqued to like 100+ft/lbs and had a huge cotter pin installed, the orientation of the bellevue washer probably matters nil. Esp when they were first made without the little "out" stamp. I mean if you had the cone washer backwards.... But again just do it the right way!Disclaimer: I navigated the second day of rally idaho on blown tie rods and a bad front wheel bearing in a GC impreza. So my ideas of safety are probably skewed. Edited March 13, 2014 by Ibreakstuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 if the cone washer has a lip on the big end , it should be replaced. the concaave spring washer should not be worn. Torque axle nut to 145 ft-lb, or whatever that translate to in n/m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 They wouldn't say "OUT" if it didn't matter. And all the later ones I have come across (1992+) have it stamped on them. Maybe because Subaru found too many problems with people putting them on wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibreakstuff Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 They wouldn't say "OUT" if it didn't matter. And all the later ones I have come across (1992+) have it stamped on them. Maybe because Subaru found too many problems with people putting them on wrong What % of ea82 cars were made after 1992? Just saying.. Torque the castle nut properly (my weight with a 2.5' breaker bar, ~120-150ft lbs) and use the proper cotter pin, and forget about it. Slight worn cone, flat belleville washer, won't matter. I beat the spoob out of my first 3 door, rallycross/recce/jumping/full lock debeads.. for 200k miles. And never once did the OUT stamp really matter. Hell if you wanted worried about the stock preload specs, put 2 worn ones like this )( and torque it down... same as new (or atleast close in preload). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibreakstuff Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I think the idea with the belleville washers is that if someone screws up and doesn't torque it properly, it will make up for it some and keep the wheel from flying off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 the cotter pin alone will not hod torque. the spring washer with the convex side agains the nit is what hlds the axle nut torque. without that, the drive torque will walk it loose. Here in the midwest, where there is rust, i usually don't bother with the cotter pin. usually they are too rusty to get out, so i shear them off by taking off the axle nut with a socket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibreakstuff Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Man, that sounds rough. I guess we have it easy out here on the west coast. I use a drift punch for any that are stubborn here, thats about as bad as it gets. How could you get that much leverage to shear them off, 10 foot pipe? It feels like I am going to break my breaker bar every time, just break them loose (with the pin removed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman18 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 We have the same issues with rust here. My impact gun will usually shear off the rusted pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Let me tell YOU guys about rust.Salt every winter. Rainy summers. I live .5 miles from the Hudson river and just a little more from the Atlantic Ocean.My car spent 3/4 of it's life on Staten Island. I have a rear axle stub so stuck in the axle cup from rust it has broken various tools while trying to remove it. (I *still* haven't gotten it off)To separate a ball joint I spent almost half an hour beating on the control arm with a sledgehammer. axle nuts, lugnuts, shock tower bolts, brake caliper bolts, fuhgeddaboutit. =P I broke 5 breaker bars in a row once on a mercury villager axle nut.This place sucks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Man, that sounds rough. I guess we have it easy out here on the west coast. I use a drift punch for any that are stubborn here, thats about as bad as it gets. How could you get that much leverage to shear them off, 10 foot pipe? It feels like I am going to break my breaker bar every time, just break them loose (with the pin removed). being half rusted away, when bending the pins straight, they usually break off. So when you go to pull it out from the loop side, that part breaks away. what is left between the castles just shears away when you turn the nut. Speaking of rusty nuts: (language warning) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I wonder if pulling the AWD fuse, and putting the car in reverse with the breaker bar on the ground would help?block up the other wheels and have the breaker bar so reverse will loosen the nut.Ive had to use a similar trick to get crank pulley bolts off before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 There's my life in a nutshell lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Torque the castle nut properly (my weight with a 2.5' breaker bar, ~120-150ft lbs) and use the proper cotter pin, and forget about it. Slight worn cone, flat belleville washer, won't matter. The cone washer MUST NOT have a ridge on it's face, or on it's beveled edge. If it does......it will catch and not seat into the hub. The sesating into the hub forces it to clamp tightly onto the axle shaft. This clamp force is what keeps the shaft from moving inside the hub. You can use a file to clean up the sides and face to get rid of any edges. Beveled washer is absolutely supposed to go only one way......dome out.....It keeps a spring loading on the cone.....install it backwards and it will be more likely top loosen up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 A lack of a cotter pin cost me a wheel bearing in my 3door coupe. The nut backed out enough for the bearing to spit out all the roller bearings. Whoops! This occurred today and i was forced to drive it home 10 miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 (edited) Whoops! . Good you were able to limp home! Edited March 16, 2014 by l75eya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukiru Posted March 16, 2014 Share Posted March 16, 2014 Only car I ever had a wheel loosen on was the 2wd XT. And since I check for play and slop often I caught that early enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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