Subruise Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) Hi Folks, Im trying to avoid longblocking a friend's new car. We bought it knowing the woodruff key/keyway had issues. the car fired up and ran, so I decided we could fix it with new parts and lots of torque. the new harmonic balancer still has a slight wobble but hasnt loosened at all. We are running into a cylinder 1 and 3 misfire (passenger side), the car bogs at low rpm but wakes right up if you push through it. Misfire was discovered via timing light. drivers side bank acts normal under the light. So far we have replaced the coil pack, igniter, harmonic balancer, timing gear, and woodruff key. Underhood fuel filter was full o rust, and has ben replaced. injectors were pulled and soaked in injector cleaner. timing is correct (lines, not arrows) sparkplugs were removed, visually inspected, re-gapped, and put back in. we also tried known good wires from another lego. This issue is intermittent, sometimes its fine, no matter how you drive it. what say ye? thanks, RV Edited March 18, 2014 by Subruise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Did you verify timing marks are lined up? Could also be a problem with the Igniter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 forgot to mention, thanks. weve tried several igniters and have confirmed correct timing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 On the ones ive done the drivers cam is always half a tooth off from the mark on the timing cover. Make sure the cam mark is to the right (drivers side) of the cover mark. If its to the left the timing will be off and cause misfires. I would also make sure the ends of the cam and crank sensors are clean. Try swapping them if that doesn't help. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted March 18, 2014 Author Share Posted March 18, 2014 will do, ill report back after tonights adventure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 turns out passenger (US) side timing IS off, hopefully re-timing rectifies the issue......how come it runs 100% sometimes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) Fuel mixture, air pressure, humidity that day? Or maybe it just thought you looked at it the wrong way. Actually its the former, there is a lot that goes into fine tuning the fuel mixure, and just a hair difference combined with not quite up to snuff compression due to the valve timing being 7.5 degrees off, (15 degrees out at the crank) makes all the difference between fire and misfire, or what the ECU perceives as a misfire. Edited March 19, 2014 by Fairtax4me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 reset, and rechecked timing. still no noticeable improvement but I wont know for sure til he drives it over here tomorrow. It seemed to not buck as much so i was thinking the ecu may be re-learning now that the timing has been corrected. or the timing gear has too much slop even though i tightened the beans out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 reset, and rechecked timing. still no noticeable improvement but I wont know for sure til he drives it over here tomorrow. It seemed to not buck as much so i was thinking the ecu may be re-learning now that the timing has been corrected. or the timing gear has too much slop even though i tightened the beans out of it. what "gear"? main crank gear/pulley is keyed with a woodruff key - should be no slop cam pulleys are also keyed with a pin - again, should be no slop Idler gear/pulley is bolted straight thru, but should spin smoothly/freely... smooth idler pulleys also bolted straight thru... the only one that "moves" is the tensioner pulley and if that is sloppy, it needs a new tensioner (the hydralic part). a sloppy/weak tensioner will allow the timing belt to jump unexpectedly, and usually at the worst possible moment...have had it happen... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 in my first post i explained about the woodruff key/ keyway being jacked up. i am aware there shouldnt be slop. Yes, the timing/crank sprocket is what i am referring to. I am currently operating on advice from a bunch of threads ive dug up, where members I trust say "torque the snot out of it when its in time and it shouldnt move" It is possible that the snout/keyway is too far gone for this one, in which case ill be swapping longblocks in the near future. I would go for a shortblock but the core is only 30 bucks at pnp so we are going to keep these heads as spares Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 Well, if you just got this car, there is no telling how long it has been sitting around without being driven much. Your "drive ability" may be caused by bad gas in the gas tank. Even a small amount of water, or old gas in the tank causes problems. If this is a possibility, add a gallon of E-85 gas-alcohol to a full tank of fresh gas. The E-85 helps absorb any water in the tank. I have done this with my 99 with the 2.5 motor a couple of times, and both times performance problems disappeared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 ill give it a shot. PO stated car was sitting for two months prior to purchase, after a soob mechanic friend of his noticed wobbly crankshaft pulley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted March 19, 2014 Share Posted March 19, 2014 You do have to make sure to shove the key and sprocket up against the unworn side of the key slot in the crank. If the key slot in the sprocket is worn then the sprocket should be replaced. With misfires still on the same cylinders after fixin the timing. You might just try a new set of injectors. (Used should be fine) make sure to use new O-rings, and replace the o-rings around the rails. Pull the rails with injectors still in them to avoid filling the cylinders with fuel. Actually before that spray some cleaner around the intake manifold gaskets to make sure they aren't leaking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 gave up and longblocked it. all is well. will try some redneckery on the other one to see if maybe i can save it. If not, Ill be looking for a 2.5 block soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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