Got a new project - need to identify clutch or trans issue

[AdventureSubaru]

Long story short - I'm picking up a 2001 Legacy Outback 5 speed tomorrow. The guy selling it advertised it as having a "bad transmission" and said the car would not move. As I looked it over the car sat in neutral and the engine ran smooth. but the transmission had rattling/light grinding sounds coming from it.

 

Am I right in thinking that if the issue truly were transmission and not clutch related that it shouldn't really be making noise since in neutral there should be no engagement from the tranny? I'm getting a good deal on the car even if the trans is toast, but all the better if I'm only looking at a new clutch. The car should be in my driveway tomorrow evening. Any good ways to test and see whether i'm looking at a clutch job or whole trans? Or do i just tear into it and see what we're looking at?

Edited April 2, 2014 by AdventureSubaru

[Fairtax4me]

In Nuetral the mainshaft is still spinning because its is connected mechanically to the engine via the clutch.

 

Possible scenarios:

Clutch disc is Fedexd.

Center differential kersploded.

Transfer gears wiped out.

You really have to have some talent to chew the 1-5 gears out of one of these to totally keep it from moving, but I have seen pictures where people managed to do it. Usually its just first or second gear.

 

How to tell which it is without pulling the trans.

Clutch: Just listen around the bellhousing area while someone else works the clutch pedal. Or you can pull the starter out, or pull the boot off of the clutch release lever and look in with a flashlight. You'll see piles of fuzz everywhere if the clutch disc is shredded.

 

Center diff/transfer gears: Jack up one front wheel. Put the trans in gear (engine OFF). Try to turn the wheel. It should only move an inch or two and stop. If it turns, and you hear a bunch of grindy rattly sounds from the back end of the trans, that could be center diff or the transfer gears.

If it doesn't turn, put it back down, try the same with one of the rear wheels. Make sure the park brake is off. If the rear wheel turns, and you hear grindy sounds from the rear of the trans, that's most likely the transfer gears.

[AdventureSubaru]

Great! Exactly the sort of troubleshooting I was hoping for. Thank you, as always.

 

Can't wait to get it home and start messing around with it.

[AdventureSubaru]

 

 

Towed it home and added to the fleet.

 

Here are the findings so far-

 

Pulled the clutch fork boot. Did not see fuzz.

 

Jacked up the front wheel. The tried putting the car in gear. It does not want to go into first, second or reverse. I can hear the bushings squeak from the pressure but it doesn't go in. Third, fourth and fifth go in no problem.

 

With the trans in third, I rotated the wheel about 180 degrees but did not hear any grinding.

 

Thoughts?

[Fairtax4me]

Well, that says somethin ain't right.

You should not be able to spin the wheel at all with the trans in gear.

1st reverse and 2nd gears are 1,2,3 at the front of the trans with the synchros in between.

Possible the reverse idler gear bit the dust and has filled the 1 and 2 synchros with metal chunks. (Which could explain not going into any of those gears)

Only a theory from across internetland though.

 

Probably need to drain the trans fluid and see if there are chunks in it.

[AdventureSubaru]

Got a good used trans and have since swapped it in. Car is drivable and overall great shape. Pending smog and registration will soon be my DD and off roader.

 

When I drained the fluid, I certainly got some chunks out. Any chance that the front diff is worth salvaging from the old trans, or will the whole thing be shot? Any other parts that may be worth keeping before the old trans gets scrapped?

[idosubaru]

rear extension housing with VLSD is certainly worth keeping in case you have torque bind or want to sell it, there's always someone with torque bind eventually needing a VLSD center diff.  the VLSD's are sealed units so they can't be contaminated internally at least.

[Fairtax4me]

Front diff isn't any use without the pinion shaft and that requires just too much work to swap to another trans.

Keep the center diff and transfer gears if they aren't chewed up. They swap into many of the 99-09ish extension housings and are worth a few bucks to someone with torque bind or a failed snap ring that kersploded the center diff and ate the transfer gears.