Subaru Transmissons

[mwbean]

I am looking at buying a used subaru for my daughter, was just wondering if any of you

Professional Mechanics know the average life span of a 90's transmission.

thanks

[Olnick]

Sorry mw, but I can't resist answering this one.  There is no average!  And if there were, it would be meaningless.  Everything comes down to how well a vehicle has been maintained and cared for.

 

But excellent idea, getting your daughter a Subaru!  Ten years ago we got our daughter a '92 Legacy and later it was passed on to our son.  We kept it in great mechanical condition.  Safe, dependable, nice handling car--engine ran like new and tranny (manual) was smooth as butter.  Fantastic car.  (Still would be if an idiot Honda hadn't veered across the centerline and totaled it.)

 

If you find a car you like check it over as thoroughly as you can--test drive it, try every gear--is it smooth, any odd noises?  Test it for torque bind.  Check fluids, look for leaks.  Talk to the seller, ask about history, repairs.  Even take it to an independent mechanic and pay for an inspection.

 

Subarus are pretty well built cars.  Good luck.  Hope you find "the right car" for your girl!

[heartless]

Olnick is right - there is no such thing as an "average".

 

in general - a well maintained car will go for a very long time, a poorly maintained car wont - but there are always exceptions to every "rule"

 

I have a 1990 Legacy LS wagon with over 245,000 on it that has never had a tranny issue - still runs & drives fine, tranny shifts smooth as silk... this car was so-so on maintenance & kind of abused - the po drove it with blown air suspension, trashing the exhaust, and it had a few other minor issues as well.

 

I also have a 1995 Legacy L wagon with a little over 200,000 on it, that had to have the tranny replaced due to no reverse...this car was supposedly well cared for, maintained at a dealer for most of its life - notations in the warranty booklet support this.

 

exceptions to the "rule"... (both are automatics, btw)

 

when searching for a vehicle, check it over carefully - does it look to be in decent shape - inside and out - given the mileage?

pop the hood and take a good look around - is the engine bay spotless? (red flag!) or is it completely covered in dirt/grime? (another red flag) a well maintained car wont be spotless, but it wont be filthy either. Check oil level, accessory belts, power steering fluid, etc - clean? dirty? proper levels? belts in decent condition and proper tension? check battery connections - everything tight? clean or lots of crud around the posts? how old is the battery? most batteries will have a date sold (month/year) somewhere on them - either as a sticker or engraved right into the case.

Look at all four tires - are they all the same brand, style, size, and treadwear? how much tread is left on them? any excessive wear on any one or two?

Next, get in and turn the key on - are all the warning lights working properly? (come on for a sec or two, then go out?)

does it start easily? how is the idle after starting? is it smooth, or does it fluctuate? any warning lights that stay lit/flash after startup? (CEL, ABS, AT temp light for automatic)

drive the car and see how it handles, how the transmission feels - does it shift smoothly/easily? how do the brakes feel when stopping/slowing? does it pull to one side - either while accelerating, driving steady, or stopping? are there any vibrations?

Check the operation of everything! Lights, heat, AC, wipers (dont forget the rear for a wagon), radio, seat adjustments, everything that you can think of. For the wagons, check the rear seat operation for folding down flat - earlier 90s the seat bottom will pull up (there should be a small strap loop near the center to pull it up), then the seat backs fold down (adjustable headrests would have to be removed for this)

are there any maintenace/repair records for the car? what was done and when?

And I agree with taking a potential purchase to a mechaninc of your choosing for a full inspection before purchase - if the seller wont let you do that - walk away.

 

a lot of people get thier heads in the clouds when looking at a car - stay grounded and be critical. Once you have gone over the car and have a list of pros and cons, you can decide what you can live with and whether the price is worth it to you

[mwbean]

I am looking at buying a used subaru for my daughter, was just wondering if any of you

Professional Mechanics know the average life span of a 90's transmission.

thanks

Just a follow up. My daughter wants a Legacy wagon, with a AT.  Also, I already have two Legacy wagons.

one is a 1992 with a 2.2L engine, the other a 1997 with a 2.5.  The 92 was my first and i got it for $1500 it had

a great body and interior but and it drove ok but i soon realized that the guy i bougnt it from was a crook.

he had put black tape over the CEL and since I was a subie newbie i did'nt know where to look until i got a

manual.  once it did a check i got multiple codes and ended spending over $700.00 in parts alone. I did most

of the work my self and bought lots of parts from Rock auto. but now the trans it jerks when shifting from 2nd to

3rd. (see my privious posts) I drive like a old lady and don't have to drive it very much or very far but know

eventually will have to have it replaced but is in california (where I work, Long story) and don't want to pay

the outragious prices of repair there in the bay area.

 

the second subie like i said is a 97 and about 9 mos ago my son was driving it and it deveoped a leak at the

bottom of the radiator and he overheated it and you can probaly guess what hapened next. yea, i had to have

the heads removed and machined. Cost me $ 2500.00

So, even though I still believe subare is a good car, I just don't want to get stung again.

 

so, i'll ask again if there are any PROFESSONAL MECANICS WHO WORK ON THESE CARS EVERY DAY

Who can tell me what to look out for on a 1990 -1999 subaru and how to weed out the crap from the ok

that being said i know no car is going to be perfect and i willing to spend some money on it.

Thank you very Much!!

[johnceggleston]

 

Who can tell me what to look out for on a 1990 -1999 subaru and how to weed out the crap from the ok

 

TIP #1:

buy a car with the ej22, 2.2L engine, preferably 90 - 96, (non-interference).

these engines will not die unless you run them out of oil.

they are easy to work on and are very forgiving.

 

there is a following of subaru owners who prefer the 90 - 94 cars siting more ''frills'' than in the 95 - 99 years.

 

 

TIP #2:

buy from some one you know or some one recommended by some one you know.

 

i saw an ad recently for a 95 or a 96 legacy sedan.

it looked pristine,

low mileage,

for $4000.

being sold by a very knowledgeable and very frequent contributor to the outback forum, iirc.

pricey for the year, but need nothing.

[MilesFox]

The trans may be buggy frpom sticy or slow solenoids, and the trans is electronically operated. Inspwct the duty c slenoid and the clutch packs at the rear of the trans for wear. The clutch bsket can wear grooves, causing the 4wd to stick. The clutch pack is much like a motorcycle.

 

Aside from lackof routine maintenance or fluid changes, how a trans is driven can affect its performance. It should be brought up to temp often enough if seeing mainly short drives, and it should get a good romp now and again so that all the parts can wear evenly, pressures build up, and everything gets flexed.

 

I would suggest in your case, run a trans cleaner through it, gor for some spirited driving, and then change the fluids. Don't bother with dropping the pan if it is not leaking, as the 'filter' is just a screen, unless you need to get at the solenoids if they are your prrroblem based on troubleshooting.

 

Also, chenk the front diff oil which is the short dipstick on top of the trnas. many a trans failure can be attributed to neglect of the front diff by simply not knowing it is ther eto check and service.

 

some of the older trans could have a internal sela failure causing a slow to engage forward or reverse from park.

[heartless]

so, i'll ask again if there are any PROFESSONAL MECANICS WHO WORK ON THESE CARS EVERY DAY

Who can tell me what to look out for on a 1990 -1999 subaru and how to weed out the crap from the ok

that being said i know no car is going to be perfect and i willing to spend some money on it.

Thank you very Much!!

 

no need to yell.

 

But, if you want a "professional" opinion, and only a "professional" opinion, you need to go to a professional shop, not an online forum.

 

the online forum can and will give you some good advice IF you are willing to be open minded.

 

Good luck and hope you find what you are looking for.

[jarl]

From what I have read -and experienced- some '99 automatic gearboxes have a problem with an internal seal (or was it an o'ring?) that translates in delayed forward engagement and/or hard downshifts.People have been successful correcting this with trans-x, but in my case it didn't work

[mwbean]

"People have been successful correcting this with trans-x, but in my case it didn't work"

 

Jarl. so what was the final fix?

[Fairtax4me]

Automagic, 250k+. Only real problem is torque bind and that's pretty easily repairable.

 

Manual 175-225k depending on fluid changes and who drove it. Some go longer with good maintenance and fluid changes. Most will have worn synchros due to poor shifting habits, and many will have the mainshaft ball bearing start making noise by 200k. Usually last 15-25k miles after that and will start popping out of gear.

[idosubaru]

Get an EJ22, excellent vehicles.

 

I'd lean towards buying a one owner vehicles, buying it from the owner.  If you have any capacity at all to assess the seller and vehicle you'll get a better deal.

Any car from a dealer was traded in, bought at auction..or worse!  Someone selling their old car in front of their house with kids playing outside knows they have a good vehicle.  That's how i get the best deal - it takes a little effort and i'm generally good at working with people and cars, and have a flexible enough schedule to permit - so I realize it's not a good fit for everyone.

 

EJ22's:

1996 and earlier are the best in terms of any possible catastrophic repairs, they basically don't have anything to worry about.  If you can keep it from running out of oil or overheating it'll last as long as you care to do the normal maintanenance stuff on it.

 

1997-1998 EJ22's are equally reliable but are interference engines, if the timing belt breaks you'll have internal engine damage - bent valves.  this can be nearly entirely avoided though by simply installing a complete timing belt kit.  they're $125 on rockauto and amazon but then there's labor which it seems you have to pay a premium for unfortunately. 

 

***Ideally - i install a full timing belt kit and water pump, reseal the oil pump, replace cam seals and cam cap orings, all at once because it's all accessible witht he timing belt removed and is required for near-new reliability.  and it's cheap - $125 kit plus some seals, that's awesome price for the reliability.

 

1999-2001 EJ22's are very good engines too but maybe slightly riskier in terms of catastrophic repairs.

 

 

"People have been successful correcting this with trans-x, but in my case it didn't work"

 

Jarl. so what was the final fix?

 

you can basically ignore that comment - it only applies to 1999 Subaru transmissions and a very low percentage of early 2000 bleed overs which you'll never see.  and - since it's mostly on EJ25's, you'll be avoiding them.  and the Phase II 99 EJ22 isn't quite as robust or economical as 1998 and earlier so if you're this focused on reliability and not having a bad experience you'll likely be avoiding them anyway. 

[mwbean]

Here is  a quote from another thread:

 

check
the id tag under the hood. if the trans number starts with TZ102Z2...
then any 97-99 with the same 7 digits will work. if the trans number is
TZ1A2... (or something like that) then you have a phase 2 trans and have
to use the same. (phase 2 trans wiring harness is different). '99 phase
2 was a 1 matbe 2 year trans, by 01 they have a different part number, i
think. all my soobys are 95 -97 so i tend to forget info '00 and
beyond.

why do you need to replace it?

 

Question #1 What is the difference between Phase 1 and Phase 2 4eat transmissions ?

 

Question # 2 What years on Legacy outbacks did they install Phase 1 and Phase 2 and or was there

overlap on production years ?

 

Question # 3 Why did Subaru install rear drives with different gear ratio's ?

 

Thanks

[jarl]

Yo! I resent that comment

So far there has been no fix The car has been running like that for more than two years. I should probably try the trans-x again, but I'm still debating whether I should replace the transmission instead. I just got a cherry picker to work on another soobie I bought, so I'm thinking of going back to the '99 when I'm done. I need to re-seal the back of the engine, and I may decide to replace the transmission then.

 

you can basically ignore that comment - it only applies to 1999 Subaru transmissions and a very low percentage of early 2000 bleed overs which you'll never see.  and - since it's mostly on EJ25's, you'll be avoiding them.  and the Phase II 99 EJ22 isn't quite as robust or economical as 1998 and earlier so if you're this focused on reliability and not having a bad experience you'll likely be avoiding them anyway. 

[mwbean]

The

031 unit I pulled out of a MY 1993, early 1993 production date, Legacy L

AWD Wagon (same exact set up as my car per buttons on shifter, etc...)

My MY 1993 Legacy L AWD Wagon, but late 1992 production date, car has a

TCU ending in 011. Just thought someone might have a database of what

changes to the car included an update to the control unit requiring a

part # change?

 

 

slap

that baby in there - all 90-94's should interchange just fine and with

yours being the exact same car, sounds like a no-brainer to me.

 

unfortunately

databases like you're looking for are non-existent. transmission

interchange questions come up all the time and there's rarely a

definitive answer, often people just say "get the exact same

transmission" to be sure, that's the only sure way.

 

I Think I found a partial answer  to my question Provided by Our Friend grossgary

during surfing other threads.

 

here is a list but is hard to decifer. bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&p=410885#p410885

can someone clarify it for me?

Edited April 6, 2014 by mwbean

[johnceggleston]

phase 2 trans are ''new and improved'',

and they have more speed sensors and an external spin on filter.

 

the phase 1 auto trans was used in the 90 - 98 cars, both ej22 and ej25 engines.

the phase 2 trans was introduced in 99.

99 was a transition year so there may have been some phase 1 that year as well.

 

the final drive ratios can manipulate the fuel economy, and power output.

in 96 when they introduce the ej25 engine,

they also introduced a lower final drive ratio for the auto trans, 4.44,

and larger tires on the outback, 205/70/15.

but with all of these changes the fuel economy did not change very much.

 

 

why do you want to know?

are you going to buy a car based on the auto trans it has?

[tirod]

Unfortunately, working mechanics don't hang around on forums after work answering questions. They usually have other hobbies far removed from the stress of what they do for a living. To get their opinion, you have to take the car to them and pay. 

 

Any car with 200,000 miles is about 3/4ths or more used up and has the salvage yard in sight. While any of us can check numerous things, regular maintenance actually covers up things like having dark burnt fluid, fines on the magnet, or contaminants trapped in the filter. Even if the pan is pulled, you can't see the state of the clutch packs or gears. And driving it may not reveal any concerns. 

 

I say that because I bought a Forester with 220,000 miles on it and it ran very well, no codes, no obvious problems. Until one day the engine lost the #2 bearing. Replaced it, and three weeks later, the transmission failed. Replaced it. I wasn't prepared to spend another $1,900 dollars on a car I had owned less than six months and do all the work, but I did. The answer I needed to pay attention to was right there on the odometer.  

 

I don't wish all that work on another owner, but it's possible, and even the opinion of a professional wouldn't have forseen it. it's a matter of knowing that the law of averages says cars with over 200,000 miles - these days - aren't going to go for years longer without major repairs. The majority won't go 300,000, so the odds are really that you can and will be in for a lot of work and expense in the near future. 

 

And that is why they are priced cheap. There is no expectation of another 100,000 miles, so they are not valued as highly as one with just 100,000 miles. They are valued much less. It becomes a simple matter of you get what you pay for. It's not the opinion of a professional mechanic, it's just a matter of having owned cars for over 40 years. 

[idosubaru]

why are you asking about Phase I and Phase II differences?  In general they're minor and not a big deal worth worrying about.

 

gear ratio often matches the engine and large parameters like that i think - EJ25's always get 4.44 automatics for instance

manuals always get lower final drive ratios.

 

in a sense final drive ratio is a little ambiguous because gearing is also affect inside the transmission, but adjusting the final drive ratio allows you to keep the main chunk of the trans the same and fine tune via the ring and pinions.

 

Yo! I resent that comment
.

 

oh good! i was wondering how to say "that doesn't apply here", "ignore" doesn't sound good, glad you didn't take it like i was addressing your experience or comment, but rather his which probably doesn't include 99's and that issue.

[jarl]

No hard feelings, Gary Sensei

 

I think there's a miscomunication somewhere. My understanding is that the OP is looking for a used pre-'00 Legacy, and he already have two others on his driveway, so technically the '99 is still on the table and he should be aware of that year's transmission issues. If the year limit is stringent (i.e. wants a car similar to the ones he has) then he should probably avoid the '99 (EJ25D and potentially flaky transmission). If he wants utmost reliability then he should stay with a non-interference engine, meaning an EJ22 up to some time in '96

 

Now my question to the OP would be: is the year limit set in stone?

[MilesFox]

I am looking at buying a used subaru for my daughter, was just wondering if any of you

Professional Mechanics know the average life span of a 90's transmission.

thanks

MAintenance records are key. 200,000 miles doesn't mean the car is used up. likely with high enough miles, it already has lots of new wear items like struts, brakes, timing belts, wheel bearing, etc. The car is wonderfully easy to service for the mechanically inclined. Regular fluid change, and driving habits by previous owners have more to do with it than how many miles.

 

I once saw a clean looking legay in a junkyard, and was wondering why it was there. Upon closer inspection, it had 350,000 mi on it.

 

I had a 94 lgacy with a slow to engage stmptom with 105,ooo mi. old car plus low miles equals sitting and or not having been serviced yet. Hogher miles reflect the level of maintence to achieve those iles, and actively driving keeps wear even and prevents dry rot and corrosion. my 98 forester trans mission works great, with 250,000 mi. the folks' 98 forester just rolled 200,000 mi since they had it from 175,000 no problem.

 

I would think your 95-98 trans would be more reliable, as my experience with a failed duty and slow to engage(internal seal) were with first gen legacy. Ideal year to have is 95-96, which is a 2nd gen legacy, but still not interference and backward compatible with 90-94 first gen legacy engine. The 97 and up are interference designs that can damage the engine from timing belt failure, versus just replace the belt with a non-interference.

[zombieforce]

As a professional mechanic who works on 2-6 subarus a week plus my own car I have yet to have an auto trans fail on me I have a couple of customers cars with torque bind issues but if they dont complain I dont push it on them. Mine has 175k on it and its doi g great. Still wish it was a manual, but it will do for now.

[98brightonshiny]

I have a 98 Legacy with a bad AT. I tracked down the trans out of a 95 impreza. Will it work? Whats the difference between the two transmissions(speedo, torque convertor, final drive) Both are 2.2s.

[efseiler]

I had a 96 OBW with a 4EAT with a bad solenoid.  It would bind a little on turns and 'clunk' when shifting into gears.

 

I drove it like that for over 100,000 miles...

 

It also had a 2.2L engine in there instead of the stock 2.5 and it drove just fine....

 

 

 

I took good care of it tho...unlike some people I know who just jump in them and drive like bats out of hell... 

 

--Damien

[johnceggleston]

 

I have a 98 Legacy with a bad AT. I tracked down the trans out

of a 95 impreza. Will it work? Whats the difference between the two

transmissions(speedo, torque convertor, final drive) Both are 2.2s.

 

if the info you have provided is accurate,

there is no difference in the two trans.

they are exactly the same.

 

what is wrong with your trans?

[Aluxes]

This should help. It lists the MY and trans info. https://www.dropbox.com/s/1ia75cro4n1deou/TransmissionIDChart_Public.pdf

[Fairtax4me]

That only lists manual transmissions, so not much use on a thread about automatics.

 

But it is a fairly recently updated list, which is nice, since many of the lists like that in the past were not complete or didnt cover recent models. It looks like that one covers up to at least 2010. Good for reference info. Thanks for posting the link!