junkmanjason Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Under load my 1989 subaru gl makes rocker noise . Sounds like valves need adjusting but I don't think they are adjustable or are they ? It has a new oil pump seal .It's not ticking or anything . I did the belts + and cam seals . It sounds worse with lower grade gas . Is my timing just off by a bit or just bad rockers .Almost sounds like it's dieseling.It only has 230 000 km.It runs and drives fine with no back fires.I really need help on this one,thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Check your timing. If you had the belts apart, you may be clocked a tooth too advanced. try retarding the disty back all the way. timing should be 20deg btdc. The engine will run past 35 degrees. This would only be possible if you had removed the disty, but the range of adjustment at normal position will allow the timing up thru 30 degrees. Please follow the ea82 timing belt procedure and double check all your marks. This is in regard to pinging, as you describe dieseling and fuel grade. Otherwise, if it were lifter tick, rebuild the cam towers and replace the o-ring if you hadn't already, and clean out the tiny passages on the pressure relief pipe that spans the cam tower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkmanjason Posted April 15, 2014 Author Share Posted April 15, 2014 Thanks for all the help ,I'll give it a shot .I hope I didn't damage the engine. I've been driving it for months like that. It seems to have less power than it should also . It's my first Subaru build so do you think I should pull the engine again to do the timing belts ?I'll try cleaning the pressure relief pipe also . Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 (edited) the timing belts are way too easy to warrant pulling the engine unless you're bored or have a bad back and don't want to lean over the radiator support...but if it's that bad then i'd imagine you're not pulling an engine either? EA/ER timing belt can be done in 45 minutes and 20 minutes with no covers. rusty timing cover bolts are the main problem. reattach with zip ties so they're never an issue again or just run without them like many of us do. *** Any check engine light? *** Plugs and wires age and brand? check timing. if it's HLA ticking - though it seems like you know what that is and have ruled it out? but if it's HLA ticking then approach is this:1. reseal oil pump 2. replace oil pump 3. reseal cam towers i've fixed 100% of EA/ER ticking by steps 1 & 2. #3 i'd suspect needs to have high mileage or abuse. Edited April 15, 2014 by grossgary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkmanjason Posted April 15, 2014 Author Share Posted April 15, 2014 The engine light works and doesn't come on .The plugs and wires are less then half a year old.When we put the mickey mouse gasket in do you think it didn't seal right ? The engine isn't ticking when idling .I'm going to try the belts ,next will be a new pump and gasket . We did the cam tower seals but that will be my next check .It has 230 000 km and was front wheel drive so it was never off road .It passed air care with flying colors after we did the work . Thanks for all the help saving my 4x4 sw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 how long has it been doing this? time and mileage? it would be nice to know if it's related to once cylinder, one bank, or can move/vary? anyway you think you could narrow that down, like if it'll do it while revving the throttle under the hood? normally your symptoms don't sound like typical ticking if it never does it at idle and only at high rpm's. so i'm not certain that's where to look. if you suspect the pump (again, I'm not there to see/hear/drive it), then yes a resealed pump can still cause ticking. i'm not sure why, i presume the rear mount plate gets slightly warped and doesn't allow full and consistent pressure on the gasket. but regardless of why, what i know for certain is that many, many times replacing the oil pump will solve ticking in EA/ER Subaru engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallonX Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 In my case it was a lean run condition, might be yours to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkmanjason Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 Hi the run lean condition was that on an injected engine? How did you fix it ?Thanks for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkmanjason Posted April 16, 2014 Author Share Posted April 16, 2014 It's been happening for a while ,about 3000 miles . It was hard to hear in the winter with the heater on and the windows up . Now the weather is better and the windows down it sounds bad .Oil is fine and golden ,no metal . No overheating or anything. I could try and make a video of what it sounds like . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobiedubie Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 To upgrade the installation a notch, there are two additional oil passages between the camtower and the cylinder head, that have no O-ring, nor can one be provided. So when assembling, you daub a very light about of the same gasket maker that you are using on your camtower, around the common flat contact areas that surround those oil passage holes. This improves the oil pressure to the hydraulic lifters. When your hydraulic lifters go bad, they do not fill up with oil no matter what you do, however. The bad ones will be soft when you take them out and squeeze down on the plunger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallonX Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 The fuel additive I swear by... B12 Chemtool. Pour a bottle of that in next fill up (if available where your at of course) followed up by a quart of Marvel's in the fill up after that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkmanjason Posted April 19, 2014 Author Share Posted April 19, 2014 I'm thinking it's time for a new pump but lifters might be part of the problem also . I'll look for that fuel additive next fill. I'll check for the oil passages and give that a try too.Is there a cheaper place to get a pump and lifters ?Thanks for all the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 To upgrade the installation a notch, there are two additional oil passages between the camtower and the cylinder head, that have no O-ring, nor can one be provided. So when assembling, you daub a very light about of the same gasket maker that you are using on your camtower, around the common flat contact areas that surround those oil passage holes. This improves the oil pressure to the hydraulic lifters. This is not recommended by Subaru.......Or anyone else I've ever heard from on this board. Pretty much just this guys theory.........Decide if you really want to try or not. I personally would advise against it. Those are tiny little passeges with ZERO space between the faces......Where is the sealant gonna go? sploog out the sides and into the middle of the passage. More likely cause HLA problems than solve them with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I'm thinking it's time for a new pump but lifters might be part of the problem. it's the oil pump. i wouldn't even think about HLA's unless you have a compelling reason. oil pumps fix this countless times for many people/vehicles, i'm not talking from like 2 experiences/vehicles, it's many vehicles and forum members too. here's a write up i did: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/136547-ea82-er27-ticking-tod-hydraulic-valve-lash-hla-noise-diagnose-and-repair/ if you still want to diagnose, stick a stethoscope on the valve covers and tell us which HLA's are ticking, which side, which cylinder, or is it all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobiedubie Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 This is not recommended by Subaru.......Or anyone else I've ever heard from on this board. Pretty much just this guys theory.........Decide if you really want to try or not. I personally would advise against it. Those are tiny little passeges with ZERO space between the faces......Where is the sealant gonna go? sploog out the sides and into the middle of the passage. More likely cause HLA problems than solve them with this. This is not theory. A theory has no experiment that has proven it to be true. I have proven it to be true over and over. Gloyale repeatedly keeps criticizing me on this. Apparently, because he does not apply those little daubs. When I first took apart my factory installed cylinder heads, I noticed that the mechanic had applied a gasket maker around those oil passages. It is such a simple thing to do that takes virtually no time or money once you have it apart, that you would be a fool not to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darsdoug Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Don't touch sploog. Sploog cursed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I think it's a case where it doesn't matter, so you both could be considered right based on personal preference. Given that it's not needed, never came that way from the factory, many millions of miles have been driven over decades giving many orders of magnitude of statistical weight on one side, and it causes no issues, there doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to recommend it as a standard procedure to a generic audience which would include less skilled/experienced people who would be more likely to improperly use it and induce risk. On an interesting side note, the XT6 has gaskets on all of those ports, all 3 (6 total/3 per side) in the XT6. One could buy the ones for the XT6 which are identical and use them in an EA82. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darsdoug Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Check your timing. If you had the belts apart, you may be clocked a tooth too advanced. try retarding the disty back all the way. timing should be 20deg btdc. The engine will run past 35 degrees. This would only be possible if you had removed the disty, but the range of adjustment at normal position will allow the timing up thru 30 degrees. Please follow the ea82 timing belt procedure and double check all your marks. This is in regard to pinging, as you describe dieseling and fuel grade. Otherwise, if it were lifter tick, rebuild the cam towers and replace the o-ring if you hadn't already, and clean out the tiny passages on the pressure relief pipe that spans the cam tower Be sure to get the correct "O" ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallonX Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Don't touch sploog. Sploog cursed! Evidently you've never used squeeze cheese... Pet term for "The Right Stuff" XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darsdoug Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Evidently you've never used squeeze cheese... Pet term for "The Right Stuff" XD I've only been using Ultra Grey. Mostly on EA82 cam towers. I HAVE used Permatex silicon copper spray on a couple EJ22 HG jobs I did last summer. (Although Fairtax predicted the HG's were destined for failure due to my use of the copper spray). BUT after approx. 5000 miles each of freeway driving they are both still running strong. I drove thru Rochester last weeked on my way to check out the Lucky Eagle. Nice place. Didn't win much though. Walked out two dollars ahead after playing the slots for a couple hours. I really need to stop doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkmanjason Posted April 21, 2014 Author Share Posted April 21, 2014 Thanks for all the help guys . We did the cam tower o ring thing when we did the belts . Also the mickey mouse gasket for the oil pump .First time the gasket got messed up so I had to get another one. It was done right the second time "Hahaha".I think the oil pump is just weak.I think that will be my first step .I hope that's what's wrong then I won't have to touch anything else .Thanks again ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 21, 2014 Share Posted April 21, 2014 Thanks for all the help guys . We did the cam tower o ring thing when we did the belts .! you probably didn't replace that oring. you probably did the cam CAP oring, the one held in place by a couple 10mm bolts right behind the cam sprocket? it's easily replaced with a timing belt job - if that's the one you replaced, that's not the one that's being discussed. the cam TOWER oring is a small metal-reinforced oring at the lower corner of the cam carrier. you have to completely remove the cam case assembly and all the rocker arms fall out (or you know ahead of time and plan accordingly). it's a much larger job than just the timing belt/cam cap oring. but nonethelss - i've never had to replace those to fix TOD so i'm doubtful you'll have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junkmanjason Posted April 23, 2014 Author Share Posted April 23, 2014 I might just get lucky and only need a new pump. I'll try that first . Thanks for everything ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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