Is push button 4x4 worth "off road" modifications? '92 Loyale

[Great White Buffalo]

I'm sure this has been covered extensively within these forums so forgive my poor eyesight and plausible brazen laziness. To the point...

 

I have a 1992 Loyale 5-spd with the push button 4x4...switch in the top of the shifter. This is the vacuum actuated variety and I've always been more trusting of 4x4 that uses a mechanical linkage. That said, would it be worth investing in a slight lift and larger tires for off-roading or should I instead hunt down an 80s GL with the Hi-Lo range? I've seen Loyales lifted and off roading, but I figured I'd fish around for input from you gentlemen/ladies (don't know if there's any ladies with Subis out there, just covering my PC basis). I bought this wagon for $450 off of CraigsList back in July of last year and it has been good to me. I really want to get back into off roading but dont want to waste money on the wrong rig. If this particular wagon isn't great for off roading, I'll just go ahead and invest in a truck again unless I can find a decent GL locally and revive it.

 

Thoughts? Thanks again. Take care.

 

- Buffalo

[bratman18]

Just swap in in a 5spd dual range transmission and you'll be good to go. It bolts right in with no modification.

[Great White Buffalo]

Just swap in in a 5spd dual range transmission and you'll be good to go. It bolts right in with no modification.

How much would one of those transmissions run me? Would that be from a GL?

[bratman18]

Usually a couple hundred or so. Yes, from any 85-98 ea82 GO non turbo.

[Scooner]

Yeah, what bratman said. I have a 92' Loyale with a dual range from an 88' in it, way better than that pushbutton deal!

 

But then again my first subie was a 90' Loyale with the pushbutton and i offroaded that car like no other and it did awesome, completely stock haha. I even moved the pushbutton to the dash just for fun. You're basically just gaining the low range and manual shifting into 4WD by going dual range.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Scooner

[apintonut]

If you don't drive on the freeway every day you can run a 4 speed d/r too

Edited May 8, 2014 by apintonut

[Scooner]

Correct me if im wrong but you're also going to have to change your rear diff to match the tranny. I can't remember what loyales came with but i'm thinking the GL's were different, you're going to have to check the tag on the diff and see what number it says.

[bratman18]

Nope they both had 3.90 so just swap the 5spd dual range in and you're good to go. The turbos had 3.70. The 4 spd tranny isn't as strong and you'd need a 4 spd drive shaft as well, definitely stick with the 5spd.

Edited May 8, 2014 by bratman18

[wagonist]

But double check the diff ratio of the tranny you buy. Easy enough to do by removing the sump plug, spinning the shaft, and counting the teeth

39 teeth = 3.9

37 teeth = 3.7

 

All of our trannies after 87 were 3.7, so not everywhere is the same. And who knows after 20 years whether a tranny was still original

Edited May 9, 2014 by wagonist

[djellum]

if your just going to do a 2 inch lift and some larger rims/tires then Id just run the trans for a while.  eventually you will want the dual range but it swaps in as easily later as it does now.  Tires and rims are pretty easy to come by, and a 2 inch lift can be made for about $30 of steel so both of these are the cheaper option (well tires may not be as cheap as the trans but they are much easier.

 

if you find a trans though, and you have the cash id get that started.

[Scooner]

Nice, thanks Bratman! Learned something new today, that's why i like this site. Now that i'm thinking of it i have two of these diffs in my garage, one is stock and one is a welded "lincoln" locker. I have absolutely no use for them but im hesistant on taking them to the junk yard.

[AdventureSubaru]

I have a good (62k)  dual range 5 speed in Illinois if you're interested.

 

The push button is fine for going through snowy roads and dirt trails etc. If you're expecting to do any real off road stuff though, that dual range makes a world of difference and will pay for itself by saving you broken parts and burned up clutch discs. High range off roading makes you take things a lot faster and use throttle to get over stuff more than traction. (Which beats on the suspension and body etc.)  The only way to go slowly is to ride the clutch - fine for emergencies or times when you're in a pinch, but will quickly kill your clutch if that's how you have to off road.

 

The gearing is subies is nice and low. I seem to recall topping out around 20mph in low 4th gear of my old 83 wagon. Low gearing lets you take your time and do it right.

[AKghandi]

yeah what they all said.

 

dual range is the way to go plus the loyales are a little more stripped out than the GLs. less options and such. luckily mines bassicly a dl except it has power mirrors and a dual range, so its pretty light too. i got no power nothing not even steering.

 

in 1st low with 29" tires my carbed(less hp) 86 wagon will climb up some pretty steep stuff. steeper than jeeps can manage without flipping backwards.

 

5th low tops at about 50

 

very very worth it. and its actually not very hard. i dropped 2 and installed one in less than 8 hrs with minimal help/

[Logan K]

I just finished a 5-speed d/r swap on my loyale, its an easy job even for a half-brain wanna be mechanic like me. You will need some new interior pieces, I pulled my trans and everything else I needed from nw auto recyclers in lake Stevens, payed somewhere around 120 for the trans if I remember correctly. Totally worth it if you plan on running big tires.

[nick1208]

Check out my build thread. I started with a push button but i swapped in a dual range. If you want to get into the "off road" modifications then do it! It's relatively cheap and I'm getting my moneys worth out of this car. love it! 

[Great White Buffalo]

So, from all the provided info, let me see if I have this right...

 

- Transmission from a 85-98 ea82 (non turbo)

- 3.90 rear diff

- Rearrange interior pieces

- Slightly bigger AT tires

- Possible 2-3" lift

 

...and this Loyale could get it's off-road on properly. Also, how much will mpg drop with the swapped tranny and bigger tires? Any guesses?

 

Nick1208, do you have a link to the thread? Much appreciated.

 

- Buffalo

[AKghandi]

my mpg dropped a bit like 5mpg, but i have a gutless carbed wagon and i have to floor it to get up to speed. with the extra umph of SPFI you shouldnt notice too much change.

[nick1208]

So, from all the provided info, let me see if I have this right...

 

- Transmission from a 85-98 ea82 (non turbo)

- 3.90 rear diff

- Rearrange interior pieces

- Slightly bigger AT tires

- Possible 2-3" lift

 

...and this Loyale could get it's off-road on properly. Also, how much will mpg drop with the swapped tranny and bigger tires? Any guesses?

 

Nick1208, do you have a link to the thread? Much appreciated.

 

- Buffalo

Yup! Here you go ( http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/143010-nicks-94-loyale-build/ ) . Check your rear diff you might already have a 3.9...i did. Interior pieces aren't necessary, just nice to have, mine aren't even secured (only because i dont have all the pieces lol). The tires are nice. check out the 6 lug re-drill. You're going to want to consider this if you want to get into wheeling, unless you can find some 14 or 15" pugs. I did a 4" lift. It's my daily and I wish I would have gone bigger! 4" gives me enough off road versatility while keeping my car practical enough to drive every day.  The tranny won't make a difference in the MPG, it's the same exact tranny, just with a hi/lo option instead of the regular 4wd. I always complain about my MPG but it's probably because I'm driving my car for 1-3 hours a day. hope this helps. 

[Great White Buffalo]

All of it sounds good. I basically wanted to have my wagon sit slightly higher (2-4 inches), have slightly meaty tires, and a Hi-Lo Tranny. The GL 5spd covers the tranny and the tires/lift won't be hard. I'm not sure what the largest tire size I can get is before I start seeing a serious decrease in my MPG though. It rarely ever snows where I'm at in Washington, but it rains more often than not so the roads typically get wet. I'd definitely want tires that grip better than the ones on now.

[nick1208]

All of it sounds good. I basically wanted to have my wagon sit slightly higher (2-4 inches), have slightly meaty tires, and a Hi-Lo Tranny. The GL 5spd covers the tranny and the tires/lift won't be hard. I'm not sure what the largest tire size I can get is before I start seeing a serious decrease in my MPG though. It rarely ever snows where I'm at in Washington, but it rains more often than not so the roads typically get wet. I'd definitely want tires that grip better than the ones on now.

moral of the story is. you've got a great building block for a wheeler. just going to take time. 

[Great White Buffalo]

moral of the story is. you've got a great building block for a wheeler. just going to take time. 

 

Here's another question. I used to own a 1984 Dodge Ramcharger 4x4. It was almost like the mechanical love of my life. Manual transmission, auto locking hubs, Hi-Lo Range and then some...built like a tank, but ate like a pig so the mpg was less than half of my wagon's...to the point-what would be the advantage of having my wagon as a wheeler over an older heavier truck, mpg aside?

[AKghandi]

the weight and ground clearance. these cars get alot of ground clearance when they are lifted. about 15" at the diff with 30" tires. plus they dont weight as much so they dont sink, plus they have a very low center of gravity.

 

also they are pretty much smooth on the bottom so they drag themselves through stuff that SAS rigs get stuck.. i have made some pretty beefy trucks look bad

[nick1208]

Its a wagon! There's no better feeling than passing a lifted truck in a family wagon on a trail. Also our rear diffs sit pretty high. We have lots of clearance, but not as much flex

[El Presidente]

Here's another question. I used to own a 1984 Dodge Ramcharger 4x4. It was almost like the mechanical love of my life. Manual transmission, auto locking hubs, Hi-Lo Range and then some...built like a tank, but ate like a pig so the mpg was less than half of my wagon's...to the point-what would be the advantage of having my wagon as a wheeler over an older heavier truck, mpg aside

 

Subaru and your Dodge are two completely different animals and you can't really compare them. They both have ups and downs and they both wheel completely differently. Your not going to tow an offroad trailer with a subaru, but you could a dodge. Your also probably not going to take the dodge on a 150 mile trip, wheel for the weekend and drive home again, all on one tank of gas. Your not going to wheel your dodge at 800rpm, but you will in a subaru. Your also NOT going to have fun wheeling a Ram Charger at any of the ORV parks around here because they are just too fat and wide. The trails are really set up for a 60"ish wms, like a yota, jeep or a subaru. Something like a Ram charger would be fun in the mud where its open, but if you get it up to Walker, your gonna come out a little narrower.

 

EA82 SPFI +2" lift +215/75R15's(27's) = 25-27ish mpgs. A 2" lift is a good place to start because the commitment level is really low and easy to take off/put on. With 27's, you'll go pretty much everywhere a SAS rig with 33's can go. Sounds crazy, but its true.

 

If you upgrade the motor to an EA81 or an EJ, you'll see mileage #'s go up. EA81's are more gutless on the street because of cam profiling, but you'll see awesome mileage and WAY better low end torque. An EJ upgrade pretty much resolves any complaints about power or mpg's hands down. If you ever have a chance to drive one, you'll understand.

 

Buffalo, where are you located? NWWO is planning a day trip to walker valley on the 8th and it could be a good chance to see some rigs. Check out the offroad section for details.

 

 

Josh

[Great White Buffalo]

Subaru and your Dodge are two completely different animals and you can't really compare them. They both have ups and downs and they both wheel completely differently. Your not going to tow an offroad trailer with a subaru, but you could a dodge. Your also probably not going to take the dodge on a 150 mile trip, wheel for the weekend and drive home again, all on one tank of gas. Your not going to wheel your dodge at 800rpm, but you will in a subaru. Your also NOT going to have fun wheeling a Ram Charger at any of the ORV parks around here because they are just too fat and wide. The trails are really set up for a 60"ish wms, like a yota, jeep or a subaru. Something like a Ram charger would be fun in the mud where its open, but if you get it up to Walker, your gonna come out a little narrower.

 

EA82 SPFI +2" lift +215/75R15's(27's) = 25-27ish mpgs. A 2" lift is a good place to start because the commitment level is really low and easy to take off/put on. With 27's, you'll go pretty much everywhere a SAS rig with 33's can go. Sounds crazy, but its true.

 

If you upgrade the motor to an EA81 or an EJ, you'll see mileage #'s go up. EA81's are more gutless on the street because of cam profiling, but you'll see awesome mileage and WAY better low end torque. An EJ upgrade pretty much resolves any complaints about power or mpg's hands down. If you ever have a chance to drive one, you'll understand.

 

Buffalo, where are you located? NWWO is planning a day trip to walker valley on the 8th and it could be a good chance to see some rigs. Check out the offroad section for details.

 

 

Josh

 

Excuse my delay Josh,

 

I'm in Island County...Oak Harbor, WA to be exact. Why would an EA81 be a better alternative to an EA82? I can understand the EJ swap, that seems like a no brainer. My overall plan, assuming I'm keeping this rig, is to truly make it a rig: lift, tires as mentioned...plus lights on the front and top, maybe a winch in the future (if that happens, the front bumper is getting swapped out.

 

As for my old Ramcharger, I miss the leg room, head space, and sheer size. I doubt I'll make it to that meet considering my circumstances right now but I'll keep those in mind for the future. Thanks for the insight.

 

Anthony