Thinking about a "new" subaru input wanted

[wfournier]

Well my 97 OBS is getting to the point where I think it is starting to make sense to look for something new. My main concern at the moment is that the body is starting to go away (rusted through at the wheel wells). Other than that the car is solid but I think it is starting to get to the point where rust is going to be a continual issue. 

 

I've been looking around a little and am leaning towards a used forester or outback. I'd like something with the capability to pull a small trailer for moving bigger things and some firewood (say 1/2 to a 1/3 cord at a time). I'm seeing quite a few available, many with high miles. I'm looking for what will be my best bet, any particular models/years to look for or avoid? I'm not afraid of some work, I've head the engine out of the OBS and worked on most every other part of it so I feel pretty comfortable with a wrench. How do the automatic transmissions hold up (current car is a 5 speed, wife doesn't want to learn and it would be good if she could drive it if needed)? How many miles should I expect one of these to go? If it's got a 180,000 miles on it is it done or with tlc good for another 100k?

 

Sorry for the rambling, I guess bottom line, I'm looking for what tends to be issues with the newer models and what is going to give me the best bang for my buck.

[1 Lucky Texan]

in my opinion, put gen2 or gen3 H6 Outback at the top of your list.

[rverdoold]

Going to follow this thread: Looking for a newer subaru to replace my impreza wagon.

I was thinking of a 2007> 2.5 or 3.0 outback depending on the price and milage.

 

Does the 2.5 and/or 3.0 have a stainless steel exhaust system?

How is the valve adjustment done in both engine since I am planning a propane conversion (more wear on valve seats = more important to have valve adjusted properly).

Edited May 8, 2014 by rverdoold

[idosubaru]

Your best bet:

 

1.  find another late 90's EJ22 vehicle from a non-rusty part of the country - ideally down south where they aren't worth very much.  and go get it.  effort - yes, but it's totally worth it particularly if you're on a budget and like practical, economical, inexpensive vehicles. 

 

whatever vehicle you buy locally now is likely to have rust somewhere that will creep up in the future.

 

2.  EJ22's can still be found in up to 2001 Imprezas.  99 was last year for legacy.

 

3.  EJ25's have head gasket issues - so buyer beware.  Ideally you find one with the original headgasket that's never had an issue, then you know it's currently good and if it starts leaking externally they can be driven 10's of thousands of miles like that until they get worse, they very gradually get worse.

 

4.  avoid 1996-1999 EJ25's, worst engine Subaru ever made in terms of inexpensive longevity, due to the failure modes this issue is compounded over time.  not a good engine to buy used.

 

for the most part, Subaru trasmissions have few issues and aren't the main concern. 

 

Does the 2.5 and/or 3.0 have a stainless steel exhaust system?

How is the valve adjustment done in both engine since I am planning a propane conversion (more wear on valve seats = more important to have valve adjusted properly).

 

no stainless exhaust from the factory in the US.

 

EJ25 valve adjustment is super easy screw type.

The H6's are a complete debacle, nearly impossible like the older DOHC EJ25's, and noone adjusts the valves ever because of it.  properly maintained they don't really need it.  That being said the dealer has a special tool for doing it, i think it's like $600 tool here in the US.  lol

[wfournier]

Thanks for the info, how big a job is replacing the head gasket on a 2.5? If it's something I can do myself it might drive the price down if I can find one that isn't leaking bad. 

 

I've seen some people with over 300K on their H6's, is that to be expected with a well maintained car? 

 

Consumer reports overall gives the forester a better score than the outbacks, any idea what factors might be causing that? I'm not totally sure how much weight I give those ratings.

[upnorthguy]

If you like your body style I routinely see 96-99 Outbacks advertised around DC where the body is in great shape but have bent valves from a broken timing belt or a bad EJ25 that require head gaskets.  I've seen them as low as $300 and as high as $1500 for that type of car.  Down here you can also get something with a decent engine (e.g. an EJ25 that has had HG replacement) for $1800-$3000.

 

If you have had the engine out of your Outback you could do the HG on the EJ25.  Most here would say it is better to just find a used EJ22 and swap it into the Outback and ditch the EJ25 (yes, 30 HP lower, but no HG issues on the EJ22 and you can get one for just a few hundred bucks (www.car-part.com).

 

Like this '99 Outback ($900 with 158k) http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/4459444901.html

Or this '98 with bent valves ($1000/OBO with 89k) http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/cto/4455574493.html

 

This 2002 H6 has been posted for a month or two ($4,800 with 134k) http://annapolis.craigslist.org/cto/4398214149.html

Another 2002 with 206k for $4500 http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/cto/4443542246.html

[AdventureSubaru]

Yeah, Avoid the 90s version of the 2.5 unless you plan to do a swap (The EJ22 from your Impreza or others of that year can bolt right in if you buy one with a bad 2.5.

 

The 2000+ EJ25 were WAY better. Not as bulletproof as the EJ22 but still a great motor. (Ours is at 341k)

 

For heavier towing, you'd probably want the automatic transmission. They tend to be pretty tough on these vehicles. Ours lasted to 298k before replacement and we could have gotten more life out of it. No reason to shy away from automatics.

 

Subarus will last and last if you maintain them well. No reason to shy away from mileage if a car seems well maintained. It's the ones that are abused/raced, run low on oil, overheated, neglected that can die on you.

[idosubaru]

Thanks for the info, how big a job is replacing the head gasket on a 2.5? If it's something I can do myself it might drive the price down if I can find one that isn't leaking bad. 

 

I've seen some people with over 300K on their H6's, is that to be expected with a well maintained car? 

 

Consumer reports overall gives the forester a better score than the outbacks, any idea what factors might be causing that? I'm not totally sure how much weight I give those ratings.

 

 

Of course, you can find one with a blown motor and repair it.  It's an overwhelming job to some, not a big deal to others. Download the readily available FSM's and read through the process to see if it's something you're up too.

 

The 96-99's are problematic even after repair, so that's why i say avoid them. 

 

2000 and later EJ25's are less risky and a better find-and-repair option.

 

The H6's are excellent engines and can make high mileages without much effort or issue.

 

Consumer reports is a good starting point but not very fine tuned, I wouldn't trust it to be very accurate.  What do they mean - are they distinguishing between Forester Turbo engines and non-Turbo engines, Outback and non-Outbacks, 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder Outbacks, transmission changes?

 

Consumer reports is nowhere near robust enough to delineate all those differences.  Each of those platforms has different failure modes, statistics, and reliability traits. 

 

Often times a base forester and base legacy are THE SAME CAR.  same engine, same transmission, same drivetrain.  to say one is "better" is akin to sounding like a 4 year old talking about relativity. 

 

 

1998 Forester - exactly the same guts as a 1998 Outback.

1999 Forester - exactly the same guts as a 2000 Outback.

 

Consumer reports is a good starting point, after that they're weak and do not verify actual changes and robustness of a given platform.

[rverdoold]

OK, going to look for an outback 2.5, automatic from 2009 (last of the 4th gen) It has all options (euro) including vdc, BT, navigation etc. it has run 109k Km and is converted to propane. It does not have a tow hook, so it has not been used for towing yet, considering the mileage and the age it has mostly been used on the highway.

I will look at:

Service book (timing belt should have been done at 105K km).

Oils (engine and automatic and smell the auto oil)

check tires for equal wear (size ect)

do the torque bind test (full steering at low speed notice for ... jumping right?)

Check the cleanness of the engine bay

Thinking of reading the ECU with my laptop and freeSSM

 

Could you please give input what other important things I should look for?

[AdventureSubaru]

torque bind will feel like driving a truck in 4wd on pavement. if you've felt it before, you'll know it. it should make itself obvious.

 

Get the engine up to full temperature and check for bubbles in the coolant overflow. You can also look at the head gaskets from below for external leaks/weeping.

[1 Lucky Texan]

look for split CVJ boots - might give you some leverage for negotiation.