MR_Loyale Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 At the end of my project, both the transmission and the engine must go back into the vehicle. I am thinking about bolting them up while they are out of the car and installing them as a unit. The main advantages are no wiggle jiggle to align the input shaft and assured proper alignment of the trans with the engine. Has anyone ever done this before with a Loyale? Is there enough room to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I know I've seen posts on here before saying it's a real PITA. That's the extent of my knowledge on the subject, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyBrat Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 i swapped the engine and trans out of my 78 brat into a 79 wagon, and the engine and trans from the 79 wagon into my brat without ever taking them apart. now, i know it may not be relevant because of the year difference but it was much easier than separating them in my opinion. the 78 brat has a 4 inch lift, so that was a breeze, the wagon was slightly harder. i had to unbolt the trans crossmember from the "frame" to give enough clearance for the engine to come up past the radiator support, if that makes any sense. in my opinion, try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted June 2, 2014 Author Share Posted June 2, 2014 i swapped the engine and trans out of my 78 brat into a 79 wagon, and the engine and trans from the 79 wagon into my brat without ever taking them apart. now, i know it may not be relevant because of the year difference but it was much easier than separating them in my opinion. the 78 brat has a 4 inch lift, so that was a breeze, the wagon was slightly harder. i had to unbolt the trans crossmember from the "frame" to give enough clearance for the engine to come up past the radiator support, if that makes any sense. in my opinion, try it. Yes yes. That is exactly what I was thinking - unbolt the trans cross member and come in at a steep angle. "Fly" it all in. Damn that would make a great tutorial video wouldn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 On a loyale that is stock height it is almost impossible because of where the engine crossmember sits in relation to the firewall.At stock hight the back of the transmission will hit the ground before you get the engine and transmission to a steep enough angle to come out.Even if your lifted and the transmission can swing down the clutch linkage and pitch stopper mount on the firewall try to occupy the same space.With 2 people it might be do able,but along time ago when I tried that it wasn't possible with only me.So I lowered the engine/transmission back down until I could undo the bolts holding the transmission to the engine.After that both were out in 5 minutes. Installing the combo is worse by your self because its difficult to control the angle of the combo by yourself unless you have one of those fancy engine tilters that can tilt the engine to any angle you want. As much of a pain in the rump roast it sounds, it is much easier to put the engine and transmission in separatly,with the biggest pain being jacking/manhandling the transmission in place.But with enough lift and/or removing some parts from firewall or transmission it may be possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted June 2, 2014 Author Share Posted June 2, 2014 I have the car up on ramps is I don't think ground clearance would be an issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyBrat Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 (edited) Uberoo does have a point though, make sure you have somebody to help you. Edited June 2, 2014 by RustyBrat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spazomatic Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I think if the cars up on jackstands, and you have a load leveler (cheaper than dirt @ harbor freight) its totally doable, and a lot less brain damage than trying to stab the trans to the engine, already in the car. Thats my theory anyway... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 (edited) I would only do them togheter if it's got a lift kit spacing the crossmember from the body. Otherwise, It's PITA Just put the trans in first...then engine. If the car has a lift kit....it would be more feasible....but on a stocker the main crossmember is too close to the top of the tunnel......the drain bolt of the front diff will hang up on the crossmember, and the clutch fork will be stabbing the firewall. Oh and the trans will puke fluid out the tailshaft while it's tilted.....so you'll have a big puddle to work in hooking up shifter and driveline. Edited June 2, 2014 by Gloyale 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyBrat Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I would only do them togheter if it's got a lift kit spacing the crossmember from the body. Otherwise, It's PITA Just put the trans in first...then engine. If the car has a lift kit....it would be more feasible....but on a stocker the main crossmember is too close to the top of the tunnel......the drain bolt of the front diff will hang up on the crossmember, and the clutch fork will be stabbing the firewall. Oh and the trans will puke fluid out the tailshaft while it's tilted.....so you'll have a big puddle to work in hooking up shifter and driveline. this reminded me that i forgot to mention drain ALL FLUID from the trans first, then wrap a bag or something around the output on the trans. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferp420 Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 the engine and trans package is so small and light i personally think its easyer to do them together i did my swap like that on my 91 loyale i did it by myself in and out no problems ive done it both ways seems to take twice as long to do them seperately on a side note i also did my scout like that and never again the 6.5 td with 700r4 and tcase is quite a large package for one person to handle but i did it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3crows Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 (edited) You probably already did this but incase you haven't, here goes. I pull engine and trans. out as a unit with an engine hoist, cherry picker type. Put the guy up on jackstands, at least the front, so you'll have room to disconnect stuff from underneith. Take out radiator and fan if you have one on the water pump. I hook a chain to the front lifting eye and the bracket in the back where the clutch cable goes. It sort of tweeks it a bit but you can straighten it out. The main thing is to get the balance point when everything is disconnected. It's ok to have it heavier on the transmission end but not too much, Disconnect the motor mounts from the frame and leave them on the engine, Cut a 2x4 to support the trans. at the main cross member so that when you lower the cross member the trans will be able to clear it. Lower the main cross member as far as you can and take out the small cross member at the tail end of the trans. Make sure everything is disconnected and out of the way. DRAIN THE FREAKIN' TRANSMISSION BEFORE YOU PULL THE ENGINE! It will drain itself all over the floor if you don't (gee, how do I know that?). Start lifting the engine and pulling the hoist back until the trans. rests on the cross member. Take a piece of rope and secure it as far back as you can on the trans. and tie it to the hook on the hoist. keep lifting now and moving back til the engine clears the front of the car. It will be at quite an angle and you will have to lift the trans end to get it all to clear. I had to rotate the chain a couple links to get some weight off the trans,(PITA!). Roll it all back and put it on the floor with blocks and a dollie underneith. I replaced the engine and put in a new clutch kit. Even with their majic allignment tool it was a pain to put the transmission and engine togather because you still have to get the splines leigned up and the engine and trans leigned up. I've read forums where people have just pulled the trans. from underneith but I wouldn't. There's just not enough room and the trans. is too heavy for this old man to manhandle. It goes back about the same way. Attach the rope to the trans so that when you lift it, it's fairly level or such that you can lift it up enough to clear . Once you get it over th front you're going to have to let it come down at that steeper angle and work it over the cross member. Takes some wiggling and lifting from top and underneith and maybe some support under the tail of the trans. but once you get the motor mount bolts alligned, you got it. And as I always say, "If it was easy, they'd have women doing it" Edited June 16, 2014 by 3crows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 3crows - are you saying you did it on a loyale? never done it on a loyale - sounds like they are saying the crossmember is trickier on those? but on XT6 and EJ vehicles it's easy. i've done it by myself with just an engine lift multiple times. you of course need to be able to see the steep angle and ground clearance you'll need like uberoo said. the trans wants to drop way low to come out at that steep angle. i have an EZ30 H6 on the ground now with auto trans i just pulled together and wrote down the chain links i used, got it out first stab i believe. 17 chain links from pitch stopper to hook on the engine lift and 8 chain links to the engine block - which i forget where but i think it was around the power steering pump bolts in the front of the block. that might give you a rough starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3crows Posted June 16, 2014 Share Posted June 16, 2014 Done it twice on a DL and GL wagon. Dropping the main cross member allows the engine and trans.to come out and go back in at a steeper angle which is a good thing. The cross member only goes down so far because of the rack and pinion but once you've got the the engine nearly in you can lift the trans. up and push the cross member back in place. Forgot to mention, take off carb if so equipped and alternator before hooking up chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 i like separating the two because it allows me a chance to check TO bearing, and clutch. IMO messing w xmembers is a waste of time when I can be done under the car after 6 bolts. Ive also found traditional cherry pickers cumbersome in comparison to the straight up nature of the chain hoist i use for soobs. without power tools i can pull the whole thing out and swap a trans, and put it back in a few hours, without power tools. To each their own, but is it that hard to get all 4 bell housing bolts off? Harder than dropping xmembers? support (lift) the trans before installing the engine and youre good. go to one fender, pull up on engine, one side falls in mount hole. repeat on other side. its magic. BTW: USE A SPRAYPAINT LID IN THE TRANS TAILSHAFT AND TAPE IT IN BAM NO MORE LEAKS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 (edited) installed this H6 EZ30 and auto trans together last night, very easy. it's nice installing all the bellhousing bolts out of the vehicle, no effort jacking up/lining up trans above crossmember, and took no extra time sliding it in this way. Edited June 28, 2014 by grossgary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 installed this H6 EZ30 and auto trans together last night, very easy. it's nice installing all the bellhousing bolts out of the vehicle, no effort jacking up/lining up trans above crossmember, and took no extra time sliding it in this way. Glad that worked for you. Madness to me. my .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted June 28, 2014 Author Share Posted June 28, 2014 I will be doing them separate. The timing just worked out that way because of all the things i am doing. The transmission is in and I am just getting the engine together. Would like to do it together one day though so I can have tried it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyeights Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 At work I have rolled the engine - trans assembly to the location point. Next just lower the car front end down on the engine/trans/front/rear crossmembers and bolt it up. I'm a one man shop so I must constantly devise ways to do things without help. If you don't have a hoist, you can level and set the compete engine/trans assembly and use the engine hoist to lower the car down on to it. Have to see it I guess. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted June 29, 2014 Author Share Posted June 29, 2014 At work I have rolled the engine - trans assembly to the location point. Next just lower the car front end down on the engine/trans/front/rear crossmembers and bolt it up. I'm a one man shop so I must constantly devise ways to do things without help. If you don't have a hoist, you can level and set the compete engine/trans assembly and use the engine hoist to lower the car down on to it. Have to see it I guess. Good Luck If you ever do that again, set up a video camera. That would make a great video. That is how they build the cars at the factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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