antiinterference Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I did some searching but could not find a thread that helps me much. (besides full swap) I have a 98 Outback 5 speed manual VIN 6 (6th digit) Need to know what motor that is. (for phase and compatability) So belt broke, assuming valves got munched, left timing cover shreaded. I HATE interference motors hateem hatem hatem. Is it a sure deal the valves are toast? Dented pistons? (was in gear and driving) Are the heads from a 93 ej22 compatible? (doubt it) from what I read here I need a 95 ej22 from an automatic to swap directly. Can a 92 ej22 be put in there fairly easy? Anyone in Oregon wanna sell a motor that is drop in and NOT INTERFERENCE, with resolved head gasket issues? (SOHC) Anyone got the phone number for any engineer that thinks interference motors are great? I have some words for that dumbass.... Thanks for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 1. might be lucky and re-hang a belt. I had one with a skipped belt, and it survived. 2. The engine is an ej25d. The MT should not have an EGR if i am not mistaken. 3. You can swap on ej22e heads with single cam and belt, just carry everything over. use a 2.2 manifold Use 2.5 head gasket. This makes a high compression 'frankenmotor'. Run premium fuel. *SHOULD* be non-interference to swap head depending on the ej25d piston crown 4. An ej22e would drop in, plug and play with or without EGR As far as interference motors go, belt maintenance is key. The belt is more likely to fail from a seized idler bearing or water pump or the bearings failing allowing the pulleys to walk, before the belt itself would fail. There are more details to these combinations, but in general, yes, you can hybrid parts, and yes, you can swap in a 2.2 non interference. Stay within phase 1 engines for compatibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiinterference Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Thank you much! I already have the spare heads for my 92 Leggy and I mean leggy 322K woohoo! runs like a top. So, I think I can try the new belt. (was a low speed break crossing fingers). Think it did slip the tensioner (which prob seized), under broken left cover the belt is sitting on the block, it deflects but does not push like it's broke. IF I can detect any valve damage (gonna try to check without pulling heads)(and pray the pistons r ok) I will pull the heads and put on the SOHCs. (and pray the pistons r ok) Barf. Ej25D as in dead:) Also gonna look for a ej22e to drop in it. I MUST have a non-interference motor. Bet my 92 has close to 100k on timing belt (gulp). Soon, soon. I'd seriously rather put in a EA82 than keep this interference POS! 3. You can swap on ej22e heads with single cam and belt, just carry everything over. use a 2.2 manifold Use 2.5 head gasket. This makes a high compression 'frankenmotor'. Run premium fuel. *SHOULD* be non-interference to swap head depending on the ej25d piston crown Premium gas just makes the timing more precise correct? So as to prevent detonation? Wonder if you can modify crank angle sensor to change the timing to make it run ok on regular gas, which actually has more power just a more erratic ignition rate. Thanks again! OMG milesfox I love your pic! I used to rock the 83 and 84:) Done that same thing!! Edited August 29, 2014 by antiinterference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Considering the high compression, the premium fuel resists predetonation. Otherwise, there is the risk of damage to the pistons. It will run on stock tune. The knock sensor can retard the timing to safe limits, but it will make the engine run doggy. You can try different combos of HG thickness. There are recommended gaskets for retrofit. An oem gasket will need a hole made for a water passage. There are aftermarket Cometic gaskets for the application. Not that regular fuel has more power density than premium fuel, it just lights off easier. With premium fuel and the frankemnmotor, what you are taking advantage of is the higher compression (fuel and air density) for a more explosive output (power) taking advantage of the whole timing curve with the knock sensor to keep detonation in check. If you are cheap like me, you use the 2 dollar octane boost to a tank of regular gas. There is more expertise to this (search) and others will chime in. I have built a frankemotor with cometic gaskets, but it failed a year later on regular gas and pinging blowing out a ring land. Maybe the HG was failing. I would have to take the pistons out to confirm. Also my motor was unknown miles and condition with rusty cylinder walls when built, and survived up until its last oil change adding a PTFE product, could be a variable. frankenmotor built frankenmotor failed, after having been swapped into forester Edited August 29, 2014 by MilesFox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiinterference Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Sweet, I see there is a yard nearby offering an ej22 for $1500 100K miles.... What is a good price for a block? since I already have the heads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) you should get a running ej22e for 300 bucks. For 1500 bucks you can get a whole driveable donor car. Edited August 29, 2014 by MilesFox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiinterference Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Thanks Fox! 300 would be niiiice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiinterference Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) LMFAO Teebagged the motor!!! OMG Fox did NOT ME:) lol Edited August 29, 2014 by antiinterference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 Thanks Fox! 300 would be niiiice... Good luck. You will find you will have several options as Subaru is like a big box of Legos to put together however you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 All ej25d's here in the US have egr, that is why the automatic transmission ej22e is the replacement of choice. Also different areas will have drastically different prices for engines. Around here you will find ej22s for as little as 50 bucks (I have one of those in my forester) to as much as 800. Best thing to do is shop around, I've bought running, but rough body legacys for as little $300 before with torque binding transmissions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiinterference Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Yeah I've been searching and found 2 automatic ej22s (whole car) for under a grand. High mileage though. 250-300K One guy in my town has a ej22 turbo! lol Wants 700 for the motor only has no info on it. Pass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiinterference Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Can anyone verify that SOHC EJ22 heads would create a non-interference EJ25 Frankenmotor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthguy Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 www.car-part.com searched for a Bend zip code "area" (distance outward from that zip ranges from 88 up to 380 miles) shows a bunch of '95 EJ22 engines between $450-900. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiinterference Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 So just took a look as I just got it home today, the reason the timing belt cover is busted is because the left bottom camshaft sprocket went to pieces. So I'm guessing the valves are toast. sigh... Gonna have to do a Frankenmotor or buy an EJ22 from an automatic. Thanks for your help guys. Please feel free to post your fav Frankenmotor build threads. Fox's video is cool but I like the technical stuff:) Like what can be done to avoid buying super gas for the rest of the cars life. Prob going to eventually swap motors though, from what I've read the head swap has a limited success rate, whether from mechanical talent or parts is hard to tell. Posting to myself now:) Gonna sleep on it. Thanks again all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiinterference Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Mostly in Eugene I bet, across the pass. Will look into it more tommorrow. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthguy Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 So just took a look as I just got it home today, the reason the timing belt cover is busted is because the left bottom camshaft sprocket went to pieces. So I'm guessing the valves are toast. sigh... Like MilesFox said...it is worth checking out to see if you got lucky and don't have any bent valves. Track down a new cam sprocket (salvage yard) and get a new timing belt and hook it up and see what happens. I would try that before diving into the Frankenmotor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/142723-art-of-subaru-maintenance-vol-2-ej-series-video/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 .it is worth checking out to see if you got lucky and don't have any bent valves. Track down a new cam sprocket it has been my experience that the sprocket fails because something else happened. the toothed idler maybe. this just means that there may be more than one busted part to replace to do a test. personally, i'd probably insrtall used parts and belt, do a compression test , and buy good used head if needed. it's cheaper than a replacement engine, and the same work as a replacement block. but more work since you have to install the timing belt twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antiinterference Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Thanks for the videos MilesFox! And John, good advice. I will be tearing into it tomorrow, just taking off timing cover for now to see whats what. I tend to agree that there is probably more going bad than just the sprocket. As my user name suggests though I HATE INTERFERENCE ENGINES! I would rather give up any amount of power than keep it in there as is. EA82? So I may try to piece it back together until I can find a suitable Ej22E to replace it, but it is CERTAINLY not going to stay there. Again, can anyone confirm that swapping to EJ22 heads will eliminate the interference condition? I doubt it but it is worth the question. Maybe the valves don't extend as far as the stock heads? Get the thick HG? Ivansimports would probably have alot of experience with that one. Thanks for all the help guys, I will post some pics of the carnage this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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