Experienced mechanics, help me with timing belt change

[Ibreakstuff]

Learned my lesson with the hollow Subaru cam bolts, I just drill them now. Its cheap, quick, easy, and fool proof.

 

I broke a 3 foot breaker bar, 2 cam sprockets, a strap wrench, and 3 hex bits... on my ej255/d25 wrx motor.

[Moto7man]

I just changed my timing belt and water pump about 8 months ago. no problem at all. Here is the step by step video that gives the procedure. Very helpful. The only difference is the sooby in the video is a sohc.

 

 

 

[1997reduxe]

just my two cents, but only because i'm gathering all the parts

for my own change, though i get my mechanic here in houston to do it,

i much prefer the continental (contitech) tb kits.

the conti i believe is the best belt for a lot of reasons, but

that kit also comes with the oem (i forget the name, aisian

or some other) the original manufacturer pulleys and water pump,

i believe, where from what i remember some of the seals etc

you get in the cheaper ebay kits are lesser quality.

but, i just got the conti tb kit, the one without seals, as i prefer to get my seals

directly from subaru (that's a whole other argument, but i got this mentality

from reading this forum a long long time

if you want to find the one i got, search ebay for TB277LK2,

i got it for 132 bucks. that is a steal.

also, the alternative one with seals is there, i think it is

part number L2 PP277LK2 to search.

ask me if you'd like to know about my mechanic.

since you're in texas.

[1 Lucky Texan]

can the belts be slid off/on under the craanl sprocket guard plate w'ever the thing is called in manual trans cars? Can I take it off and just 'eyeball' putting it back on? or use some toothpicks or a coupla feeler gauges when i cinch it down?

 

they want -what-1mm of clearance right? could I use some pieces of 18ga. wire to space it up in 2-3 spots?

[idosubaru]

just leave it in place, no need to remove it.

 

if you do remove it, just eye ball it - no big deal.  yes you can use a spacer to get the appropriate clearance or an appropriate feeler guage.  it seems vague since it's a movable part, but don't let that scare you, it's really simple.

[1 Lucky Texan]

thanx - I was hoping there wasn't a lip on the front and the new belt could slide under it.

[ivans imports]

conti belt junk to hard of rubber oem or gates

[1 Lucky Texan]

conti belt junk to hard of rubber oem or gates

I got Mitsuboshi belt, some say it is OEM.

 

Hoping GMB idlers are OK.

[heartless]

the GMB idlers will be fine - have used them on several cars with no issues thus far

[1 Lucky Texan]

need to swing by and get some threadlocker for the weekend TB change. I think I have everything else ready to go.

[ThosL]

If it's not broken why fix/replace?  Several weeks ago when I had my water pump replaced we checked the timing belt that had no cracks or signs of abnormal wear and did not replace it.  And it had not been changed in at least 100K miles!  

[1 Lucky Texan]

If it's not broken why fix/replace?  Several weeks ago when I had my water pump replaced we checked the timing belt that had no cracks or signs of abnormal wear and did not replace it.  And it had not been changed in at least 100K miles!

It's a fair point and I DO wonder sometimes if it's a waste of time and money to use the time side of my schedule for strictly mechanical stuff. Certainly, an air filter is unlikely to go bad over time. Same might be true for a sparkplug.

 

but, I guess it's an "abundance of caution" plus, I recognize that lubricants can deteriorate with time. Others have reported that often a pulley or 2 are in much worse shape than the belt itself. I would have the opportunity, I suppose, of removing the belt and spinning the pulleys/test pulleys for 'wobble' w'ever. But, half to work of replacing most of the spinning parts would be done by the time I pulled the existing belt off so....

 

Just not in a position to deal with a broken motor IF the worst should happen.

[mikec03]

Here is what I would do given the low mileage.

Don't change the water pump

Don't change the seals

Don't take off the oil pump 

 

Doing any of the above will double the time, at least, that it takes to change the timing belt.  If later, one of the seal seals start to leak, it's not the end of the world.  You will easily be able to see the leak and identify it since it will be in the front [unlike many other leaks on subaru engines].  If one of the seals starts to leak, you will at least know how to replace it, at low cost, with just your labor.  Even though I have changed a couple of water pumps, I don't thing that they fail very often and probably never below 150K.

 

I think that changing the belt, all the idlers, and tensioner is a good idea.  No one can say if these items are entirely mileage or time dependent.  You have an interference engine.  Just do it and forget about it for 10 years, given your low yearly mileage. 

 

PS.  I did take out the radiator the last time.  I don't know if it's faster.  You have to take out either the fans separately or the radiator and fans together.  Either way it's a problem.  With the fans, the some of the bolts may/will brake off.  If you decide to take our the radiator [and fans together], you will find that the four hoses and clamps can be a problem and may/will need to be replaced.  I guess if you decide to not replace the water pump, then just take out the fans and leave the radiator in place so you don't have to fool with the cooling system, hoses, etc.

 

Also, I did go to Harbor Freight and buy their $10 torque wrenches, one for low and one for high torque.  I do use them but I go a little farther then the "click" just to be safe. 
 

[1 Lucky Texan]

Here is what I would do given the low mileage.

 

Don't change the water pump

Don't change the seals

Don't take off the oil pump 

 

Doing any of the above will double the time, at least, that it takes to change the timing belt.  If later, one of the seal seals start to leak, it's not the end of the world.  You will easily be able to see the leak and identify it since it will be in the front [unlike many other leaks on subaru engines].  If one of the seals starts to leak, you will at least know how to replace it, at low cost, with just your labor.  Even though I have changed a couple of water pumps, I don't thing that they fail very often and probably never below 150K.

 

I think that changing the belt, all the idlers, and tensioner is a good idea.  No one can say if these items are entirely mileage or time dependent.  You have an interference engine.  Just do it and forget about it for 10 years, given your low yearly mileage. 

 

PS.  I did take out the radiator the last time.  I don't know if it's faster.  You have to take out either the fans separately or the radiator and fans together.  Either way it's a problem.  With the fans, the some of the bolts may/will brake off.  If you decide to take our the radiator [and fans together], you will find that the four hoses and clamps can be a problem and may/will need to be replaced.  I guess if you decide to not replace the water pump, then just take out the fans and leave the radiator in place so you don't have to fool with the cooling system, hoses, etc.

 

Also, I did go to Harbor Freight and buy their $10 torque wrenches, one for low and one for high torque.  I do use them but I go a little farther then the "click" just to be safe.

ah, thanx - I just have one T wrench. hope it will be enough but, I'm prepared to go get a tool or other supplies if I need it - still a lot cheaper than having someone else do the job.

 

 

maybe I'll spray the fan bolts with some PB blaster.

 

still kinda wondering about that crank bolt, oil? dry? threadlocker? FSM wants oil so, I may use just a little anti-seize. Hoping 5th gear and my wife's feet on the brake will let me bust it off (and put it back) - but I'm prepared to use the starter-bump trick if I must!

 

I might pull my starter and see if I can re-grease to front-end of it. It's a planetary type and, last winter, it was dragging on cool mornings. It did it again just the other day when we had a cool-ish morning.

 

I have work planned for the wife's Outback this same weekend so, I kinda need to pace myself and have some PLAN B options on when to quit and move on. lol!

[Dj7291993]

Well, it looks like you are pretty well covered.  Just one more piece of information, the place Subaru has you set the crank for timing belts puts all the pistons halfway through their stroke.  Meaning, you can spin the cams all day long and not hurt a thing.  Not that I recommend it, but it's a nice bit of reassurance.  Just don't go spinning the crank.    Also, I can't remember which one, but iirc, if you leave one of the idlers off until you get the belt routed, it will go on a lot easier.  Otherwise, it can be a bit tight.

[86BRATMAN]

The water and oil pump takes literally an extra half an hour at the most. I could see leaving the water pump til next timing belt as I usually only do them on every other change. But there is absolutely no reason not to pull off the oil pump to check the screws and do new seals. If the screws are loose it's just a matter of time before the motor loses oil pressure and eats bearings.

[1 Lucky Texan]

well, I'm about 2/3 - 3/4 finished with my 07 WRX wagon's TB and quitting for today. Putting the belt on got to the last cam, L-U and it snapped. BUt , I don't know what's under that cover on the front. I need some way to get a tool on it to rotate it back in line.

 

 

I guess the AVCS stuff is in there but, I don't want to take the screws off if oil, springs or ball bearings are gonna fall out. And, is there a seal or gasket involved, etc.

 

 

this video has helped me, though I didn't pull the rad or move the PS reservooir or the filter box;

Edited October 24, 2014 by 1 Lucky Texan

[1 Lucky Texan]

OK, I think I have a coupla plans to try in the morning. First, I'm gonna use my old T belt and some pliers/vicegrips to try to turn it.

If that fails, looks like there is just a dust cover on the front and a big hex or TORX cam bolt I can get onto under it.

the belt covers on the the other 3 cams are fiddly - but I guess helpful. 5mm hex key.

I needed an inspection mirror so, that was one interruption today. And I guess I never figured on needing coolant so, I'll pick some up. I cut a plastic jug up to make a spacer for all the belt covers. Folded over (2 layers) it looked like about a mm in thickness.

The toothed idler will spin for 9-10 seconds when you flick it. It and one other idler seem to rock an extremely small amount. The tensioner looks oily on the top - not 'pooled' but seems to have seeped-out some I guess? Rag is reddish when I wipe it over that rubber seal. The upper smooth idler is a Koyo - looks like dual bearing compared to the GMB I bought - I bet it would last much longer. The other parts seem to be NSK and NTN ?

Using 5th gear, parking brake and chocked wheel, I was able to break the crank pulley loose with a 7/8" 6 point socket, 1/2" breaker bar with about 2' cheater bar. So, that at least went better than expected.

Edited October 27, 2014 by 1 Lucky Texan

[1 Lucky Texan]

Learned my lesson with the hollow Subaru cam bolts, I just drill them now. Its cheap, quick, easy, and fool proof.

 

I broke a 3 foot breaker bar, 2 cam sprockets, a strap wrench, and 3 hex bits... on my ej255/d25 wrx motor.

I saw this video when I was searching around ;

[spazomatic]

I did the belt, idlers, and water pump in my baja a couple weekends ago. The belt looked totally fine! Not a flaw on it. But two of the idlers were ready to be changed. They felt a bit rough, had a little bit of wobble, and spun very easily.

For the crank bolt, i was expecting trouble (after reading some of the stuff on here). But no, it was fine. Used a 2 foot long, 1/2" drive ratchet with a 7/8 socket, and a crowbar held against (2) 1/2" bolts through the damper/pulley...piece o' cake.

Thought id just throw that out there.

[Ibreakstuff]

I saw this video when I was searching around ;

 

Yea the guys at outfront motorsports do good work, they have a cool 1/2" head stud torture test video too. I'm considering their closed deck mod for my next ej255/257 block.

 

Drilling the hollow cam bolts is extremely easy if you have the nerve, just deep enough to release the tension behind the head of the bolt.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Ibreakstuff

[1 Lucky Texan]

section of old TB and vicegrips did the trick. Probably a strap wrench would have as well.

 

The L side seems half tooth off. Any change I could have made would make the set 1/2 tooth off the 'other way'. They seem 'tight' 1/2 tooth, but , as a SET, the cams are dead-on. In my mind, this seems better than if the ethey were 1/2 tooth too loose. This way, any weakness in the tensioner or slight belt stretching should let them 'wear' closer to the rear cover marks. Tooth count ( 54.5 on R side, 51 on L side) and belt markings were dead-on, even after rotating before and after pulling the tensioner pin. Actual torquing if the crank pulley went fine in 5th gear w/P brake on - but, when I reached for the pulley, I mistakenly installed THIS;

 

Perrin - resized by alckytxn, on Flickr

Edited October 25, 2014 by 1 Lucky Texan

[1 Lucky Texan]

OK, it started and seemed to idle normally, no smoke, no unusual noises, no CEL. I only ran it briefly though as it needs coolant.

 

Thanx so much for your guidance and support folks! Feels good to have ithe job behind me I admit, and I was certainly slow as molasses, but, I saved hundreds of dollars.

 

oops - I gotta remember to plug in the fans!

Edited October 25, 2014 by 1 Lucky Texan

[heartless]

Well done, Texan!

 

and that Perrin pulley - yeah, "mistakenly" my backside! LOL

[1 Lucky Texan]

remember this thread; http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/136669-plug-swap-failed-to-fix-miss-on-my-wrx-looking-for-ideas/page-4?do=findComment&comment=1255785

 

i THINK the chk sound is gone. Kinda wondering if a weak TB tensioner could have been the source of the sound this whole time. Or that toothed idler. I spins for a long time and is a little noisy/crunchy sounding.

Edited October 27, 2014 by 1 Lucky Texan