Driving with torquebind in the snow, anybody done it?

[KRB64]

What's it like?

 

I've not fixed mine yet and am considering using it for snow duty. But the way I understand torquebind, I'm thinking it would be like driving a 4X4 with lockers? Not a lot of directional control and slipping downhill on a sidehill? Or is it more like full time 4X4 and actually do better in the snow?

 

But these are just surmises. Anybody done it and can report the behavior?

 

Thanks,

[SnatchedHatch]

I'm still trying to understand the effect of torque bind as well, would like to hear about this

[CNY_Dave]

I had to temporarily drive mine (auto) with a manual switch for the AWD- all or nothing.

 

Going downhill the rear would slide before the front because the braking from the front would be transmitted through to the rear wheels.

I would fishtail down hills that with the AWD functioning normally were no sweat.

 

Took a pretty steep hill to notice.

 

Sidehill under power would not tend to slide the rear more, or if so by much, I think.

[johnceggleston]

 

But the way I understand torquebind, I'm thinking it would be like driving a 4X4 with lockers?

absolutely correct.

it is the perfect 4WD subaru in the snow.

 

but only in the snow.

[SnatchedHatch]

absolutely correct.

it is the perfect 4WD subaru in the snow.

 

but only in the snow.

Thank you, now I understand why one way to test for torque bind is to hit a parking lot and test maneuverability.

[idosubaru]

I drive like that all the time, every snowy day of the year just about.  A failed VLSD that has torque bind would be great in the snow. 

 

Won't the issue be that you can't always drive it in the snow?  It snows in the morning then they clear the roads during the day so you gotta drive back home on dry pavement.

 

XT6 and other PT4WD and FT4WD manual transmissions of the 70's, 80's, and early 90's actually drive like this be design.  When in 4WD or when the Center Diff Lock button (FT4WD) is pushed - they are locked and have "torque bind".

 

They drive great in the snow - XT6 is my preferred snow vehicle

[KRB64]

I've been driving it occasionally as is anyway. Just trying to decide whether to try and sell or wait and use it this winter.

 

Thanks for the input,

[mikec03]

I drove a 95 with torque bind for a couple of years.  No problem.  Normally, I drove with the fuse in.  When it snowed, I took the fuse out, and the car was in four wheel drive.  There is very little problem driving like this as long as the streets are at least wet.  But of course, on an expressway or with completely dry streets, you are putting stress on transmission so you should drive with the fuse out under these conditions.  There is little or no need for four wheel drive on an expressway, anyway, where I live in Wisconsin, since usually the lanes are cleared of snow so quickly.  

 

I think that the occasional 90's subaru which has a defective rear differential or the "hub" in the transmission sheared off has been driven with the fuse out ALL the time so the stress on the drive train eventually takes it's toll.

[idosubaru]

I drove a 95 with torque bind for a couple of years.  No problem.  Normally, I drove with the fuse in.  When it snowed, I took the fuse out, and the car was in four wheel drive.  There is very little problem driving like this as long as the streets are at least wet.  But of course, on an expressway or with completely dry streets, you are putting stress on transmission so you should drive with the fuse out under these conditions.  There is little or no need for four wheel drive on an expressway, anyway, where I live in Wisconsin, since usually the lanes are cleared of snow so quickly.  

 

I think that the occasional 90's subaru which has a defective rear differential or the "hub" in the transmission sheared off has been driven with the fuse out ALL the time so the stress on the drive train eventually takes it's toll.

 

that is only applicable to automatic transmissions - the manual trans don't have FWD fuses so if the VLSD center diff fails there is no work around for it aside from converting the car to FWD or RWD.

 

which brings up the point that i'm assuming the OP has a manual transmission but they never said.

[Gloyale]

My manual trans AWD locked up last winter right as the snow came.

 

I didn't bother fixing it for 2~3 weeks till some melting...It worked great in the snow.  Just like regular 4wd (with open diffs at each axle)

 

When I took it apaort to fix...it was actually one of the spiders in the Center diff had seized to the thrust washer that it rides against.  VLSD was fine

[SnatchedHatch]

I drive like that all the time, every snowy day of the year just about.  A failed VLSD that has torque bind would be great in the snow. 

 

Won't the issue be that you can't always drive it in the snow?  It snows in the morning then they clear the roads during the day so you gotta drive back home on dry pavement.

 

XT6 and other PT4WD and FT4WD manual transmissions of the 70's, 80's, and early 90's actually drive like this be design.  When in 4WD or when the Center Diff Lock button (FT4WD) is pushed - they are locked and have "torque bind".

 

They drive great in the snow - XT6 is my preferred snow vehicle

 

We're straying off topic of OP's question, but I agree, the basic 80's powertrain was a FWD/locked 4WD high (transfer case) which was AMAZING in winter. The higher end model's had the open diff with a locking diff function as you mentioned.

 

After reading this, I realized how my 98' just can't touch my 87' when it came to ehh Ken Block-esque commutes

 

Closer to topic, if my full-time automatic has slightly jerky shifts (unless you granny it), will that realistically risk kicking out the rear?

...especially on the highway on a bend?

Just a little worried, already missing the effectiveness of the manual I had

[idosubaru]

tire age and quality will mean more than anything else.   flatland like IN is so easy to drive in the snow in - but also because of that people pay little attention to tires.  poor snow performing tires can leave you sliding right down a snow covered steep mountain with no ability to stop.  once a few thousand pounds starts sliding down a frozen/snow packed, steep incline, you're done until you hit something.

 

you'll be fine.

 

i doubt you're downshifting on a snow covered highway bend?  

[KRB64]

Thanks for the many thoughts and anecdotes.

 

The sig says its an automatic.

 

The FWD fuse thing failed a while back. I'm full time now all the time. My commute to work is about 12 miles, not a big stressor. Tires are brand new Michelins (Harmoney?).

 

I slid off a farm road last winter in the snow but that was with worn out tires and it was a side slope up a hill in about 10" of wet snow.

[SnatchedHatch]

I agree with Gross, as you have new tires (winter tires right? How can you not have a set if you bought a Subie!? )

you should do fine.

Don't over gas it at any peak points on the road, crests, downhill, side slopes etc... you probably know this but since we're already breaking this down:

 

I just recalled, the only time my locked-4WD '87 Hatch slid.... was when I got the bright idea that it technically would going round a slight downhill highway bend.

Yeah.. a brief (EDIT: terrifying) adrenaline rush later, I decided I'd save that for the parking lots

Edited October 8, 2014 by SnatchedHatch

[KRB64]

I guess we'll find out unless I sell it in the mean time.

 

I'll go easy with the gas as usual.

 

I usually don't down shift while going down a hill, but I do have a big hill before home that I downshift at the top of. It's fun to go up as the bottom has a 90* curve so you have to slow to about 10mph before hitting a long steep grade with a nice bend in the middle. The 90* also makes coming down fun too!

 

I generally don't freak out in the snow. At home I have a 1951 Power Wagon with 10K PTO winch & 9.00x16 Power Kings (chains available) which is back up to a 1976 full time 4x4 M880 (Dodge W200) with 7.50x16 Grip Spurs, in waiting is a 1992 W250 Cummins with a bunch of weight in the bed should one fail me. What scares me is the other drivers, especially those with 4WD SUVs and the newer the vehicle or younger the driver the scarier they are.

[SnatchedHatch]

I guess we'll find out unless I sell it in the mean time.

 

I'll go easy with the gas as usual.

 

I usually don't down shift while going down a hill, but I do have a big hill before home that I downshift at the top of. It's fun to go up as the bottom has a 90* curve so you have to slow to about 10mph before hitting a long steep grade with a nice bend in the middle. The 90* also makes coming down fun too!

 

I generally don't freak out in the snow. At home I have a 1951 Power Wagon with 10K PTO winch & 9.00x16 Power Kings (chains available) which is back up to a 1976 full time 4x4 M880 (Dodge W200) with 7.50x16 Grip Spurs, in waiting is a 1992 W250 Cummins with a bunch of weight in the bed should one fail me. What scares me is the other drivers, especially those with 4WD SUVs and the newer the vehicle or younger the driver the scarier they are.

 

Amen, I was almost run off the road by a some douchebag in his brand new Escalade, flooring it up a viaduct at the dead start of a downpour.

Yeahhh those Michelin's can overcome several forces of physics, I'm sure! The dark matter makes up for the price tag.

Edited October 12, 2014 by SnatchedHatch

[xdeadeye1]

I had torquebind with my 96 legacy wagon.   it would shudder on turning and starting out....  

 

ALLL I did was change my tranny fluid and filter,,, and it went away immediately.

[KRB64]

Did the 3X flush thing with no luck but thanks, Bought the car hoping it was the cheap easy fix but not my luck...

[MilesFox]

in my experience i would drive ea82's in 4wd on wet pavement at highway speeds on the interstate.

 

I would give you a pass and say that you can drive a 4wd permanent car in winter given 

a. snow, ice, or wet roads

b. Squishy winter tires

c. breaking traction releases bind

 

I would say you would have the worst time with parking lot maneuvers. suppose make wide radius turns to not cram up the 4wd

Edited October 11, 2014 by MilesFox

[KRB64]

Man this thing is like a tank!

 

We got about 12" of snow last Sunday, then wind, then -15*F. This car has started everyday and went everywhere. After the winds I had drifts up to my knees in our rutted drive and the gravel lane to the barn and it busted right through them. I drove this thing out to feed and check the cattle, my 1992 Dodge diesel 4X4 and 1976 Dodge full time 4X4 farm truck never had to leave the barn.

 

Now we're getting 3-7 more inches of snow/sleet/freezing rain, we'll see what happens...

[SnatchedHatch]

Man this thing is like a tank!

 

We got about 12" of snow last Sunday, then wind, then -15*F. This car has started everyday and went everywhere. After the winds I had drifts up to my knees in our rutted drive and the gravel lane to the barn and it busted right through them. I drove this thing out to feed and check the cattle, my 1992 Dodge diesel 4X4 and 1976 Dodge full time 4X4 farm truck never had to leave the barn.

 

Now we're getting 3-7 more inches of snow/sleet/freezing rain, we'll see what happens...

What's your set-up for winter like (Subie)?

[KRB64]

Just a stocky Legacy sedan with 290,XXX miles, new Michelin tires and torque bind.

 

We got another 15" last night but not had it out in it yet, no purpose really since the river is over the road now I can't go anywhere anyway...

['nucksfan]

new here, I heard Subaru implemented a fix for this problem after '97? I have a 2001 forester w/ a 4EAT, just wondering if this still occurs in my model year.

[idosubaru]

new here, I heard Subaru implemented a fix for this problem after '97?.

 

untrue.  where did you hear that?

unless by "fix" it means the VTD planetary style transfer set up in 01+ H6 transmissions and later H4's?  that wasn't an "implemented fix" so much as a completely different mechanical set up.

 

have a 2001 forester w/ a 4EAT, just wondering if this still occurs in

my model year.

 

yes - changing the ATF and proper tire maintenance/rotation as well as avoiding improper towing will stave off most torque bind. 

quit looking for problems!  you're fine.  or visit WEBMD instead!    

 

it is a possibility but so are headgaskets, lower toothed timing pulleys, the other two timing pulleys, timing tensioner, loose oil pump backing plate screws (i can nearly promise 1 or more are loose), alternator failure leaving you stranded, burnt valves (have the valves ever been checked or adjusted), cam seals, crank seal...all of those are much more likely.   if you're looking for long term reliability and practical use of your forester - look to those things in the list i just made - not TB.