KiwiGL Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Over on AUSUBARU.com we were discussing the JDM RX 2nd-gen Leones and we got onto the topic of Possum Bourne's old rally car(s). http://www.ausubaru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25420 Anyway, I found these pics of the engine used in his 1983 Subaru, and was wondering if it's a dual or quad-carb setup? I remember reading in his autobiography that he used a quad-carb setup on his early EA81S RXs, the same engine used by the Safari factory team. It looks like there could be four carbs, or at least a separate barrel for each cylinder. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom0 Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) Buying a nice classic rally/road car haha? Wouldn't it be nice. Says in the auction that its twin webber, which I would say is true by the looks of it. (single acc.pump on carb) Think they are IDF Webbers. Really not sure on that bit though. Never heard of quad carb setup, would be insane, not sure how much gain there would be though. Edit: for photo, looks the same to me IDF webber, Edited October 6, 2014 by Tom0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiGL Posted October 6, 2014 Author Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) Yeah the name IDF Weber seems familiar. I'm pretty sure that was what Possum was using. They do look a bit like two carbs in one. I'm no expert on carbs though. Comparing pictures, the carbs on the car look like the IDF pic you posted. Glad I got that sorted, it's been bugging me for a while now. *edit - just realised the listing for the car is still up! http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=693950113 Text: Extremely Rare.1983 Group A Subaru RX Coupe.Twin Webber Carbs, 4 Port head Model.Close Ratio Gear Box.LSD.Adjustable factory suspension.Extensive History, 1986 & 87 International rallies.Lots of hillclimb class records.All the running gear from original rally car now a road going RX coupe which has not been used in Motor Sport.Sister car to Possum's Original Subaru Rally car. Edited October 6, 2014 by KiwiGL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 More Background info @ AUSubaru: ~► http://www.ausubaru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6077 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 About the Twin Downdraft Weber Carbs EA81S engine, let me Share an old post here, taken from the Legendary "Strange & Weird Subaru Stuff" Thread: (Post Nº 1,598) The biggest difference with the Dual carby heads is the reversal of the inlet and outlet valves (on the true Dual carb heads) ... Factory Twin Carb Subaru EA Engines were available since the EA62 (1300) engine which came on the Subaru FF-1 "Star" or "G" versions, that engine came with dual carburetors as a factory option for the Sport Package, but the valves and everything else came equal to the Standard version engine. But both the EA71 (1600) and the EA81 (1800) engines that came optionally with Twin Carburators from Factory, (those were defined by a following "S" at the end on their engine codes, this was Subaru's way of calling it the Sports model.) These engines were completely differently designed to the standard models. The "S" models had Dual Ports and Opposite Valve configuration, which means different cams and rocker gear.They were available in Japan in the Subaru Leone GSR and in the later first gen Leone RX Models. These engines has Higher Compression Ratio and had ~10% more power output. They were used heavily in the late 70's and early 80's Rally cars. ... When i was looking and planning i decided that i would either make or have someone make me a custom intake that would mount dual carbs directly over the heads like some of the old VW crowd does. ... Do you Mean like This? (this is an EA71): I've seen such conversions, even done to EJ engines......Usually to be Mounted in VolksWagens... The carbs came on the heads of the EA81 RX overseas. ... Yes! ...Seen an old brochure picture and in it they show a couple different shots of the engine. ... Yes, it is this: And this are Photos of the Car on the 1983 Safari Rally Race: When Subaru Developed that Head-Mounted Twin downdraft Weber Carb EA81S engine with Reversed Valves, they already had the Turbo EFi Technology; so, very Few of those EA81S with Twin Webers were made, since Subaru started to sell the "Turbo Traction" Models in 1982 in Japan, and in 1983 worldwide... Very Few Twin Weber Carb Models were Available for Sale, mainly in Japan and New Zealand,like This one, which was for sale some months ago:I'll Love to Own one of those Second Gen Leone RX with Twin Weber Carbs!Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeroy Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Factory Twin Carb Subaru EA Engines were available since the EA62 (1300) engine which came on the Subaru FF-1 "Star" or "G" versions, that engine came with dual carburetors as a factory option for the Sport Package, but the valves and everything else came equal to the Standard version engine. But both the EA71 (1600) and the EA81 (1800) engines that came optionally with Twin Carburators from Factory, (those were defined by a following "S" at the end on their engine codes, this was Subaru's way of calling it the Sports model.) These engines were completely differently designed to the standard models. The "S" models had Dual Ports and Opposite Valve configuration, which means different cams and rocker gear. They were available in Japan in the Subaru Leone GSR and in the later first gen Leone RX Models. These engines has Higher Compression Ratio and had ~10% more power output. They were used heavily in the late 70's and early 80's Rally cars. I do not believe the EA71 twin carb engines ever came with reversed valves or dual exhaust ports. Perhaps Subaru used them in competition but they were not available to the public. Certainly none of the various parts catalogues I have list different heads for the EA71. Even my FJ1600 twin carb engine has your average single port heads with standard valve configuration. This is slightly off topic, however, I wonder if anyone has ever come across a dual exhaust port EA71 engine or head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) I believe that config came on the Subaru Manatee, but I am Not Sure. The Production of the EA71 ended in 1994, that was the most widely used engine for Latin America and Asia in the 1980's decade, and the Later versions came EFi for JDM and very Few other areas; the EFi EA71 came on the Subaru Leone Gen III "Maia" Limited Edition. More info on the Legendary "Strange & Weird Subaru Stuff" (underlined words are a web link to the Maia EA71 Subaru info and photos on that thread) Kind Regards. ► Edit: I'm so Sorry for Hijack this Thread. Edited October 7, 2014 by Loyale 2.7 Turbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 This Post: The Name of those Racing Subaru Cars, is MANATEE, is Still Written and can be Partially readed on this Pic: Just behind the Driver's place. Is taken from This Thread:~► http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/95279-fj1600-question/Which features photos of the two generations of Subaru Manatees.Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeroy Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 I actually have an FJ1600 EA71 engine from a 'Manatee' and I can confirm that while it is twin carb, it does not have dual port heads or reversed valves like the EA81S. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted October 7, 2014 Share Posted October 7, 2014 Thank you for Sharing the Accurate information. Could you share Photos of your Subaru Manatee, on that Manatee thread, (to avoid hijack this thread) whose Link is Posted Above? Kind Regards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiGL Posted October 7, 2014 Author Share Posted October 7, 2014 I don't mind if this gets hijacked, my original question has been more than answered already. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeroy Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Thank you for Sharing the Accurate information. Could you share Photos of your Subaru Manatee, on that Manatee thread, (to avoid hijack this thread) whose Link is Posted Above? Kind Regards. I would post photos but it is an engine only, so not really that interesting (plus it is 'buried' in my garage)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dania02525 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 This is beautiful. I would love to do a cad model of this and open source it on the form for anyone to 3d print. Looks like it would have like nothing on the low end with the carbs being so close to the valves- thats like strictly high RPM resonance. With the CAD model, it could be determined what the resonance peak would be for a given airflow, and the pipe could be tuned to optimize it for certain rpm set ups. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 This is beautiful... Indeed, this is an Awesome EA71. ... I would love to do a cad model of this and open source it on the form for anyone to 3d print. ... That would be Great! ... With the CAD model, it could be determined what the resonance peak would be for a given airflow, and the pipe could be tuned to optimize it for certain rpm set ups. Which Pipe? The Exhaust pipe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom0 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) Think she* means intake (the length between carbs and valves/cylinders). Tune length to optimize certain rpms. Tom Edit: Gender-blind. Edited October 10, 2014 by Tom0 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dania02525 Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Think he means intake (the length between carbs and valves/cylinders). Tune length to optimize certain rpms. Tom *she Fixed that for ya :-) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 I think the photo of the secret bits is the key , put together with a few comments by a rally fabricator I had fix my bullbar, many years ago. Brian was a Kiwi, and in the workshop of a big time Aussie rally champ. He told me that back in the day of the EA81 Subaru sold a 4WD sedan in NZ, but not here in Oz ( must be our better roads ) and he addedd that Subaru sold a kit to end up with twin webers mounted directly over the heads. Guess that is the head in the picture of parts - a 4 port head for EA81 - a performance enhancement over their already sought after now EX IN IN EX arranged EA81S twin Hitachi engine. Man, a four port head on an EA81S, or any EA81 would be a snorting beast, maybe impossible to drive daily in traffic ?? Someone get onto a Chinese based foundry to make new ones ! !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 ... Subaru sold a kit to end up with twin webers mounted directly over the heads. ... I'll Love to have more information about that, such like Part Numbers and Photos. Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 Off-Topic, but... *she Fixed that for ya :-) ...Very Kindly, let me suggest you to update your User Profile Page, because it lacks the "Gender" information, and Despite that Dania is a female name, usually the User Name / Screen Name is not exactly the real person's name, in fact usually it is the Car's name. Kind Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom0 Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 My apologies there.Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1000 Pistes Posted December 6, 2014 Share Posted December 6, 2014 I think the photo of the secret bits is the key , put together with a few comments by a rally fabricator I had fix my bullbar, many years ago. Brian was a Kiwi, and in the workshop of a big time Aussie rally champ. He told me that back in the day of the EA81 Subaru sold a 4WD sedan in NZ, but not here in Oz ( must be our better roads ) and he addedd that Subaru sold a kit to end up with twin webers mounted directly over the heads. Guess that is the head in the picture of parts - a 4 port head for EA81 - a performance enhancement over their already sought after now EX IN IN EX arranged EA81S twin Hitachi engine. Man, a four port head on an EA81S, or any EA81 would be a snorting beast, maybe impossible to drive daily in traffic ?? Someone get onto a Chinese based foundry to make new ones ! !! Any news about this Chinese operation ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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