99 Outback with blown 2.5, what to do?

[ystrdyisgone]

Hey folks, I've graduated from the old school forum up to this one. Today I brought home this little beauty for 600 bucks! (Insert Photo Here, tomorrow)

 

Got it from an aquiantance who didn't wanna deal with the "hassle" of getting a new engine. Score for me! So a rebuilt 2.5 was put in it at 167k, and it currently has 186k. It was done by a place in Portland. Unfortunately their warranty is based on months not miles. So the engine is not officially blown, but I suspect a spun bearing. It has a horrifying knock/clicking sound, very loud. Sure sounds like she's broken. I'll get a vid tomorrow too.

 

I'm now faced with a decision. I'm fairly certain I don't want a 2.5 because of all the horror stories I've heard about them, between blown headgaskets and spun bearings and thrown rods... My wife has the exact same car, like same color and everything, with the 2.2 swapped into it. The reliability is appealing, but the 2.2 makes it a bit sluggish. Especially after having just put an ej in my GL.

 

I'm considering a frankenmotor, will need to do some research on that to check compatibility.

 

But I've also been playing with the idea of a WRX swap.

 

I'm posting this because I'm open to suggestions. So let em rip people!

 

Thanks ahead of time.

[lmdew]

Make sure the noise is not a timing part that's loose.  

Does your better half's car go down the road at the speed limit?  If so just be happy with the 2.2, so easy to work on,  Reliable.  I have the same 98 Outback 5sp with 2.2.  I tow dolly's with Subarus in tow,  The 2.2 gets the job done!

[idosubaru]

the 2.2 is orders of magnitude better...it's worth a slight reduction in power IMO.  the EJ25D is a terrible engine.  they're hard to find in great condition without the unknown "how often, many times, and badly was it overheated over the past 15 years?"  if good, reasonable cost EJ25's were available that would change my tone.

Edited October 15, 2014 by grossgary

[ystrdyisgone]

I'll have to check it out a bit closer today, but sure seems internal to me.

My wife's car goes just fine. On large hills, like on the way to the ski mountain, it struggles and stays at about 40mph. But yes I may just listen to the voice of reason and find myself a 2.2. It is an auto though, which sounds more convenient, but I would prefer a 5 spd.

Anyone think it would be worth building a frankenmotor? I heard Shawn at retroroo sells them.

I was doing some research on a turbo swap last night, and it sounds like a nightmare. But one other option occurred to me. I could put the 2.5 heads on a 2.2 block for a low compression engine, and add a supercharger . There's a setup for an eaton m90 on my local craigslist that will bolt right onto the ej. Just not sure if it's worth it, or if the stock ecu would handle that very well.

Edited October 15, 2014 by ystrdyisgone

[ystrdyisgone]

Here's a picture of it:

 

 

And our pile of subies:

 

[craigmcd]

My daughter has the 1999 Outback (formerly my wife's). It went through the EJ25 head gasket issue, but since the car is in very good shape overall, we decided to replace the engine with a completely rebuilt one. We went through a Subaru engine rebuilder in Commerce City, CO (that is all they do) -- luckily at the time we lived only 1 hour away, we drove the car in for the swap. That engine has done great, with no problems at all now for 4 or so years. As engines go it was expensive, but a complete rebuild from top to bottom, with a 3 year warranty. It worked for our budget. Good luck

[ystrdyisgone]

That's CCR right? I've definitely heard good things about them. How much did you pay when all was said and done if you don't mind me asking?

 

I'm still a bit leery of getting another 2.5, this will be the car's third.. That warranty definitely helps sweeten the deal, but I don't know.

[lmdew]

You pull and pay 2.2 $300

New T-belt, seals, plugs, valve cover gaskets $200

So for about $500  and your time you are going down the road for Years!

[ystrdyisgone]

Yeah yeah.. Haha I'm really leaning that way. I don't have any options for u-pull around here though.

 

Here's a vid of the current engine:

 

[lmdew]

I'd take the time to pull the timing covers and make sure the T-belt or gears are not the problem.

 

www.car-part.com is another good source.  $200-$300 for shipping is what I've paid in the past.

[Stevo F]

As for Frankenmotors, I've read the EJ22 with EJ25D heads is a good running engine. If you locate an WJ22, you'll already have a set up heads to try it out.

[idosubaru]

, it struggles and stays at about 40mph. But yes I may just listen to the voice of reason and find myself a 2.2..

 

an EJ22 struggling to go 40 mph is not running properly

[ystrdyisgone]

@lmdew- That's not too bad on the shipping, probably 1000 bucks in the end? I'll get those covers off tomorrow and see if there's anything to see under there. Boy would that be an amazing surprise!

 

@Stevo- It's definitely something I'm considering. And with the low compression, it would be a perfect candidate for the eaton m90 setup that I have a line on right now.

 

@grossgary- I'm talking pretty steep incline, from 7500 feet up to about 10k over the course of two or three miles. Even in the heavy outback that's odd? I can definitely look into her engine further if that still seems to be off. But it appears to run just fine any other time, if anything just a bit slower on acceleration than she would like. She keeps hinting at me with one word, "Turbo??"

[craigmcd]

At CCR it seems we paid $2500 - plus one of their guys did the install for a very reasonable $500. Of course they kept the core. Keep in mind this is 4, maybe 5 years ago now. I remember it being our most expensive option, but it also came with 3 year/30K warranty - well beyond the other places we talked to (they were at 90 days). The other places built all kinds of engines, while CCR only rebuilds Subi, so they know the engines well.

 

The proof is in the results. That 1999 is with my daughter in college, and has done many many highway miles back and forth (CO to NY). Since we tend to hang onto cars for a long time, it made sense to me to install a quality engine at a price well below an unknown used car. If you are looking to sell your '99 after fixing the engine, than you will never get your money out of it. BTW, Audrey consistently gets the same or slightly better mpg than the original engine (25.5 mpg)

[idosubaru]

m .

 

@grossgary- I'm talking pretty steep incline, from 7500 feet up to about 10k over the course of two or three miles. Even in the heavy outback that's odd??"

 

yes, that's odd, not normal.  i'd repair, maintain/freshen up the engine, something doesn't sound right.

 

my EJ18 swapped legacy traverses 6% interstate grades at highway speeds, though it starts to slow down if i change the gearing (large tires) or carry 1,000+ pounds.

 

a side note, that elevation you described is almost a 25% grade (2,500 ft divided by 10,560 ft). that's 4 times more than the legal grade for interstates without a special permit, which is like 6%.  if indeed you travel one of the steepest roads in the country then maybe you need more power.

Edited October 16, 2014 by grossgary

[ystrdyisgone]

@grossgary- Hmm, well it's not 25% grade, it must be either more miles, or less elevation gain. Okay looked it up, it is actually only 6200 to ~7500. It's also not an interstate. And it's Big Sky, to be specific. I'll check her engine out this week.

 

@craigmcd- I'm not looking to sell the car. I'll be keeping it and probably selling my EJ'd GL. So it may be worth it. But I also am leaning towards finding a used ej22, resealing it and calling it a day.

Edited October 17, 2014 by ystrdyisgone

[lmdew]

Have a 99 2.5 DOHC running, but a slight valve tick (bent valve) About 195K on it.  $150+shipping from 80916

[tbolt1003]

I got a quote today from CCR for an EJ25 for our 99 Forester and I was given a price of $3895. I believe that included shipping to PA. Still, one of the better businesses I've heard of that deal only with Subaru engines.

[ystrdyisgone]

lmdew- that's tempting, I'll let you know if I decide to head the 2.5 route.

 

As of right now, I'm really considering picking up this supercharger, and running low boost(5-10) on a reverse frankenmotor (2.5d heads, 2.2 shortblock preferably phase II) Going to do some more research and see if it's as simple as swapping out the shortblock. I read that the stock 2.5 ecu will be fine with the changes as long as I get a voltage clamp for the maf. But again, also have to do some more research on that.

[ystrdyisgone]

Update on the car: Got the t-belt covers off. Everything under there looks great. This engine is spotless too, no oil leaks at all. It's really a sad thing. I cranked the crank pulley with a breaker bar before removing the covers and can most definitely hear bad noises coming from inside the block.

 

Supercharger idea is now cancelled.

 

So back to square one. Looking around for a 99 ej22, or a low mileage 2.5.

 

lmdew I definitely like the $$ side of your offer, but the mileage is a bit worrisome.

[idosubaru]

got time to throw in some new rod and/or main bearings and see what happens to the current block?

 

i assume by 99 Ej22 you mean just the short block?  i'm sure you know that engine isn't interchangeable like earlier 2.2's.

99-2001 EJ22's are identical.  99 are found in legacy/impreza and 00-01 EJ22's are in impreza only.

[ystrdyisgone]

I am a bit short on time and money. Currently a driveway mechanic, and it's starting to threaten snow out here.

 

Oh I was talking whole engine. I guess I'm not on the right page here. I was under the assumption that a phase 2 ej22 would plug right in and run off the stock 2.5 ecu.

 

Am I supposed to be looking for a phase 1 (95-96) one?

[lmdew]

www.car-part.com

 

Just plug in your year and model.

[ThosL]

I had a 2.2 transplant into my 99 Outback and have not had any engine problems since, except for the water pump.  

[ystrdyisgone]

Thanks for all the help people, I think I'll be swapping in an ej22 next spring. For now though, my seasonal job wants me to start asap, and I'd really like to get this OB going. I'm looking into simply replacing the shortblock of the 2.5. There are a couple ej25 shortblocks floating around the web from 2000+. Seems to me the blocks would be very similar. Anyone have experience using newer shortblocks with older heads and intake manifolds? Yes I know it's counter intuitive, but I just want to get this thing running.