pparrish Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I searched tick of death and I realize there have been many posts on the subject, but I have specific question I was unable to find the answer to. My 1992 Loyale has the TOD about 50% of the time. Seems to come and go. Will this cause damage to the motor if left as is? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 No worries, you can drive it indefinitely like that. I have a write up about it - find that write up. TOD approach: #1 reseal the oil pump #2 replace the oil pump Sometimes it's simpler to just skip to step #2 if you don't have tons of time or are paying a mechanic and don't want to pay them twice. That has fixed every single EA/ER HLA ticking I've ever encountered - it is highly successful. The only one it didn't fix was one that had been driven thousands of miles with a blown headgasket - there was a huge chunk of aluminum missing in the head where the HG breach was from the localized overheating. that one had two seized HLA's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibreakstuff Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Bearing bits will find their way into the HLA's also, if you have ever run low on oil or neglected oil changes. I have pumped out tons of crap from HLA's when cleaning with kerosene (RTFM FSM). My 90 loyale spfi had intermittent TOD (@~100k miles). The oil pump reseal is solid advice tho, they tend to suck air when the seal goes. Edited October 22, 2014 by Ibreakstuff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 If yours is so slight, another thing you might try is changing the weight of oil you use next oil change. Whats in it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdweninger Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Sometimes a small exhaust leak at the header sounds like a tick. When the pipes get hot... the tick will stop. That could be why your tick is intermitent ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superpoo93 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 It was annoying to me so I rebuilt the HLA's, and replaced the oil pump/ seals What I didn't know at the time., was the reinforced oring between the head, and block could be the culprit. Not to mention rtv getting into the oil port in the cam assem. You could try Lucas Oil Stabilizer, in the oil to quite them down a bit, it's only a temp fix till you find time to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Deploy the anti-tick device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibreakstuff Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Deploy the anti-tick device. Straight pipe and loud music? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Straight pipe and loud music? That is the same device that fixes my squeaky brake caliper and my failing transmission. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 That is the same device that fixes my squeaky brake caliper and my failing transmission. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper 157 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Okay so what specifically causes the TOD? is it the lifters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Okay so what specifically causes the TOD? is it the lifters? There are no lifters. "causes" - do you mean what ***makes*** the sound or ***causes*** the sound? The HLA's ***make*** the sound but the ***cause*** could be a few things. Usually it's oil supply related, sometimes it's HLA related. Read this, then read it again then again. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/136547-ea82-er27-ticking-tod-hydraulic-valve-lash-hla-noise-diagnose-and-repair/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibreakstuff Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) There are no lifters. "causes" - do you mean what ***makes*** the sound or ***causes*** the sound? The HLA's ***make*** the sound but the ***cause*** could be a few things. Usually it's oil supply related, sometimes it's HLA related. Read this, then read it again then again. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/136547-ea82-er27-ticking-tod-hydraulic-valve-lash-hla-noise-diagnose-and-repair/ Semantics.... HLA's (hydraulic lash adjusters) are commonly called lifters (re synonymous). This is actually what Subaru calls them too, "valve lifters". I concede it is somewhat of a misnomer technically.. The cam followers are also commonly called rocker arms... Look up "valve lifters" and "rocker arm" in a Subaru eparts store.. they even use both terms all the way up to the new FA20/FB20/FB25 motors. Even tho the new FA/FB's use solid lash adjusters and class 3 roller cam followers, still called lifters and rocker arms in the parts system. The sound comes from the lifter moving up and down in the sleeve or the rocker slapping cam/lifter/valve. When the HLA's are not functioning properly, they fail to "pump up" fully. This causes a much larger gap (lash) between the cam and the rocker arm. HLA's are at the end of the oil supply, so naturally when they start slapping it should raise a red flag. The next to suffer with loss of oil pressure would be cam squirters and rod bearings. Edit: After re-reading, my reply might have sounded harsh lol. I ment no disrespect Gary and would definitely recommend your guide, it is full of great advice. I would agree that most TOD issues can be fixed with a oil pump re-seal, but I have had bad HLA's and other things causing oil starvation issues (cam case o-ring and oil pressure sender). Edited October 23, 2014 by Ibreakstuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyale1993 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 If yours is so slight, another thing you might try is changing the weight of oil you use next oil change. Whats in it now? I'm having the same issue. The TOD isn't all the time. I recently replaced the shaft seal,o ring, and the mickey mouse gasket. And still TOD! I've read about using different weight oil and also using Seafoam in the engine. Any more info about these options? Sorry if I high jacked the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapper 157 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I read on another thread that using 10w-30 oil as opposed to 5w-30 will fix it sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparrish Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 My TOD began after I did some major engine work. Had everything off down to the block due to head gasket issues. Resurfaced, resealed, new gaskets all around. Had each HLA out for inspection and priming. New oil pump. Put it all back together and TOD. Around 40k miles since engine work. Use Lucas oil treatment and 15w40. Recently added whole can of seafoam to the crankcase before last oil change. Oil pressure is fine. Power is fine. Rarely any hesitation. Drive 90 miles at 55-60mph to work without any problem. Thus far, the factory anti tick device is the only thing that has worked. Grossgary says drive it without worry. That puts my mind at ease. I'd like to read your write up on that subject. What do i search for? Thanks, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Sometimes a small exhaust leak at the header sounds like a tick. When the pipes get hot... the tick will stop. That could be why your tick is intermitent ??? Possible. I have had intermittent TOD also. My guess is that whichever cause is letting air in, or lowering the oil delivery is right on the edge of enough to keep them quiet, vs just enough to cause TOD. It also seems to me, that in the case of air bubbles, it may take a while for trapped air to get pushed out of the lifter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibreakstuff Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) I read on another thread that using 10w-30 oil as opposed to 5w-30 will fix it sometimes. At full running engine temp, there is no difference in viscosity between 5w30 and 10w30. So it would be 0w40 (cold climate) / 5w40 / 10w40 / 15w50 that would help quiet down the HLA's. The increase in viscosity raises the oil pressure some. Pulled from an old post: 0W40 is actually thicker @ 210F than 10w30, the first number is for winter grades.. Which is directly effected by how much pour point depressant additives are in it. Think of it like something they put in to keep the oil flowing at cold temperature, but the actual viscosity @ 210F is unchanged. Consider the second number as oil film strength, what really matters when the engine is running for any period of time. Edited October 24, 2014 by Ibreakstuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I started up the gl today and it was ticking. I revved the motor at a steady 2k for about 6, 7 minutes. Tick gone. Highway runs get rid of it for me too. I'm still on my original oil pump and gasket though, so that's probably why my car does it. With a fresh seal, idk. I'd change the pump too. I've seen them for roughly 60 dollars. In my opinion any 5w oils are not a good idea for these cars. 10/40 should cover most bases. I'm having the same issue. The TOD isn't all the time. I recently replaced the shaft seal,o ring, and the mickey mouse gasket. And still TOD! I've read about using different weight oil and also using Seafoam in the engine. Any more info about these options? Sorry if I high jacked the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rust Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I'll personally never bother with replacing the oil pump/mickey mouse gaskets ever again. I've done it many times on multiple ea82 engines, only to have the tic come back again. Giving the engine a flush w/ ATF/Risoline/Seafoam/ ect has given me the best , most long lasting results. I also run 5w30 and commute 500 miles weekly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdweninger Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 My Dad swore by Rislone. It kind of smells like ATF. A very experienced mechanic (45 years) told me about the ATF trick when I had my first TOD in 2000. And that fixed the problem. Now, I just add a half quart of ATF just before every oil change, run the motor for 15 minutes, drain oil and replace filter. Fill with Delo 15-40. I wish I would have 'invented' Seafoam. I'd be like Oprah ... "and You get a car.... and You get a car .... " Never used the Seafoam... but the hype is ridiculous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 i Edit: After re-reading, my reply might have sounded harsh lol. i started the semantic dissection, no sweat. sadly I thought the question was a silly question, i know, shame on me. so i tossed back a silly-ish reply. I was unsure why it mattered "what causes it". It's such an endless circular discussion sometimes. forgive me. I'm glad we fleshed it all out. A+ for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) I'm having the same issue. The TOD isn't all the time. I recently replaced the shaft seal,o ring, and the mickey mouse gasket. And still TOD! I've read about using different weight oil and also using Seafoam in the engine. Any more info about these options? Sorry if I high jacked the thread. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/136547-ea82-er27-ticking-tod-hydraulic-valve-lash-hla-noise-diagnose-and-repair/ replace the oil pump or reseal the cam tower and replace the HLA's if you want. can also run 1 - 3 quarts of ATF in place of oil for varying lengths of time - the more ATF you use the less severe i'd run it...i can't speak to longevity of that "repair" or "mitigation"- but i've seen it help in the short term at least from memory over a decade ago. since replacing the oil pump has fixed it every time since then i've found no need to try anything else. Edited October 24, 2014 by grossgary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Loyale Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) Straight pipe and loud music? YEP! If you can't hear it, it's not a problem right? LOL Edited October 24, 2014 by MR_Loyale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverback Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) Here are a few details to think about. As mentioned previously, the special o-ring at the cam case is to be the Subaru o-ring. During my adventures at PnP and removing cam towers, I am not surprised to find brittle, deformed and crumbling o-rings. Bad idea to use regular o-rings. 'Oil relief tubes' at the cam tower. There are relief valves. The springs get tired. Inspect the springs. Stretch the old ones while you order new 'relief springs' from Subaru. Never use silicone on the cam towers. The infamous cam case o-ring. Don't leave home without them. Edited October 29, 2014 by silverback 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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