FINALLY got a replacement 5spd d/r. Couple questions

[l75eya]

Look what I got! 89k on it, has been sitting in a container at the junkyard I picked it up from since 1993. Car it came from was an 85 so it was only used for 8 years. High mileage for it's age, but low mileage for me!! The trans in my car is getting pretty bad too so it couldn't be better timing.

Anyway, excitement aside, reason for posting;
I'm going to be scouring all the threads on how to swap transmissions out, as I've never done one, as well as clutch jobs as I figure I may as well put a new clutch in while it's all apart.

I'm figuring I'm going to pull the car up on ramps on all four wheels, that should give me a pretty good working space underneath the car.

Do I need to remove the flywheel and have it re-surfaced? Is that advisable? My car has 82k on it.

 

Also, should I go through the trouble of cleaning it up and painting it before installing it? Any tips or things to check on beforehand?

I have a lot of questions about how things are going to connect, but I figure as I take my trans out I will see.

Glad I've FINALLY found one.

[l75eya]

Any particular seals I should replace also?

And the clutch alignment tool, I've heard some people not use it, what gives, do I need it?

 

Adding to this as I think of things,

I've been searching for the part number for a d/r 4wd 5 speed GL clutch cable. Anybody know?

Edited October 25, 2014 by l75eya

[Ibreakstuff]

If it was me, I would get the flywheel machined to XT6 specs and use a XT6 PP/clutch kit.

Cleaning would allow you to find leaks sooner.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Ibreakstuff

[Mykeys Toy]

the connector for reverse lights may be different is the only thing I can think of.. Higher clamping clutch is cool but unless you hodrod or offroad your car I don't see a need to go that far.  Have the flywheel turned put a new clutch and t/o bearing in. and go.. The installation should be plug and play no other mods necessary so long as you are in a gen3.  I am assuming that you are.

[l75eya]

yeah, it's an 85 gl 5 speed dual range trans and it is going in to my 87 gl 5 speed dual range. The dual range in my 87 is not healthy, and this is it's replacement.

ibreakstuff, why would I do that, and what are the specs? I'd HAVE to get an xt6 clutch kit then?

[MR_Loyale]

First off CONGRATULATIONS! Now the first thing you are going to do is change the fluid, right? Take good care of that new dual range man.  It will take you on your next trip across the country!

 

And I'd powerwash the grease and crap off it while you got it out of there. Will make it easier to see if anything leaks later on plus not as much of a mess to work on during installation and regular fluid changes.

Edited October 25, 2014 by MR_Loyale

[MR_Loyale]

the connector for reverse lights may be different is the only thing I can think of.. Higher clamping clutch is cool but unless you hodrod or offroad your car I don't see a need to go that far.  Have the flywheel turned put a new clutch and t/o bearing in. and go.. The installation should be plug and play no other mods necessary so long as you are in a gen3.  I am assuming that you are.

 

 His car came from the factory with dual range. Shouldn't it just swap right in?

Edited October 25, 2014 by MR_Loyale

[l75eya]

First off CONRATULATIONS! Now the first thing you are going to do is change the fluid, right?

 

Hahahaha!!! Damn right. Funny enough though, I pulled the dipstick and looked at the gear oil that's in it right now and it's nice goopy and clean. It looks like it was just replaced.

 

Either way though, yes. As soon as it's in, that's all getting drained and some real expensive (royal purple or the like) is going in there. Thanks Mr. Loyale!

 

Now, ibreakstuff, I compared the Exedy clutch kit for an 87 4wd GL to an 89 XT6 (beck arnley) and they all have the same specs. 8 7/8" diameter 225mm, 24 spline. Where's the difference?

[l75eya]

Still on rockauto. I see a clutch pilot bearing, I see a clutch release bearing......

Can anybody give me a little low-down on where these go and the difference between the two?

Are there any difference between the FWD or 4WD or 4WD D/R of either? I want to replace as many things as I logically should while the trans is still sitting on my floor."

Essentially, if you go to rockauto and look up an 87 GL and then expand the manual transmission box, I'm curious about every bearing and seal listed in there. Does anybody have a blow up diagram of the trans? That'd be helpful.

Edited October 25, 2014 by l75eya

[Scooner]

Another option you might have is taking your tranny to a tranny shop and having them deep clean it and replace seals. I have no idea what that would cost but might be an option if it isn't too expensive?

The pilot bearing is a real small one the shaft of the trannys tip rides in that is in the flywheel. It's about the size of a half dollar? The other is the throwout or clutch release bearing that the clutch fork presses agains't the pressure plate. Both of these you will see when you do the tear down. DO NOT FORGET TO PUT THE HOLDER SPRINGS BACK ON THE THROWOUT BEARING! haha they hold the fork to the bearing. You'll see once you get it all apart. Pretty simple in there actually! Good luck bro!

[l75eya]

Thanks Scooner! I went ahead and ordered the regular 4wd GL clutch kit, Exedy brand.

I'd like to have it sent out and cleaned but I'm on a shoe-string budget and I doubt there are any shops nearby me that do anything like that either way. I'll clean it up as best I can myself.

[Scooner]

Awesome possum. Yeah man, that's a great find. I think a car wash pressure spray should be plenty to clean it up. Also, make sure you grease the part where the throw out bearing slides, doesn't have to be crazy greased, just enough for it to slide. When you put the clutch and pressure plate on the engine be sure and use the clutch alignment tool, (plastic stub thing in clutch kit with splines) it will hold the clutch perfectly center as you tighten the pressure plate bolts.

The regular 4WD GL clutch kit will be fine, you've got an EA82...not exactly a power monster haha. I use one in my EJ swapped loyale and hot rod the crap out of her haha

[jono]

nice find, and goshm, so much advice already, no time to read, but will suggest what I did.

 

I used different colours from model paint set to colour code the different sections of the gear shift 1 -5 + R while it was all still out, clean and assembled.

 

The colour coding was so I could tell at a quick moment while laying underneath, what went where, and which way! There is one or two? bolts that go one way best first time. Painted the bolt head and bush end same colour, but different to the nut ends etc. helped me several times so far. And mark where the spring fits up for the tension in there.

[Mykeys Toy]

Now that you got that sorted take plenty of before, during and after pics.

[turbosubarubrat]

Whats wrong with the transmission in the car? If it only has 82k it shouldn't be bad already unless it wasn't treated good. Is it slipping, grinding, clunking?

[Ibreakstuff]

 

Hahahaha!!! Damn right. Funny enough though, I pulled the dipstick and looked at the gear oil that's in it right now and it's nice goopy and clean. It looks like it was just replaced.

 

Either way though, yes. As soon as it's in, that's all getting drained and some real expensive (royal purple or the like) is going in there. Thanks Mr. Loyale!

 

Now, ibreakstuff, I compared the Exedy clutch kit for an 87 4wd GL to an 89 XT6 (beck arnley) and they all have the same specs. 8 7/8" diameter 225mm, 24 spline. Where's the difference?

 

The difference is the the pressure plate and the step height on the flywheel, the dimension of the clutch disc's are probably the same (not sure). I have read that a XT6 clutch/pressure plate will work even without the flywheel modification but it's easy for a machinist to grind the step to .815 (XT6 spec).

 

Edit: To explain further, basically the "step" is the surface that the pressure plate is bolted to. If it is lower, it obviously sandwiches the clutch plate tighter.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Ibreakstuff

[l75eya]

Spending the better part of the day just reading up on things,
Recently came across this
http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/47560-85-89-5-speed-dr-4wd-trans-to-80-84-body-style/

 

Do I really have to drop the exhaust to get the trans out?
I'm sure it'll be obvious if I have to or not when I look under the car, but I'm hoping not. Last time I messed with those exhaust manifold bolts they did NOT want to play nice and I would up having to bring the car to meineke because I didn't want to deal with it. They had to drill the studs out and tap them. Funny how the thing I'm most nervous about with a trans removal doesn't even have to do with the trans...

[Mykeys Toy]

On the upside the exhaust bolts and studs should be easier this time after having all that done.

[l75eya]

On the upside the exhaust bolts and studs should be easier this time after having all that done.

So that's a yes? lol

[jono]

two comments

 

one is on flywheel mods to accept a different clutch set up. I started with concept suggested on EA81 flywheel modded to take EA82 clutch for the EA82 5 speed box behind it. Started with it so far - machinist grumbled about having to watch things as it ground away, not knowing how long = not knowing how much. Suggested I take it to another named machinist, he looked and said to get first machinist to remove cover align pins on top deck, grind hard spots on lower deck and bring it back to machinist #2 for top deck lathe work. Did dthat and returned to find progress stopped. Could not get EA81 fly on lathe due to the shape of engine side of EA81 flywheel "chamfer". Needs to make an adaptor or, noticed a new ring gear would not hurt. Was willing to remove and fit new ring gear if they are available, take it back to grinder so he can do top deck, refit cover align pins, then back to have new ring gear fitted - free

 

to do a 23mm step flywheel down to 21mm needs to take into account that there is a ring gear that is best most machined down thinner, so needs to be removed for grinding, or machined up to it - giving three distinct steps on the flywheel in the end

 

bit of a run around - getting there, just looking for new ring gear at moment ....

 

The exhaust studs and holes. A tip for any Sube enthusiast doing own work is to be armed with a thread repair kit and get some practice

 

Alternative repairs have been to cut exhaust below flanges, rotate and use the other pair of stud holes. Not fun for inter swapping exhausts between cars done, not done 

Edited October 26, 2014 by jono

[wagonist]

For clutch aligning tool, if your old trannie is completely stuffed and you don't think it'd be wanted by anyone else (considering it's a rare dual range) then cut off the input shaft as close to the casing as possible & use that as your clutch alignment tool.

 

And if the wiring is different, just unplug & use the one off your existing (though being similar generation, I'd be surprised if they're different)

[MR_Loyale]

You will prob get a pilot bearing with the clutch (I got one with my Exedy clutch, which is the OEM supplier). This image shows the pilot bearing and clutch release bearing(also know as the throwout bearing).

 

[l75eya]

For clutch aligning tool, if your old trannie is completely stuffed and you don't think it'd be wanted by anyone else (considering it's a rare dual range) then cut off the input shaft as close to the casing as possible & use that as your clutch alignment tool.

 

And if the wiring is different, just unplug & use the one off your existing (though being similar generation, I'd be surprised if they're different)

 

Yeah, I'm counting on it being identical really, no reason I see it would vary at all. After I get my dual range out I'm going to split the case and see what there is to see. Maybe there's just one bearing inside that has grenaded.

 

MR_Loyale, thank you for the diagram. That is a fundamental way to look at it and easily grasp what bearing is which and so on. Good stuff.

 

 

You will prob get a pilot bearing with the clutch (I got one with my Exedy clutch, which is the OEM supplier). This image shows the pilot bearing and clutch release bearing(also know as the throwout bearing).

[silverback]

? Exedy #15008 clutch kit?  You will receive a clutch alignment tool. It has 24 splines. Some manuals list the input shaft with 25 and that is incorrect.

 

Not sure where you will be crawling around. If you are on soft terrain/gravel. put down a piece of plywood. The wheels of jacks will roll OK on plywood. If you drop a small part, it will be easier to find. Warmer too.

[silverback]

1987 4WD

 

Edited October 28, 2014 by silverback