EA81 Blown Head Gaskets or Bad Intake Gaskets? Coolant in all 4 cylinders with white paste mystery blockage!

[Ryker101]

Greetings everyone:

 

My first post, here goes:

 

Background on the Car: 1984 Subaru 155K miles. I bought this car not running. I don't know much of the history other than it hasn't been on the road since 2002. The previous owner parked it because it stopped running.

 

After inspecting the motor and pulling the plugs, I found coolant in all four cylinder heads; intially, I thought that the motor had blown head gaskets- but then after reading several posts on USMB, it got me thinking the intake manifold gaskets were bad. This would explain why I had coolant in all four cylinders.

 

So, I went ahead and pulled the intake manifold last weekend- and, to my surprise, found the passenger side coolant passage completely blocked with this white waxy/pasty gunk. I have no idea what this substance was, it reminded me of Elmer's Glue white paste. The blockage was about 1" thick. The only thing I can think of is that the previous owner added "Head Gasket Sealent" attempting to seal the coolant leak that was getting into the heads and the stuff sealed up the intake coolant port. So, I cleaned this blockage out the best I could using the head of a flat head screw driver and flushed the coolant ports out with water.  I just finished cleaning the intake manifold mating surfaces in preperation for the new gaskets. I have also replaced the thermostat and thermostat gasket while the intake is off.

 

My question is: Since the intake is already off, should I replace the  head gaskets as well? I'm worried that after putting the new intake gaskets on, I'll find out that the head gaskets are bad and have to replace the intake gaskets twice (cleaning those mating surfaces was not fun and I would hate to do it twice!).

 

If I don't pull the heads and just replace the intake gaskets, how should I go about getting the coolant out of the cylinder heads? When I turn the motor over with a wrench I can see coolant in the intake port as well as see pooling coolant looking through the spark plug hole. Should I consider flushing out the clyinder heads, then sucking out the water and coolant with a pump?

 

 

Check out this pictures I took of the gaskets and unkown blockage substance:

http://www.dropbox.com/sh/nnwoarop3cy5g3v/AAB1IrYALGDwwEL3_-LZv3gVa?dl=0

 

I would really appreciate any advice people have.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jono]

You have an engine that has been sitting since 2002 - 12 years, water in all pots, and you think it might run without major work ? I picture rusted up valves, valve guides, pistons and bores also rusted up, rings stuck ......does it turn over by hand? does it have compression in all four pots ? How good or bad is comp ?I'd try first start without water.....

[Ryker101]

The motor turns over by hand smoothly and appers to have good compression. But I haven't checked the compression with a guage.

 

Side note: When I flushed the coolant ports I had the intake ports plugged with plastic. I'm begining to think my plastic plugs may have leaked a little adding to the coolant in cylinder problem.

 

So would you suggest pumping the water out of the cylinders and putting the intake back on and trying starting her up and see what happens?

 

Thanks.

[DaveT]

I'd put the intake on  and try it.  It's not that much work.  Redoing the head gaskets is a lot more than that, IF they are ok, you loose a lot more time / money than if it turns out they are bad.  If you use the OEM intake gaskets, they may even survive and be re usable if you determine the head gaskets are bad fairly quickly.

[silverback]

Nice project car.

What jono said.

All of the seals are bad.

Dump the oil. What does it look like?  Milky? Big problems.

Remove the valve covers. What does that area look like?

Perhaps that white substance is a salt that precipitated out of the coolant. What was the coolant like as in color? 

 

If you really want to make smoke/blow it up:

Dump old oil. Put in cheap oil. Prelube engine even though bearings are possibly bad. You will be pushing oil through all of the galleries.

Remove spark plugs. Rotate crank as fast as you can. Have assistant stand beside the block to observe liquid coming out plug holes.

Option A: 2-stroke oil is formulated to absorb water. Put 2-stroke oil in cylinders in attempt to remove water film. Water around pistons and rusted/frozen rings is bad ju-ju. Rotate the crank, rotate the crank. Rotate, rotate and rotate.

Option B: as above, put Marvel Mystery Oil into cylinders. Rotate the crank. Allow Marvel Mystery oil to soak down into ring/land area.

 

Dump the oil from the sump. New oil and filter. Have extra oil changes and filters. Replace intake manifold. If you go for a start-up with coolant, use straight water and fill as much of the engine as you can through the thermostat housing. Assemble thermostat housing and fill radiator.  Go for it.  The smoke coming out the exhaust pipe is the visual combustion indicator.

 

Good luck

Edited November 3, 2014 by silverback

[spazomatic]

If you have access to compressed air, thats your best bet for blowing any residual water out of the cylinders.

 

Pretty much what these guys said....squirt some oil in the cylinders (once the water is out) change the crankcase oil and filter. When test firing, just use water. Then if it blows it all out or you have to drain it, its not a big deal.

I wouldnt worry about head gaskets....with only 155k on the clock, she's just getting broke in!

 

How did the gaskets look just below the carburetor? Thats the spot i wouldve first suspected.

[Hsoj]

I hate to say it but....I would pull the motor and do the heads and all the seals and put it all back together so I could know its all done and I would know the condition of everything. Just so you dont have to throw good money after bad. I think the hardest part of doing head gaskets is the cleaning anyway. It does take some time and it seems daunting the first time but really its the way to go. If you try to lap the heads yourself and its not badly warped from overheating you dont need to spend money on shop work and you are only out the cash on the gaskets. People say these motors never blow headgaskets but you really dont know what the previous owners did to the car. Half the people who sell these cars have the "drive it till its dead" attitude and it could really be dead. Wait...isn't it dead?

 

I have a 130k brat, got it with a blown head, an 82 wagon with 249k got it at 210k head blew at 220k, and 84 wagon with 113k Blown head cuz the previous owner killed the dash and messed with carb, overheating it, had a 87 I got free with a blown head, a 90' lego $400 with a blown head and two other wagons I got with blown heads around 150k. Personally, I think non subi people sell these cars cuz they are about to blow. Otherwise, who would want to sell a good car?

Knowing its good right from the start will save you a headache later. 

[Ryker101]

First, thanks for all of the great comments on this. I drained the oil tonight and found a great deal of coolant in the oil (about 0.5 to 1 quart I would guess). The oil and coolant poured out completey seperated (the oil wasn't milky). I imagine since the car had been sitting so long, the two fluids seperated in the pan because of the different densities. I was surprised at how clean and dark green the coolant looked when it poured out. If there is coolant in the oil, what does that mean? Could this still have been caused by a bad intake gasket or does it point to headgasket?

 

The thing I keep debating is that if I have to tear this thing down, I might be better off finding another motor and saving the time and money that it would take to reseal the original motor. I I found another running motor that's not far from where I live. The seller claims it ran good when it was pulled. It's been in their garage for several years. They're asking $250 but I think I could get it for $150 or 200. What's your opinion?

 

I was thinking about just putting my exisiting motor back together (following the advice from the comments above) and try starting her up. If she runs, great. If not, just pull the motor and put another one in. I was wondering if I were to put the intake back on and got the engine to
start, what are the chances the motor would last? Maybe? ... or unlikely? ... or very unlikely?

 

 

 

Are there any good write-ups that anyone can direct me to on the procedure of replacing the head gaskets on these motors?

Edited November 8, 2014 by Ryker101

[Dee2]

Well, this ought to be interesting

[skishop69]

The mystery paste is silicates that have separated and solidified from the coolant and water. Not uncommon in older cars where the coolant was never changed or cheap coolant was used or 'bad' water. Clean it out and forget about it. Does it turn over easily by hand? IE: You don't feel anything hanging up as you rotate it by hand? If you had rusted rings, ring land issues or valve issues, you've already done damage rolling it over by hand without soaking the cylinders with Marvel first. I doubt seriously that you have any such damage as the engines are hella tough. Leave the oil out, pour some Marvel down each plug hole and rotate it by hand for a few minutes to work it in. Add some more and do half a dozen rotations and let it sit over night. Rotate it by hand again for a couple minutes and drain out whatever may now be in the crankcase. Add fresh, cheap oil and with the plugs out crank it with the starter for a minute or so. Put the plugs back in but don't add coolant. See if it starts. Don't run it for more than a minute at any give time without coolant or you could cause damage. If it does run, and seems to run ok, do this a couple more times with at least 5 minutes in between runs to allow heat to redistribute evenly and dissipate. Add your coolant and run it after this if it was running ok. You will most likely have a lot of smoke out the exhaust from any residual Marvel or coolant. If there is coolant trapped in the CAT or muffler, it could take up to 30 minutes at a high idle to burn out and clear up.Out of a dozen cars I've picked up after sitting for years, only one ended up breaking the rings (my XT GL10) and I'm pretty sure that was done by the wrecking yard cranking it over before I bought it. Worst one: 1952 Studebaker Commander that sat in a field for 20 years. Engine locked up, but 'ran when parked'. lol Soaked it for a few days, got it rolling over by hand then fired it up and ran fine. Well, fine after plugs, points, cap rotor and carb overhaul.... Point is, if you've already rolled it over, you really have nothing to loose by following everyone's advice to soak it and start it.

[spazomatic]

Id throw it together and run it. (After oiling, fresh this and that etc)

My 84 had sat for 8 years before i bought it. I didnt do anything but replace fuel system parts, oil and plugs, rotor, cap, etc. and she's still running well. Even passed emissions with no cat and a weber!

 

So get it running, and see how it does. Thats pretty low mileage on what is probably a decent motor.

[Ryker101]

After a long spell of inactivity, let me catch everyone up on what I have done and where I'm currently at with this project car. 

 

November/December 2014:

I lubed up the valves and piston heads with Marvel Mystery oil as Silverback suggested. Replaced the intake gasket and then put everything back together. Next, without any water I tried to start it up for the first time. At first, she didn't start- but, after resolving a fuel delivery issue (bad fuel pump), I finally got her to start. Besides the huge plume of smoke, the engine ran and sounded good. I assumed the large amount of smoke was the Marvel Mystery burning off. Since I didn't have any coolant cooling the motor down, I limited the time that I allowed the motor to run to under a minute. This wasn't enough time to see if the smoking would dissipate. Now that I knew it ran, I installed the water pump and added tap water. After adding water, I found that my radiator leaked. After sourcing a good used radiator, I finally was able to fire her up and let her run. I started it up and drove it around the block (at night because the smoke was really bad!) I would say it ran for less than 5 minutes, then I shut it off. When I went to try to start it again, she wouldn't start. After pulling the plugs, I found the cylinders full of water again . At this point, I was really disappointed so I parked it and put the project on hold for a bit.

 

Fast forward to now:

I've decided to start again on this project and I think I have two options: 1) replace the head gasket and rebuild the heads. 2) Source another EA81 that runs good and do a motor swap. 

 

Any advice on this?

 

After calling eight wrecking yards yesterday, I found only one good motor nearby but the wrecking yard wants a small fortune for it $650. They claim it came out of a rollover that only had 86,000 miles on it. This is about double what I was hoping to pay! The motor is out of a car that had an automatic  transmission. My car has a 4spd manual. The wrecking yard claimed that the motor for the automatic's is different then the motor that came with the  manual transmissions... is there any truth to that? Monday I plan to call more wrecking yards.

 

Thanks

[DaveT]

I 'm not an expert on EA81s.  But the flywheel is likely different.  But you have one.

On an EA82, the flywheel for a standard shift is a flywheel.  On an automatic, it's only a stamped steel thing that attaches to the torque converter.  There might be a few other little differences in the vacuum lines, but I'd think that could also be swapped.

[TomRhere]

'84 is the year that Subaru started to change over to hydraulic lifters.

Manual trans had solid lifter engines.

Auto trans had the hydraulic lifter engines.

 

Don't recall any other differences right now.

 

If engine you buy has a flex-plate for the auto trans, remove it. Pull clutch/flywheel from your old engine and bolt it on to the new one.

Must use flywheel bolts from your engine, as the flex-plate bolts are to short.

[turbosubarubrat]

I bought a 82 wagon with a ea81 a couple days ago with 181k. Turns out it had a broken push rod so i put in other one after taking out the two pieces. Runs good but has a blown head gasket(bubble in radiator). I would definitely take the heads to a machine shop to have them resurfaced and a valve job. The ea81 would be ready for another 100k after that. I want $100 for that engine if you want to come pick it up. I've ran it for a about 10 miles and have kept it cool while driving it on the farm.

Edited June 28, 2015 by turbosubarubrat