HG leaking again

[pyropyro]

Inherited moms car at 75,000 miles  right around 12 months ago. 

 

As is common, the HG seeped a bit.  This was a year ago.  I don't drive much.  And am poor.

 

I drained cooling system,   Put in Soob coolant and one Soob "conditioner".  Still leaked.  Started thread here about it.  Was advised adding ONE more Soob conditioner.  I did, and it has not leaked for around 2000 miles. 

 

It's now leaking again.  I can not do new gaskets at this time.

 

What are odds that drainiing,  installing new coolant and conditioner might get me another couple thousand miles leak free miles?  (or ANY leak free miles, for that matter?)

 

 

I'm saving my pennys for the HG job, but just not there yet.  Maybe next spring.

 

[john in KY]

Since you don't drive it much, run with a loose radiator cap (no pressure) and constantly check the coolant level. When low, just top it off with anti freeze. Adding too much "Stop-Leak" can cause all kinds of additional problems. 

[pyropyro]

I don't know about "loose radiator cap".  Have to think about that.

 

I was just wondering about the Factory Coolant Conditioner.  (stop leak)  Bear in mind, I was NOT considering adding another unit of the stuff to the radiator as is.  Rather, draining, refilling with new, and then adding the "conditioner".  The question in my mind, might doing it that way avoid a "cumlative" effect.  No more that the one, or possibly two if one didn't work, measures of the conditioner would be circulating thru the system.  I may have take the car on a 300 mile round trip soon.

 

I figure it would HAVE to be bad to add more to the system as is.  There is already two units in it now.  Another would make a total of three.  That can't be ok.

 

But to drain, then add one unit of the stuff?  I don't know.  I sure don't want to kill the radiator.

[mikaleda]

DONT DRIVE IT! I can't emphise this enough, continuing to drive it with the head gaskets leaking is going to cause more problems. And stop leak is going to gum up the coolant passages and make the head gasket job way harder to do.

[Ktmrider87]

Hi every one new to the forum and soob world just got a 2000 rs 2.5 and have been driving it love the car. but the other day I noticed white smoke coming from the engine bay and driver side wheel well, when I made it home got under the car and saw a drip and bubbles leaking onto what I think is exhaust mainfold.i have a pic and would like to know if it's the head gasket or something else any help would be very much appreciated

http://i.imgur.com/XV4WYZV.jpg

[Ktmrider87]

Ohh another thing have seen no significant coolent loss oil looks good not milky and car has never over heated, bought car with 179 k and drove it about 300 miles since I bought it until this parked it and driving truck didn't want to damage it of was serious issue

[lmdew]

Make sure it's not a water pump or hose leak.  If it's coming from the HG as long as you keep the fluids topped off you can drive it.  The external HG leaks of the 2000+ SOHC engines are not as bad as the internal 96-99 DOHC engines.

[idosubaru]

I don't know about "loose radiator cap".  Have to think about that.

 

I was just wondering about the Factory Coolant Conditioner.  (stop leak)  Bear in mind, I was NOT considering adding another unit of the stuff to the radiator as is.  Rather, draining, refilling with new, and then adding the "conditioner".  The question in my mind, might doing it that way avoid a "cumlative" effect.  No more that the one, or possibly two if one didn't work, measures of the conditioner would be circulating thru the system.  I may have take the car on a 300 mile round trip soon.

 

I figure it would HAVE to be bad to add more to the system as is.  There is already two units in it now.  Another would make a total of three.  That can't be ok.

 

But to drain, then add one unit of the stuff?  I don't know.  I sure don't want to kill the radiator.

 

You haven't told us enough to answer:

***** How badly is it leaking?  One drip per 10,000 miles or is it puking a gallon of coolant every 10 feet? 

 

if you already put two bottles in - i highly doubt repeating the procedure would help any more.  it's only $25 or less to try, so have at it if you want. 

[1 Lucky Texan]

as long as you keep it topped off enough that the radiator doesn't suck air in from a dry overflow bottle, you can let it drip coolant forever I think.

 

if it ever severely overheats, you could have compromised bearing surfaces too.

 

and I also 'guess' there could be a cumulative effect from the 'conditioner' use so, as said above, (assuming you keep-up with the loss) have at it.

 

not an ideal mode to run in, and it offends our sense of order to not repair it correctly - but most of us have been financially challenged in the past and had to do risky stuff.

[pyropyro]

You haven't told us enough to answer:

***** How badly is it leaking?  One drip per 10,000 miles or is it puking a gallon of coolant every 10 feet? 

 

if you already put two bottles in - i highly doubt repeating the procedure would help any more.  it's only $25 or less to try, so have at it if you want. 

When I got the car a year ago, it was a seep.  Both sides rear.  It was driven from Albany OR to Bend, which lowered the level in over flow maybe 3/4 of an inch.  I topped overflow off and every hundred or so miles had to add coolant to over flow.  After a couple hundred miles, I drained system, replentished with Subaroo coolant and added one unit of conditioner.  Slowed it down immediatly.  After maybe a couple hundred miles, on advice from forum members, added one more unit of conditioner.  The seeping stopped for several thousand miles.  Now it is seepeing again.

 

This car had never been overheated.  (It's been in the family forever, I know it's history)    I watch the temp guage like hawk, but don't know how fast these issues can escalate.  It's still only seeping, and only on one side now.  Thanks for the conversation guys.  I kind of have no choice but to try to keep it on the road over the winter, but this upcoming trip really worries me.  I'll carry plenty of water and coolant. 

[mikec03]

You have really answered your own question.  As long as you keep the coolant tank full and it's only seeping, you can drive it for thousands of miles before you need to do the HG repair.  Many people who have a coolant leak, don't check the level often enough, end up losing too much coolant, and overheat the engine.  It doesn't sound like that will happen to you so keep on driving it.

 

In the meantime, investigate/find a good and cheap indy shop, and you should have a ton of them in Oregon. 

[pyropyro]

You have really answered your own question.  As long as you keep the coolant tank full and it's only seeping, you can drive it for thousands of miles before you need to do the HG repair.  Many people who have a coolant leak, don't check the level often enough, end up losing too much coolant, and overheat the engine.  It doesn't sound like that will happen to you so keep on driving it.

 

In the meantime, investigate/find a good and cheap indy shop, and you should have a ton of them in Oregon. 

"find a good and cheap indy shop,--------(snip)"

 

I know your not joking, but really?  It's my thought that there is no such thing.  I fear I'll have to try to do it myself.  I'm no novice to "back yard' wrenching, I"m 60 and have always maintained my own vehicles, but I'm far from an expert.  It's moot right now, has to wait untill the coin is saved up for parts.  Need belt and front reseal too.

 

What I wish I could get my head around, or get some sense of, is how fast these "seeps" can, or are likely too----turn into gushers.  I don't even know if they do.  Turn, that is.  Mike03, your not the first person to have mentioned that many simply don't pay attention and thus overheat and kill the engine.  I do pay attention, but I simply don't really have an idea of how fast an EJ 25 (2003) headgasket seep is likely to escalate into catastrophic failure.  I'm getting the sense after years of study here at USMB that it tends to be a slow proscess.  I hope so.

[pyropyro]

I just thought of a question.  What about over filling the overflow tank, instead of just to the "full" line.  Would give one in this situation a wider margin?

[1 Lucky Texan]

I'd say you could easily keep more in the o'flow, just not near the top since you could push coolant out when it expands - maybe keep a 3-4" margin at the top?

 

pyro - what year and model car do you have?

Edited November 6, 2014 by 1 Lucky Texan

[pyropyro]

I'd say you could easily keep more in the o'flow, just not near the top since you could push coolant out when it expands - maybe keep a 3-4" margin at the top?

 

pyro - what year and model car do you have?

What a blunder for me to have not stated year and model.  Oooops.

 

2003 Outback.

[1 Lucky Texan]

What a blunder for me to have not stated year and model.  Oooops.

 

2003 Outback.

 

 

If it hasn't been done, that car needs timing belt/roller service. Yeah, it's early in mileage, but the book says 105 MONTHS if that comes first.

[mikec03]

 

What I wish I could get my head around, or get some sense of, is how fast these

"seeps" can, or are likely too----turn into gushers.  I don't even know

if they do. 

That's a good question.  It's unusual, judging by comments on forums, for the coolant to leak but not the oil for an 03.  On my 02, the oil started to seep and after 5K it left a pretty nice spot on the driveway, but it never amounted to much oil consumption.  I never got any coolant leaking.  I don't think that the oil or coolant would every gush out.  But it will start to drip so much that you can't stand it.

 

I always fill the coolant reservoir over the fill line.  The only thing that could be a problem is that some would "slosh" out if it's too high and you drive like a maniac.  Fill it a couple of inches above the full line, cold, and mark the level  with marker.

                    

                    

 

                    

                

                

                

                

                

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[idosubaru]

Yes - you got it!  the overflow tanks are rather benign - it does not matter how big or small they are nor any other function, they simply hold some reserve.  you could make the reservoir a 10 gallon tank if you wanted too....run your windshield washer lines to it and fill them up with coolant and just hit the windshield washer pump to refill. LOL!!!!

 

* Good news: these particular gaskets on this particular engine very very rarely "blow" in the traditional sense - like oil/coolant mixing, puking stuff everywhere, white smoke out the exhaust, etc.  Factory OEM HG's almost never do that.  So the chance of catastrophic break down is almost negligible if you pay attention to the car and are properly equipped/inspecting it.

 

The original OEM headgaskets typically can be driven easily many 10's of thousands of miles while seeping - just keep them full of coolant and you're golden for a long time.  particularly 00-04 models - they get worse at the slowest rate of them all.

 

If they are the original OEM headgaskets from the factory then you likely have a long time if you keep the level full.

 

Once the heads have been replaced they tend to have a wider margin of symptoms and rates of failure....but so far it sounds like you're fairly normal, maybe a bit faster than normal. 

But it doesn't sound like the HG's have ever been replaced before?

 

The radiator can't get low - that's the real issue.  Again the tank is benign, the radiator is the key.  When it starts loosing coolant fast enough that the radiator gets low while driving, then you'll need to manually fill the radiator as it won't draw in coolant from the reservoir actively. 

 

Normally it takes a long time to progress to that though, not just a couple thousand miles.

[idosubaru]

 

That's a good question.  It's unusual, judging by comments on forums, for the coolant to leak but not the oil for an 03.                                                                          

 

00-04 coolant leaks are common and they can leak oil too

05+ are more often oil leaks

but either can do both.

[pyropyro]

Oh, it leaks oil too.  But not so much that I have add between oil changes.  Not yet anyway.

 

Excellent discussion guys, I can't thank you all enough for the insight/experience/opinions.

 

And even those who exclaim "Don't drive it!!"  I appreciated the enthusiam.  I love these cars.  I I have two EA 82 parts cars sitting behind the house, donars that kept my lifted 1985 wagon on the road for over 10 years.  Sold it when I inherited this Outback.  Kind of wish I still had it.  I WILL get this Outback in top shape, I WILL!!

[Stelcom66]

I had an '02 Outback that had a slight headgasket leak at around 90k miles and was eligible for a free headgasket treatment at the Subaru dealership. A few years after having that done I'd occasionally smell anti freeze, and add some maybe every 2 or 3 months. It never overheated, traded it in with about 142k 3 years ago for an '02 Forester.The Forester may also have a headgasket leak, but very minor - much less severe than the Outback.

As mentioned - seems like driving with original headgaskets seeping a bit (early 2000 engines) is fine as long as you keep an eye on it.

I had a 1986 GL 4WD wagon, I think with a 1.8L and manual 4WD. That engine did leak oil. Wanted to go back to a manual transmission like the '86 was which is why I got the Forester.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Stelcom66