blue91legacy Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 I recently (two weeks ago) purchased a blue 1991 Subaru legacy 4 door with an automatic transmission and a 2.2 liter 4 cylinder motor. It has 4 wheel drive. The car turns over but will not run. I was told it was either the crankshaft or the camshaft sensor. I replaced the camshaft sensor with a used one from the junkyard from a car that supposedly ran but had a misfire. I have had no luck in getting any good advice just lots of guessing and that if I replace all these different parts eventually it should start. I don't have the money to just throw parts at this thing. I had it towed on a flatbed to a mechanic for $90 and hopefully he can find it since I don't have the means to diagnose it myself. I just bought the car thinking the price was right and these cars are supposed to be reliable so I figured if I got it running I could drive it this winter. I also can't seem to figure out how to get the wires of the crankshaft sensor to get free since they run under the intake manifold and replacing the sensor and running it the same way as the old one is currently run seems impossible. Both the crankshaft and the camshaft sensors are able to be removed and neither is corroded in. The crankshaft sensor was completely covered in black oil, some stuck on, some still runny. I wonder what caused this and if this is what made the sensor fail. I wiped off both sensors completely. the camshaft sensor only had some stuff on the very end but nothing major. The car has 206,000 miles on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted November 7, 2014 Share Posted November 7, 2014 Check the Computer. There are two single plug connectors under the drivers kick panel. Green Diagonstic Black ECU Codes, turn on the key and count the flashes. Check for Spark, if you have spark, the computer is getting the correct signals Put a little gas in the intake, does it start and run, if so you have a fuel problem Pull the side Timing Belt Covers and check to see if you are correctly timed. I'd do it in that order and you should have a good idea what the problem is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 any EJ22 that will crank but not start, I would check the timing belt first thing. have seen many sold cheaply because they suddenly wont start - cause: broken timing belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue91legacy Posted November 8, 2014 Author Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) I think the timing belts ok. if it turns out that the timing belt is broken I'll likely try and sell it as is since I can't afford to pay the outrageous amount shops want to replace a timing belt. they all want to replace the timing belt and the water pump and the serpentine belt and they want close to a grand to do it. I'll find another car before paying that. However....the old owner claims to have had the timing cover off and says the belt is not broken. I took the car to the mechanics shop since I have no way of looking it over indoors nor the knowledge of subarus or the tools needed. I have no way of knowing if I'm correctly timed just by removing a cover and was told there is no computer code hookup because my car is too old, a 1991. the old owner checked the cars computer and also changed it. To be honest my biggest fear and question is...What is causing all that oil to have built up all over the crankshaft sensor so as to completely coat it in heavy oil? Edited November 8, 2014 by blue91legacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Timing belt is a piece of cake on a 91 legacy. Takes about 2 hours for a beginner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue91legacy Posted November 8, 2014 Author Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) If I had a heated indoor place I think I'd attempt it just for peace of mind due to the cars mileage. if the timing belt isn't yet broke perhaps it'll hold out until the warm weather returns next summer. it's cold here already, temps are 30-40 degrees and its raining every day. Surely someone out there knows why the crankshaft sensor is coated in oil. What causes this problem? Is it expensive to fix? Edited November 8, 2014 by blue91legacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthguy Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Older Subaru engines can leak oil from many places. The seals in a 91 have had many years to dry out and get brittle...and leak. The oil pressure sensor could be leaking, the crank seal could be bad, oil filler tube o-ring, etc. You really can't tell easily until you do some cleaning with paper towels and some engine cleaner so you can get to the point where you can try and figure out the source of the leak. For timing, just because the belt isn't broken doesn't mean the timing is OK. A bad timing belt tensioner can allow the belt to slip a tooth or two and that can be enough to throw the timing off. Your car does not have the OBDII code hookup, but that does not mean you can't read codes. You just need to get the codes to flash via a light on the dash so you can could how many times and determine the code that way (yours is OBDI, search for it, and read up more on what lmdew described above). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue91legacy Posted November 8, 2014 Author Share Posted November 8, 2014 I guess this car may prove to be a bit more than I can handle. I don't have the tools or knowledge or the heated indoor space to tear into the items such as timing belt replacement and the time it takes to tinker just to get something to act up and make the dash flash then count the flashes and such. it sounds like a million things could be the problem with the oil coated crank sensor and just to have the engine cleaned and the problem found will be expensive. then to have the gasket or such replaced will likely be pricey. I know just the crankshaft sensor part alone is $200 plus the $70 labor just for that one item. I'm beginning to wonder if I shouldn't just sell this car. I know it has a torn cv boot and it sounds like to get the thing running will cost more than what I can buy a running car for. I guess I'll wait and see what the mechanic says. But if its as pricey as what it sounds like it will be, I'm selling this thing. Good thing the body is in good shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 You're worrying too much. A 91 legacy is one of the most reliable cars put together. If the mechanic comes back and says the motor is blown - sell the car. If he quotes you $200. for the sensor, politely decline and send me a message and I'll mail you one of the half dozen or so spares in my garage at cost of shipping. If it's a fuel pump, timing belt or igniter etc. you're looking at simple fixes under $50. To gain more info, check for flashes with the key (simple search will show how. It takes no work.) If you're unsure about anything. Just ask on here. Lots of good folks are very willing to help/ I guess I don't understand why you would buy a non running car if you're willing to throw in the towel so easily when a no-start is generally a cheap and simple fix. No need for heated garages. I've done timing belts and the like in the snow, mud, dark and 2 Denny's parking lots. (Both fun stories) These cars are easy to work on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixstar Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Check the Computer. There are two single plug connectors under the drivers kick panel. Green Diagonstic Black ECU Codes, turn on the key and count the flashes. Check for Spark, if you have spark, the computer is getting the correct signals Put a little gas in the intake, does it start and run, if so you have a fuel problem Pull the side Timing Belt Covers and check to see if you are correctly timed. I'd do it in that order and you should have a good idea what the problem is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixstar Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Keep it simple. Two things to always check on these cars or any car is fuel and spark. Cycle the key (key on engine off position) you should hear the fuel pump cycle. If u don't hear the pump pull the rear seat out to access fuel pump on pass. side and check for power with a test light. No power: check fuses. Power: bad pump. To check for spark use a spark tester or an old spark plug. Pull a spark plug wire off of any plug, plug in your spark tester or spark plug and ground the tester or plug to the block on an accessible bolt anywhere on the engine. Have a friend crank the engine while u watch to see if there is any spark. If u have spark and fuel then u can diagnose further but until then stick to the basics first. No need for a mechanic u got plenty here to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 directions for pulling codes for an OBDI car: http://legacycentral.org/library/literature/codes.htm Complete timing belt kits for this car are cheap (under $200) and include: belt, all idler pulleys, water pump, oil seals, and there are kits that can be had that also include the tensioner if that is needed as well. about 80% of the cost in having a shop do the job is labor. While it isnt "hard" to do, it can be a bit time consuming for a 1st timer - even then, a few hours of time spent getting to know your car is well worth it. a basic metric socket set - from minimum of 10mm to at least 22mm, a couple of screwdrivers (one flat, one philips), a decent pliers, and some way of compressing the tensioner (a large C-clamp will work) is all that is really needed to do the job. Biggest thing to working outdoors is to be out of the wind - I am only a couple of hours west of you (about 45 mins west of Wausau), been pretty chilly here, too, but stay out of the wind and it isnt that bad. I, too, have done the work out in the cold & snow, dead of winter - not fun, but still completely doable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 I guess this car may prove to be a bit more than I can handle. I don't have the tools or knowledge or the heated indoor space to tear into the items such as timing belt replacement and the time it takes to tinker just to get something to act up and make the dash flash then count the flashes and such. it sounds like a million things could be the problem with the oil coated crank sensor and just to have the engine cleaned and the problem found will be expensive. then to have the gasket or such replaced will likely be pricey. I know just the crankshaft sensor part alone is $200 plus the $70 labor just for that one item. I'm beginning to wonder if I shouldn't just sell this car. I know it has a torn cv boot and it sounds like to get the thing running will cost more than what I can buy a running car for. I guess I'll wait and see what the mechanic says. But if its as pricey as what it sounds like it will be, I'm selling this thing. Good thing the body is in good shape. You are psych-ing yourself out over it. I am guessing you don't know much about cars in general? If so...you are in luck....these cars are SIMPLE.......easy as cake..... Buying something else will be throwing away what you've already spent....and likely will be another can of worms..... A good subaru with a few things done to fix it up is WAAAY better than some old piece of crap GM or Honda that runs.......cause when those break..which they will....you will be screwed no way to fix them cheaply. Forget about the crank sensor.....that's almost never the problem with subarus. The oil on it doens't matter.....except that it is probably coming from the oil light switch..(small switch, under Alternator) it's 15 bucks and a few minutes to replace. Let me ask first....Does the Check Engine light come on when you turn the key "ON" before starting? if it doesn't......check the green Slow Blow Fuse (SBF-2) in the underhood fuse box.....the one on the right will be blown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue91legacy Posted November 8, 2014 Author Share Posted November 8, 2014 (edited) Thanks. i'll check that fuse once I get the car back from the mechanic, as stated earlier, it's not at my house now. I had it towed to the mechanic last week Thursday. I do know a decent amount about cars, but you must remember I've never owned a Subaru and know nothing about their habits, problems and typical issues. Every car has its own things that typically go wrong and things to look for. I joined this site because I knew there would be people who know the car and what to look for. So far I've had a lot of responses and I am quite gratefull for all the help. I'm not going to lie though. I am not comfortable enough to just tear into the job of replacing a timing belt alone without any help. I actually like the car and don't want to tackle the job without some sort of help. At least I now know there are kits and parts available for the timing belt as kits. I am a bit confused too. I thought the crank sensor was located just under the alternator. That is the sensor I removed and found all the oil on. I also removed the sensor on the driver side of the engine block assuming this was the camshaft sensor. I googled the location for each sensor for my year legacy and it showed the location and even the size wrench needed. Now hearing the oil light switch is under the alternator I am confused. It is nice to hear that Subaru legacys are user friendly cars. I'll likely keep it now. Even if I can't get it going in time to use by this winter. Edited November 8, 2014 by blue91legacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted November 8, 2014 Share Posted November 8, 2014 Both the crank sensor and the Oil light switch are below the alternator. The crank sensor is more on the front, dead center. The oil switch is slightly to the passenger side, about an inch or 2 back from the front, with a single spade sticking out with a wire clipped to it. They go bad and seep oil from the oil gallery......which is bad since that oil is supposed to be going to the mains/rods/valves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue91legacy Posted November 8, 2014 Author Share Posted November 8, 2014 Thanks. I appreciate the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 as they say, a picture speaks a thousand words... not the best quality of picture, but I think it will help you figure out where things are...the oil pressure switch sits kind of in between the alternator and the power steering pump, back just a little from the front edge of the block, has a single wire hooked to it, very basic spade connection. the oil pressure switch is a very common leak point, and they can really pump out the oil making a big mess. the good news is they are cheap (under $10 at Advance Auto) and very easy to replace. and while I didnt mark it, yes, cam sensor is on the drivers side. If you have any experience at all working on cars, you will find a Subaru to be ridiculously easy to work on - most things are very easy to get to, you dont need to be a contortionist to access a part, nor do you need to remove half a motor to gain access to a part. it is all right there in plain view, it is simply a matter of learning where things are. you didnt mention how many miles are on the car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue91legacy Posted November 9, 2014 Author Share Posted November 9, 2014 (edited) I love how helpful everyone on this site has been. I was convinced I was going to sell the car before joining this site. Now I'm likely going to keep it and try my luck seeing if I can get it running or not. As for the miles on the car....well....it has really high miles on it. 206,000 miles. The car is medium blue in color with blue interior. It is a 4 door, not a wagon. I bought it because of the price and because I owned a Subaru many years ago and it just wouldn't die..a 1986 or 88 Subaru Xt maunual transmission car. Edited November 9, 2014 by blue91legacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 As for the miles on the car....well....it has really high miles on it. 206,000 miles. There's at least another 50k miles left on her......maybe another 100k If you treat her right. Rust will kill it before the engine will die where you are at. I lived in Kenosha WI for several years.......and your area is even worse for salt/rust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 There is still another 100,000 mi left in it easily. Suppose the timing belt has lost some teeth and is out of time. This si a relatively simple repair fro anyone familiar with subarus. One could get away with installing salvage parts to keep it going. There is a strong enough subaru enthusiast presence in wisconsin. Perhaps find the local groups on facebook. Otherwise, you found the right forum with the best help you can get. I am over here in milwaukee if there would be the chance for me to lend my hand at it. This work can be accomplished in the driveway without removing the radiator. Search the youtube for "art of subaru maintenance vol. 2" to see examples of the work involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 i purchased my 95 Legacy wagon with 206,000 on it a bit more than a year ago, and it just keeps going and going. these cars have been known to hit 350 to 400K with good care. I plan on at least 300K on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue91legacy Posted November 10, 2014 Author Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) I want to get the car running. Once I get it back from the mechanic and hear what and if he found I'll begin planning things. I know the cv boot is tore and my mechanic already thinks the car is only worth three hundred dollars no matter how much money I invest in it and so I don't expect much from him other than finding out why it doesn't start and then a whole lot of you need to replace this, this, this, this, this and this and a lot of expensive quotes. I want to keep the car but I need to see what its going to cost to get it running and road worthy. If the front end repair (cv joints, etc.) and engine repair costs get too high I'll try and find someone who is willing to work on it with me. If I can't find someone to help me work on this thing then it will likely just sit. I look forward to hearing back from the mechanic sometime this week and look forward to trailering it back home sometime in the near future. If the mechanic is of little help I will simply save up and begin with the timing belt, timing belt tensioner and water pump. from there I'll do the oil switch, crankshaft sensor, spark plugs and then see what happens. I'll be buying a battery from the junkyard soon and hope to find a complete negative battery cable in good condition somewhere. There are no good negative battery cables in the junkyards around me, I looked. I want to replace the entire negative cable as mine is not in good shape due to someone else screwing with it trying to "fix it" the half rump roast way. The end of the cable never stays tight on the battery. I can get it to stay on and the engine will crank over but I need something in good shape if I'm going to drive it someday. Edited November 10, 2014 by blue91legacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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