Loyale waggon fuel pump? bad gas?

[kablamabam]

I have a 92 loyale wagon that has been having a problem I can't figure out. It's intermittently hard to start as in it will turn over and catch but will die immediately, won't even get up to 500 rpms. After 2 or 3 sessions of cranking it an pumping the gas it fires up. I've been told since it's fuel injected pumping the gas is pointless but, hey, it seems to help... This happens every 5th time or so and always on the first start of the day.

 

When it is running it will lurch/hesitate. I've heard people use both words to describe it. To me It feels like it is about to run out of gas for just a few seconds. I had it at a shop and he tested the fuel pressure which was low so the fuel pump was replaced. It did run MUCH better after the fuel pump fix but it still has the same symptoms, just not as pronounced. 

 

Took it back to the same shop he went over everything and said it seems fine. Suggested it was possibly bad gas and recommended I use high octane chevron on my next fill to see if there is a difference. I do use 92 octane gasoline but not necessarily from Chevron and the gas in the tank right now is from Arco.

 

Other things that may or may not be relevant:

 

-It's had timing belt/tensioner/etc... re done recently.

-Head gasket and other various seals replaced.

-New plugs and wires.

-Had a heck of a time diagnosing and erratic idling issue a while back which resulted in bypassing some wires to the IAC. I was told they were grounding against the engine block.

 

Other than regular stuff like CV joints, clutch, breaks, tires and the like that's about all I can think of.

 

Anybody have some thoughts/suggestions?

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

... It's intermittently hard to start as in it will turn over and catch but will die immediately, won't even get up to 500 rpms. After 2 or 3 sessions of cranking it an pumping the gas it fires up ... Had a heck of a time diagnosing and erratic idling issue a while back which resulted in bypassing some wires to the IAC. I was told they were grounding against the engine block...

 

Sounds like a Vacuum Leak on the idle air control (IAC) valve, but it could be done by other things; however, as you describe the past problem with the IAC, I would start by checking it. Also it could be a Vacuum leak around the intake injector... worth check and give us feedback.

 

Kind Regards.

[kerandt]

Was the fuel filter changed with the pump? What about "trouble codes"? Check engine light on or off?

[Dee2]

Was the fuel filter changed with the pump? What about "trouble codes"? Check engine light on or off?

 

+1

[DaveT]

Nothing specific,  but a few things I've dealt with that may be related.

 

Nothing to loose replacing the filter.

 

Check for water in the fuel line.

 

I had an idle solenoid fail once.  The engine would not idle.  I had to hold the gas pedal down slightly to keep the car running until I got home.

 

My 87 has an intermittent glitch that occasionally alters the idle speed, raising it occasionally.  Have not been able to find the cause yet, as it is too infrequent.  Once in a while, every one of my GLs / Loyales has glitched on start up - fired and died.  Then cranking and cranking but no fire.  Holding the gas full down while cranking clears the problem.

 

Instead of pumping, try holding the gas part way down, and see what happens.  Also try fully down.

 

I use only 87 octane gas now.   Back when they put MTBE in the gas, I had to use 93 to reduce pinging.  As soon as they switched to ethanol, that went away.  I also ran very stale gas for a while, and was surprised that it had little effect, until I got to the extremely stale gas.  That I had to mix 50 / 50 with fresh.  During this experiment is when I discovered the effect of water in the fuel.  Loose power, run crummy.

Edited November 15, 2014 by DaveT

[kablamabam]

Thanks for the suggestions. I talked with my mechanic and he said my fuel filter was changed with the pump. He also told me he didn't think there were any vacuum leaks but if I want him to check that out I could take it by.

 

He said when he was driving it he felt my clutch slip and said it would be time to change that soon. It has only been replaced once in 200+ thousand miles so I figure that's reasonable. He said he did tighten the clutch and indeed I can feel it engage lower on the pedal now. He asked that I push and release the clutch a little while cruising to see if it causes the jerking.

 

I've felt clutch slip before and it didn't cause this. More like engine revving w/o acceleration going up a hill. Can a clutch going out cause this type of jerking while cruising? I've never had any problems with this mechanic before but I am beginning to wonder if he's stringing me along or something...

 

Oh yea, check engine light is not on...

[Dee2]

"Took it back to the same shop he went over everything and said it seems fine." 

 

Seems like the mechanic is not having starting problems you describe.  I concur with the mechanic, change gas stations and see if things improve.  I've had bad fuel from stations before and changing fuel sources made a huge difference.  I only buy from the local shell or chevron now.

[kablamabam]

Well I finally burned through that full tank of Arco gas the problem seemed to go away (knock on wood). It is funny because when it got down to the level that it was before I filled it I noticed a marked improvement and jokingly speculated that "good" gas must float on top of "bad" gas. Put 20 bucks worth of Chevron Supreme and she is running like she used to.

 

A co-worker suggested I put some type of additive to clean the injectors any thoughts on that?

 

Really appreciate the feedback both on this topic and all the others I lurked in before signing up myself. It was this board that I learned that the intermittent ticking on my first subaru was lifter noise and the suggested fix of oil pump seal worked like a charm. I just wish I had the tools and knowledge to do the work myself. Anyway I really appreciate that this place exists and that you guys chatter in a searchable forum about all things Subaru! Keep it up!

[Dee2]

Glad you found your problem and it is resolved.  I don't think you need to worry about the injectors.  Some additive won't hurt but I found once the bad fuel was gone, my car ran  fine.