Subaru Outback Legacy overheating issue

[illwill420]

Okay this post may be sorta long so bear with me. I recently purchased a used 97 Subie Legacy Outback from a mechanic. As it was owned and maintained by this mechanic since he bought it new, I figured everything would be in good operating condition...and for the most part it was. I drove this car for 3 months no issues then a few weeks ago I started noticing an overheating problem. The gauge would go from the normal reading to all the way past the H mark. The car showed no signs of overheating, no steam, odd engine noises,etc. The coolant was low so I filled it up and would truck right along for another 2 weeks until the problem presented itself again.

 

Last week it got to the point the car shut itself off (is this some sort of safety feature??). I let the car sit for about 45minutes and the temp went back down and the car started right up and I made my way home.

 

I first thought it was a pinhole leak in the radiator but after extensive inspection while the car was running hot I saw no leaks anywhere. I looked on the forums here and many suggested it may be the radiator cap. I replaced that yesterday, topped off the system and thought the problem to be solved. Since then an even odder problem has started. The car still overheats but now the heater just blows out cold air. No really, the heat will work great until it begins to overheat then the vents only blow out cold air. Just this morning I was able to make it from my house into town (appx. 17 miles) before the issue reared its ugly head. Still, aside from the gauge showing extremely hot, there are no signs of overheating. No steam or smoke from engine, car still runs very smooth, and it doesnt have any of the odd noises associated with an overheated car.

 

At this point I'm quite baffled. I've checked everything. I know for a fact from the burping process that coolant is definitely cycling through the system. I also know that this could be signs of a blown HG but there are also no signs of that either. No oil in coolant, no thick white smoke coming from exhaust...nada....and again the car runs smoothly when driving and fine when idling.

 

I'd greatly appreciate any input on this as I won't have the means to take it to a mechanic until Janurary and this vehicle needs to get me back and forth to school and work until then.

 

Thanks in advance.

[1 Lucky Texan]

a mechanic SHOULD know to only use an OEM style t'stat on a Subaru, but it's only 2 bolts to confirm.

 

[Rooster2]

Sorry to say, but you have the classic symptoms of a blown head gasket. Please don't drive when it over heats. My wife did that to ruin a motor.

 

Lots written on this subject..........Read all about it in the archives when you search "head gaskets" on this forum. it is the most prevalent problem on Subies 96-99 models.

 

If you drive again, and it prolly spikes the temp gauge in a hurry, look in the radiator overflow catch container. If you see bubbles rising to the top of the container, then you know for certain that it is bad head gaskets.

[1 Lucky Texan]

it is a little like HGs, (soobs rarely blow the white smoke out the tailpipe. usually, there will be bubbles in the rad or o'flow.) but often that will blow a huge amount of coolant into the overflow.

 

hope it isn't of course.

Edited November 17, 2014 by 1 Lucky Texan

[TKFlight]

Check for bubbles in the overflow. I do agree HG's are really prevalent in the 96-99 years, but its an issue with just about all years also. If no bubbles in overflow or rad, check to see if the thermostat is an OE one. If it is still doing it maybe try burping the system again? I wouldn't drive it until you get the overheating problem solved, you will easily warp the aluminum heads/block if you keep driving.

[idosubaru]

headgasket

 

do you realize that overheating the engine that much is devastating to the internal bearings and oil supply?

if you're running it that much all the way into the hot and until the car shuts off - you're seriously destroying the engine.  it might not even be worth replacing at this point.

 

install a used 1995 EJ22 from an automatic legacy/impreza and motor on for another 100,000 miles without issue.

then sell the EJ25 for a couple hundred dollars

[illwill420]

Thanks for the quick responses guys. I really am hoping its not the HG, especially since I just bought this car in August. Yes yes I know the phrase caveat emptor applies here but I really diden't think I needed a mechanic to check it out considering I was buying it from one! Lesson learned. This may have actually been an issue when I bought it and the guy "neglected" to mention it.

 

I'm planning on doing the old flush and fill tonight to see if that changes anything. I read on quite a few forums that sometimes does the trick and since it's relatively cheap I figure it certainly can't hurt anything. I do however find it odd that after 3 months of driving with absolutely no problems that this issue would suddenly show up.

 

I'll ley yall know how it works out.

[mikaleda]

Head gasket, positive. When my headgasket went out, my car ran so good and didn't smoke at all I swore up and down it had to be something eles. Do yourself a favor and buy a hydrocarbon test kit, It will test the coolant and tell proof positive if its a head gasket or not, its like $40 its totaltly worth the money

 

Believe me in speaking from experience, I replaced the entire cooling system in my car before I figured it out.

Edited November 17, 2014 by mikaleda

[illwill420]

Okay...and I'm still hoping it's something else but the prognosis is....grim.

 

So what do yall think about the head gasket sealant products out there? Do they work as a temporary fix? I'll only really need to be using the car for about 2 more weeks, after that I just have work but that's close to home and I have a moped I can use to get there until I have the money to get a new head gasket.

[mikaleda]

Doubt that a liquid head gasket would work the way these gaskets blow. Sodium silicate might seal it for a little while and might not be too bad on the cooling system

 

Caution! Look up how to use sodium silicate to seal a leak in your cooling system, its a prosses you can't just add it in

 

Here's some info

http://catalog.miniscience.com/Catalog/Sodium_Silicate/Default.html

Edited November 18, 2014 by mikaleda

[1 Lucky Texan]

you must confirm that a soob-style t'stat is in the car.

 

I have yet to read of an additive that will fix typical soob HG failures and it makes sense why there never will be one.

[Rooster2]

All additives for sale to fix a bad head gasket will not work in a Subie. When a Subaru head gasket goes bad, exhaust gas enters the cooling system causing over heating. The heat and pressure from exhaust gas cannot be held back by any additive.

 

When my 99 Outback blew a head gasket, the motor was running just fine. However, i was aware of the grim possibility of the head gaskets going bad. Once I saw bubbles in the over flow, I new for sure it was the head gaskets. Changing t-stat, rad cap, or any amount of coolant burping wasn't going to fix my car. I just bit the bullet, and had the head gaskets replaced, and stopped whining to myself about "why me." I just got over it, paid the repair bill, and motor on. That has been 25K miles ago, and at 218K miles on the odo, my 2.5 soldiers on.

[illwill420]

Okay, and I know I am still clinging on to the hope that it's not an HG issue, but what about the heat going out once it starts creeping up past the normal operating temp?

 

Furthermore, I drove it yesterday (gingerly I might add) and this morning before I was leaving for class I decided to top off the radiator and it only took a quart of 50/50 (I have a 2 quart plastic container I mix the coolant in, this is how I know the exact amount, mixed 2 and only ended up using 1), so if I am loosing coolant it is not much at all considering I made the 17 mile drive to school and back home yesterday (again, very gingerly...once it crept up to 3/4 I stopped immediately and let it cool down before limping the rest of the way).

 

I plan on yanking out the thermostat this afternoon and checking it as that is the only thing I have yet to check.

 

But yeah this is really starting to look like a bad gasket unfortunately....but I remain hopeful it's something, well a little cheaper.

 

As my old man used to say, hope in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up first,lol.

[TKFlight]

 

 Furthermore, I drove it yesterday (gingerly I might add) and this

morning before I was leaving for class I decided to top off the radiator

and it only took a quart of 50/50

 

You shouldn't be losing a quart of anti-freeze from driving it gingierly the day before, you shouldn't be losing it at all. The occasional topping it off is normal, but needing a quart just from driving it gingerly the day before isn't normal. The anti-freeze is going somewhere, and it sounds like HG's. These late 96-99 subarus are notorious for head gaskets, more so than other generations, I've seen it twice already in my short life so far.

Edited November 19, 2014 by TKFlight

[1 Lucky Texan]

is fluid being pushed into the overflow? any drips on the ground?

 

if not, you need to look at oil and maybe auto trans fluid levels to see if they're increasing. If not, coolant is going out the tailpipe.

[idosubaru]

 

Okay, and I know I am still clinging on to the hope that it's not an HG issue, but what about the heat going out once it starts creeping up past the normal operating temp?

.

 

That points to headgasket confirmation. That is a classic EJ25 DOHC head gasket indicator. You can search the many other threads/people with the same symptoms.

 

These engines routinely do what yours is doing, folks that have done lots of EJ25's are thinking "yep, just like the rest of them, seen that 100 times":

1.  initially they go long periods of time between overheats when they first start - very common.  frequency increases over time as the breech gets worse.

2.  not long after starting to run hot you loose cabin heat - almost all of them do that, just most people don't notice because the heat isn't on or they shut the car off quickly

[idosubaru]

the sealants in a bottle are magic crap shoots, not really worth it.  better off finding a way to fix the car properly or not use it.

 

remove the tstat...though you need the outer ring of it to hold the tstat gasket in place.  and you can get a LEVR radiator cap to bleed off the exhaust gases in the coolant.  that will keep you going depending how bad it is.  you may even be able to leave the LEVR cap valve open so the exhaust gas can push into the overflow tank.

 

if you open it while hot do it veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrry  slowly as the hot gases will explode into the overflow tank and blow the top off if you open it quickly.

 

but if you do it slowly you're then able to open the system while hot, add coolant and start driving again - that would at least render the vehicle useable.

 

another forum member used brake fluid instead of antifreeze, he claimed it had better properties and i think he drove it for the better part of a year.  not saying i recommend it....but he did and i'd probably try that long shot cracksmoking idea before the magic bottles of harry potter juice.

[idosubaru]

i also already mentioned a cheaper, more reliable, and better repair:  install an EJ22 engine instead.  1995 automatic from legacy or impreza swaps right in, super easy. 

if you get the exhaust manifold too - a 1996-1998 with EGR will also work.

 

$400 EJ22 - sell the EJ25 for $400 and the engine is free....you can find EJ22's for cheaper than that as well.

 

pay $350 - $500 to install and it's cheaper than a headgasket job, cheaper to maintain, more reliable...win-win situation particularly for someone who can't afford to fix their car right now.

[mikaleda]

i also already mentioned a cheaper, more reliable, and better repair: install an EJ22 engine instead. 1995 automatic from legacy or impreza swaps right in, super easy.

if you get the exhaust manifold too - a 1996-1998 with EGR will also work.

 

$400 EJ22 - sell the EJ25 for $400 and the engine is free....you can find EJ22's for cheaper than that as well.

 

pay $350 - $500 to install and it's cheaper than a headgasket job, cheaper to maintain, more reliable...win-win situation particularly for someone who can't afford to fix their car right now.

+1, I found this out when I had the head gasket blow out on my Subaru

[illwill420]

Okay guys. For you naysayers out there who told me to flat out avoid the HG sealant products out there because they simply will not work with Subies, allow my testament to mitigate your future responses to those in the same situation and not completely write off a solution that may indeed work.

 

I bought Bars Leaks Head Gasket Seal (the one with 17 separate steps in the directions, not the 'pour n' go'), granted doing all the steps PROPERLY took well over 4 hours but, she is not overheating anyore. Took her from home to school and back today (17 mile drive both ways) with little sign of overheating...even on the highway running her at 65MPH.

 

Now I understand this is only a band-aid but it definitely gets me through the end of the semster until I can afford replacement of the HG by a proper mechanic.

 

Just wanted to post my results so when others come across similar issues they can give it a shot because it DOES work. Not as a permanent fix, but if you need your baby to get you through until you can afford to fix it, try it. At worst you are out 12 dollars and a few hours of your day.

[mikaleda]

Or the worst is you have a clogged heater core and out $300 to get it replaced