AnotherGL10guy Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Hello again. Fixed the last problem(thank you).....now this! its my girlfriends car I built for her since she has always wanted one and UNTIL I Can afford an EJ22 please dont tell me to swap, I know, I know...... This just started happening, ran great and still does but when its cold the engine seems to be making a very slight Knocking noise, maybe a lifter, maybe timing is off? heres the specs... wrx intercooler 2 row Rad with dual electric fans, new coolant and thermo. 10psi big header and exhaust straight through, no CAT. 225-70-14 tires and 4 inch lift. (never see's much off-road) 5-30 Royal Purple Oil deleted ALL smog stuff Knock Sensor is GONE but I have never heard it ping or knock at all...problem? most everything else is stock except all the re arranged Vacume and EGR blocked off. She drives it like a Grandma, shifts at about 3500 rpm, I keep telling her to shift higher like 4000 but, we will get there! the engine and car have very low miles, the engine is super sound and runs so very quiet, no ticking of any kind other than noise from Injectors! Until now, NOW THIS... This started after a trip to the hills and a long day of running non stop and about 150 miles. she never got hot once and ran fine. next day I go out to start it (very cold out) and its a slight knocking sound when we get on it only, not noticed at idle. This is the 4th day, I only notice it when its first start then it dies off. Engine has plenty of power and runs fine. I am just worried is all! Timing is set at about 15*btdc and was set at 20 before this. Could the change be why? maybe I screwed something up? its hard to explain but it also struggles when cranking it to start, after it rotates a few times, almost like pre-ignition, like "jiga-jiga-jiga-jiga-jiga UUUURG- jiga jiga- VAroooom", and idles great after that! Like a car Hicup when cranking it over to start it. no back fire or anything, just a hard spot. I think its timing related, it only does it sometimes. so sorry for the long azz story. Whats your take? Got any clues? am I wrecking her moooter as we drive it? whats the timing for an EA82 turbo with a few mods and 10psi boost? Should I have the timing MORE or less Numerical BTDC? And is Advancing the timing mean going DOWN or UP Numerically in the BTDC range? Woooot should I do to the moooter? thanks so much again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john in KY Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I once put 100k miles on a 90 turbo wagon running 12 pounds of boost and never had a problem. Did use plugs one step cooler than stock and retarded the timing 2 degrees. Just from memory thinking stock timing is around 22 BTDC but could be wrong. 15 BTDC seems on the retarded side to me. Don't know what affect not having a knock sensor will have but don't think it does much of anything at idle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pooparu Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Ditch that engine as soon as you can, and replace it with an ej22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee2 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I've always heard 5-30 is a little thin and shouldn't be used for extended runs. Maybe a little heavier oil is called for here. Perhaps 10-w30 or even 10-w40 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beladona_13 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Factory timing spec is 8* BTDC. 15 degrees is way advanced for base timing. Still running the vacuumdizzy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Is it the HLA's ticking? that's benign. never really heard them tick only at higher RPM's....but maybe? engine history? lower end bearings are more likely if the thing was previously overheated/head gaskets replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Factory timing spec is 8* BTDC. 15 degrees is way advanced for base timing. Still running the vacuumdizzy? That's for a carbed engine. This is MPFI so depending on the year the spec is either 25(flapper MAF, VAC disty w/knock box) or 20 degrees(hotwire MAF, Optical disty) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherGL10guy Posted November 22, 2014 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 That's for a carbed engine. This is MPFI so depending on the year the spec is either 25(flapper MAF, VAC disty w/knock box) or 20 degrees(hotwire MAF, Optical disty) yes this is correct. 25 is stock recommended timing on this turbo MPFI flapper engine. I was wondering if any of you might know where I should run my timing for the mods I have. ALSO I run 92 octane in it ALWAYS. right now its at 15 BTDC. seems to have the best power all the way through at this setting. Maybe i should run lower Octane gas? to retard the timing thats towards the 0 mark or?? Yes i still run vacume advance. The Engine has been romped by the PO and was bought with both head gaskets SHOT. I inspected and re-built the entire engine but main bearings. does not burn a drop of oil! thanks so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherGL10guy Posted November 22, 2014 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 Ditch that engine as soon as you can, and replace it with an ej22. you either dont read b4 you post, or cant read, or dont care. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pooparu Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 All of the above. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibreakstuff Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) Definitely don't run lower octane gas, you are asking for detonation there. If you connect a knock sensor back up, it should pull timing if a actual knock is detected. Can you take a video or sound recording of it? Rod knock is pretty rare on these motors. My guess is HLA tick tho, 5w30 is probably too thin. I would try 5w40 or 10w40 if I lived in your region (maybe even 0w40 for winter).Amsoil 15w50 dominator is my new favorite ea82t oil, but I live in a much warmer climate. Edited November 22, 2014 by Ibreakstuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 you either dont read b4 you post, or cant read, or dont care. LOL Did you not notice pooparu's avatar picture? It's obviously the latter. He just doesn't G.A.F. lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherGL10guy Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 All of the above. haha Yes I know. I was just making fun, Bubs is my FAV Character ever!! Definitely don't run lower octane gas, you are asking for detonation there. If you connect a knock sensor back up, it should pull timing if a actual knock is detected. Can you take a video or sound recording of it? Rod knock is pretty rare on these motors. My guess is HLA tick tho, 5w30 is probably too thin. I would try 5w40 or 10w40 if I lived in your region (maybe even 0w40 for winter). Amsoil 15w50 dominator is my new favorite ea82t oil, but I live in a much warmer climate. heres a good point. I drove down to Seattle for work and onmy way home i filled up with mid grade (89oc) from some crap hole station DT, while driving home I got to about south Everett and it started popping so bad I thought I was going to break down, it would come and go. If I revved it waaay up and pegged it it would clear up sometimes then 5 minutes later happen again. I blew my headlights revving it up to 6k, found out my alt. was over blasting everything.... Also my fuel tank purge was not working. threw some 92 oc fuel in, replaced alt. and opened up the purge and it was OK after that. point being, I always ran 87 oc b4 this trip, never really thought about the turbo needing hi-octane ratings. I advanced the timing to aboutn 25 BTDC, ran 92 for the last 2 months and it has been fine, till this little trip to the hills and I started hearing this noise. Oh and the oil is really expensive oil so maybe Ill just add some Lucas white bottle to thicken it up?? Ill try and get a vid for ya. thanks for the input!! Did you not notice pooparu's avatar picture? It's obviously the latter. He just doesn't G.A.F. lol yes i did thats why I posted that comment LOL. all in fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherGL10guy Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) SORRY for the bad quality, phone is all i had. you can really hear it towards the last 1/3 or so of the vid when I go back down close and hit the throttle a few times. THE CAR SOUNDS LIKE CRAP IN THE VID BECAUSE THE BELTS MAYBE, BUT IN PERSON ITS ACTUALLY VERY SOUND BESIDES THIS COLD ONLY ISSUE. SOUNDS LIKE A FAST WOODPECKER OR A DIESEL ENGINE, ITS VERY SLIGHT BUT YOU CAN HEAR IT. my timing is set to 15 BTDC, if i go more retarded on it it lessens the knock, if I set it at 15 or higher advanced it get more. engine has 92 octane fuel in it now. Vac Advance does work and is hooked up. WHAT IS IT? AND JUST FOR YOUR ENJOYMENT!! Edited November 23, 2014 by AnotherGL10guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherGL10guy Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 I also want to say that I did perform a Compression Test on all 4 Cylinders and the result was not good. I do have a very old crappy tester and its a push in style and the valve has a slight leak so I cant say for sure till i get it into my shop at school, but I read #1- 110psi #2- 85psi #3- 125psi #4- 110psi this is at full Opp temp. Also did the oil test to test rings and it did not change. when I rebuilt this engine the heads were cracked both pretty good between the valves but when I performed a pressure test all was fine. I replaced every seal and gasket the kit cam with (LOTS!) and never did test Compression until yesterday. so who knows. the more I retard the timing the better the sound gets (until its warm of course) but it runs like crap. runs awesome when set at 20-25 BTDC but has a bad knock untill driven for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) next vid, how about some hard cake soap rubbed on the belts to quiet them down, drop the 5-30 grade and use correct grade for EA82T in your temperature operating ranges like 15 40 ? I had similar sort of noise from mine when it was running tight exhaust valves producing 130 130 on one bank, 150 and 160 on other bank - at op temp. Cold next morning - add ~10 psi to all readings Lucky mine's EA81 so could adjust valves to cams spec achieved 165 psi all four pots cold cranking. Odd noise gone. Goes like a rocket again. For tips on Advance timing meaning number increases - think you see it on the flywheel. And yes, as you wind bost max up, decrease timing as in retard, or lower the timing light number. I took mine down from 20 to 16 at 800 rpm, no vac advance connected - rather line plugged for timing job, on a flapper style when I wound boost to 12 ish. Factory manuals for these engines suggest 130 psi crank pressure is a good engine. How is the blow by pressures in crank case ? Take oil fill lid off while running to look to compare ? Edited November 23, 2014 by jono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherGL10guy Posted November 24, 2014 Author Share Posted November 24, 2014 yeah sorry about that bad audio, but you can hear it through all that racket best toward the end of the video. It really sounds like a "" Diesel Engine "" to me, mind you this dissipates after driving awhile. even with the issues and bad compression reading it runs great down the road! (could be my test meter) oh and Im sorry, I looked at the bottle and the oil I used in the car is 10w-40 Royal Purple. not sure why I thought it was 5-30, maybe thats whats in my Jeep...my bad. I really want to run about 11-12 psi boost, set timing to about 22 BTDC, run 92 octane and have a fun healthy motor till I swap the EJ in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Factory timing spec is 8* BTDC. 15 degrees is way advanced for base timing. Still running the vacuumdizzy? for carbureted n/a models Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I would guess the timing belt slipped a notch and has a loose tensioner. check your timing marks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherGL10guy Posted November 25, 2014 Author Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) I thoughtn it would run like really bad if the belts slipped a notch?? it runs great. also I just put brand new timing belts, tensioners and rebuilt the heads complete. the thing doesnt leak or burn a drop of oil. ILL CHECK this tho Miles Fox thank you. EDIT**** Miles, timing is OK, all is good there. ANYTHING ELSE GUYS???? Edited December 1, 2014 by AnotherGL10guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherGL10guy Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 so do people read this once and never come back? feeling a bit left out LOL. kiding. OK on a serious note, does anyone have any initial or further thoughts after watching the vid and hearing that clacking sound? and on another note, if you saw my other PROBLEM thread, maybe you can help with my other problem as well.... When its cold the ECS light does not come on with the ignition key on and the car will not start due to the pump not coming on. installed a new fuel pump RELAY, tore the Brain (ECS) out and apart, all looks fine. when I put a heat gun to the ECS or the pump itself, the light will flicker on and car will eventually start. Its a very odd issue. So question is, if the Fuel Pump is bad, will that cause the ECS light to not come one with the rest of the dummy lights when I turn the ignition ON? When I plug the green check plug together its the same deal unless something is warmed up. Its very cold out last few days, car does fine unless the temp drops below 30 or so. thanks a bunch for any help guys and gals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jono Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 OK, now you begin to confuse me - first you say it is all good but from this noise problem, then later you say it has bad compression, yet it runs fine. OK. I had the best, crsipest power delivery EA82T, so quiet in operation - like new. Would have bet a left one that it was a good reliable runner, until I ran it up a test mountain - turned into a JB 007 style smoke screen - engine oil getting up the rear baffle and into the intake at a rate not affecting spark, not a miss at all. Took a down hill run and a bit more to clear the air Big surprise when I did a comp test 130,13,130, 60 Heads off, heads fine, so must be blow by, some scuff marks on bore ...and that is where the story book closed five years ago. Another negine went in, this one sits waiting for autopsy - alongside another with a long life tick from gudgeon pin bush ?? Keep reading, my daily EA81 was making chugging noises at idle - found 130,130 in one bank hot, 150, 160 in the other side. Reset tappet clearances, got 165 in all four pots - chug a chug noise gone. See what I am getting at ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKghandi Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 too me it sounds like thin oil.. i never run anything less than 10-30. the owners manual says 5w-30 no recomended for sustained high speed driving. i also never run synthetic. i usuall run a 10-40 diesel oil.. and i live in alaska, never had any problems with it even at -20 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherGL10guy Posted December 6, 2014 Author Share Posted December 6, 2014 AK Ill try that. I think now its a HLA Lifter on Pass side head. I may have missed one of those oil galley veins that suply oil to the lifter/cam.. its not major noise just when cold.car runs OK now, has plenty of power and is quite "Quik" really LOL. soon (2 months MAX) EJ22 here we come. going to build a decent mild Hi-Comp dual port SOHC OBD2 ej22. hope for about 150 reliable HP, no more no less. more in torque Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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