95' Legacy door speaker size, easy to get at them?

[Bushwick]

It looks like they are 6.5" speakers in the doors, but I want to be certain before pulling any door covers off. Also, are the front and rear door panels difficult to remove? Any tricks with them coming out?

 

 

I think the speakers might not be factory as the stereo was not factory when I got the car. I replaced that stereo with a newer Pioneer, and have yet to ever hear them distort regardless of volume, which I doubt the factory speakers could handle in a base L model, especially after 19 years. Or did Subaru actually contract a decent speaker company? 

[86BRATMAN]

6.5 all around in the second gen's. And the stock speakers are were adequate when new, and if I remember correctly made by Clarion. Best way to get at them is to remove the entire door panel (all 4 if wagon and just fronts for sedan as the rears are under the rear shelf cover which requires removal of the back seat to do without potentially breaking the shelf).

[climbing4life]

They are 6.5" in both front and rear. I have heard that not all 6.5" aftermarket models would fit. In my 97' Legacy L, I replaced rear speakers with Polk db651. They would fit the front as well. crutchfield.com is a good resource to find fitments for your car. Installation was easy. Both front and rear door panels are easy to remove. I practiced at a boneyard first, though. When removing plastic door handles, pay extra attention because a small plastic piece with a hole for the screw breaks very easily. My car stereo is Pioneer also. After installing new speakers I couldn't hear any difference. New 2-way Polk speakers look great and rich comparing to original ones. Original speakers are very generic: paper cones, small magnets, made in Mexico. I guess that 1. The original speakers were not so bad even after 17 years 2. Speakers are not the weakest link in my car stereo system. Really, I could hear any improvement in sound even when I sat in the back.

Edited November 30, 2014 by climbing4life

[Bushwick]

Yeah, it's a wagon. Clarion was actually a decent speaker maker in the 90's. My doors are the only things NOT amplified externally yet (tweeters, mid-bass, and subs are). I'll be really surprised if the factory units are still in then. The Pioneer is probably 10-15w RMS x 4, and at full volume with high pass around 80 hz starting point, I've yet to hear them rattle or give any sign of of clipping or distortion, which you'd normally get with most cheaper factory speakers. 

[Bushwick]

They are 6.5" in both front and rear. I have heard that not all 6.5" aftermarket models would fit.

 

Yeah, you've always got to watch with 6.5" drivers with large magnets in door cutouts, as sometimes a window can hit them, or worse they hit the back panel and need spacers to sit further out. Rear doors aren't usually an issue as most windows stop midway, although we get the funky rear window slant when rolled down. First time I noticed it I thought they were off track LOL.

 

I've got a 3rd amp on the way 75w RMS x 4 that will be for the doors. Since tweeters are separates as are my 8" mid-bass, the doors will be full range for vocals, etc. Was hoping people would say "factory speakers are junk, they rattle, etc." as it'd tell me right away if someone already installed newer units, and thus avoid the issue of pulling 4 door panels, or at least 1 panel to see what's there.

[climbing4life]

You can use a flashlight and look through the grilles. Factory speakers look like this.
With your amplifiers you would probably benefit from new speakers.
I was really surprised that the original speakers were not junk.
In most cars they are, and new speakers is the easiest way to upgrade the sound even when keeping the factory head unit.

Edited November 30, 2014 by climbing4life

[Bushwick]

Thanks for the pic and the suggestion. Just checked with a flashlight. They are original  

 

Think I'll try and run them from the amp and see if they last or not. They are technically just full range speakers, and as long as the lows are cut they should be OK for a little more than their rated wattage just doing mid-range and higher freq. They don't need to have a large magnet for that. Speakers from yesteryear were paper, and paper mid-range still beats a polymer mid-range from the ear test. I've always upgraded factory speakers in the past as they've never been up to snuff, and if these were the only speakers in the car, then some decent 2-ways would be required. But I have a feeling if they can survive a true 65-75w with lows cut, they'll sound good enough backing up everything else. If not, some mid-range drivers from partsconnection will probably work. 

[climbing4life]

Factory speakers rated 30W max. I'd run up to 15W clean power through them.

How much power do you need anyways?

I was once considering getting mid-range woofers from parts-express.com, but really wasn't sure what to get as they don't give technical details needed for choosing a quality speaker for high-end sound system.

If you shop at partsconnexion.com then you'd be better off looking for components to build your own high quality crossovers.

I just want to stress one more time to others who read this thread that original subaru speakers and tweeters are of decent quality, and there're other components that need attention first.

Here is the plan if you don't intend to play it very loud (I personally think that 15W RMS per channel is more than enough):

1. cut off lows at 200Hz

2. use an amplified subwoofer for low frequencies

3. make sure that wiring is for true four channels. run your own wires if needed

4. build high quality first order crossovers with 5000Hz point and compensation circuits for front speakers

[Bushwick]

If you are using the amp's internal crossover points, you don't need chokes or caps though tweeters sound good with a nice Nichicon  10mf @ 50v (can use a 1mf @50v but it cuts the freq. too high). Same deal with head units that have internal high pass settings. You can limit everything (but the subs) to say 100 hz or even 80 hz from the head unit as most 6x9's or 6.5" woofers can easily handle that.

 

For parts express stuff, look at the db of the speaker and read the reviews. A speaker doing 98 db at 1 watt will be much more efficient (louder with less power) than a twin making 88 db at 1 watt (will need MORE wattage to get as loud as the 98 db). Mid range speakers fall into this category of a high db rating. Sub woofers on the other hand typically fall in mid to late 80's db range. Tweeters are typically in the 90's to low 100's.

 

 

How "loud" do I need it? 15 watt isn't enough. And head units are Class D which doesn't sound nearly as nice as a class A/B amp. I liken a good class A/B amp to a bottle of Champagne that's just been opened. And a class D amp to a can of flat pop that's been sitting out for a day. Yes you can still drink both, and if all you've ever drank was flat pop, you'd think it was great, but one is an experience while the other isn't. I have MANY 70's early 80's home stereo Solid State stuff. My personal favorite is a 35w RMS MCS 3233 stereo. It just rocks with movies and the like and obliterates a 100w per channel modern unit in both sound quality and dynamic range. As far as the car stuff goes, I listen to 70's and 80's pop, rock, alt, etc. I'm interested in sound quality. In the car when I turn the head unit up to say 35%, the music is very dynamic and encompassing. You can't get that from 15w of class D. My 4 tweeters are connected to 100w x 2 but their gain is low and the head unit's high freq. are nearly flat to neg values (running off the head unit and just the door speakers, these same settings were maxed out). A 10" and 12" sub are set to roughly 300w each. The two 8" at the moment are connected to 50w (not enough). The gain from each amp is adjusted to be fairly close to the head unit's output, but just a bit higher. The end result is similar to a 160 wpc late 70's Solid State home stereo like a Pioneer SX1250. 

 

So to answer the question, "loudness" is NOT the desired target. It's getting all the speakers producing very clean and VERY dynamic sounds across the entire listening spectrum instead of sounding dead and flat with a ton of distortion (distortion isn't a hiss or hum, it's exaggerated music qualities I'm trying to avoid). At home in my very quiet living room, the 35 wpc stereo is very dynamic and can peak in excess of 65w. It's completely perfect at home. If THAT were in the car, it'd sound terrible and it'd also have to compete with road noise.

 

At full volume, you can't listen to it as it's WAY too "loud" on the higher frequencies, talking rock concert loud where your ears are ringing as the music hits them. At normal to moderate volume, it sounds very nice to my ears. The subs rarely see any rap, and are there just to round everything out. Like a home stereo system with 2 15's or similar.