’98 Legacy EJ22 head gasket issue…

[BRAAP]

Short version, ’98 Legacy L Sedan, EJ22, daughters car she recently purchased. Previous owner had done head gaskets in the past, (within
10’000 miles or so). Leaking oil all over including head gaskets dripping oil from the oil drain back, removed engine, bought a budget gasket set with the silver graphite head gaskets, new head bolts, replaced all seals, crank, cam, pulled heads, etc. Heads were warped, (wasn’t dealt with during previous work done) so I decked the heads, put all back together, torqued the hoky-pokey torque sequence spelled in Haynes, had factory Subaru T-stat. Ran great, no issues till about 8,000 miles, then after long down hill no-load condition, (1+ mile down hill), at about the 1 mile point temp would literally rocket up, gauge would swing almost as fast a tach could swing, coolant blowing out of the overflow all over engine bay. Replaced T-stat with another new Subaru brand T-stat thinking T-stat stuck. All well till next trip down same long hill, same rapid temp rise issue. Long drive from Portland to Seattle and back, no problem, but down that hill it would rapidly overheat again. Fought this for couple weeks and hand full of cycles, Opened radiator cap, distinct catalyst exhaust smell, yet no water in oil.

 

Pulled engine again, removed heads, evidence of exhaust gasses getting past fire ring into the coolant chamber  towards the center on bottom/exhaust side. heads still perfectly flat, case decks will allow .0015” feeler but not a .002”, decks are acceptable.

I’m at a loss for how/why these gaskets let go, dont want another premature failure. As professional engine builder/machinist since the ‘90’s, (literally thousands of engine builds from stock rebuilds to very high-performance builds including world record setting 1146HP TT BB endurance race engines), all my work has been traditional inline and V-engines, lots of Datsun L-series, domestic iron and modern GM LSx, no Suby engines, this is the first. Applying the techniques I know to work with typical graphite head gaskets, clean, dry, oil free deck surfaces, I assumed it would be fine, turns out I was wrong as these gaskets didn’t last past 8000 miles, with the tough and stable EJ22 at that. Obviously my fault some how, right?

Not wanting to repeat the failure, little digging revealed current factory head gaskets are favored amongst those that have been tinkering
on these over the years along with application of Permatex Aviation Form-a-gasket on both sides of gasket.

Just want to be sure I am covering all bases before reassembling.

Recap before reassembly;

Head decks are perfectly flat/true, smooth flycut surface, deburred on all bolt holes and exterior edges and Combustion chambers, left raw-as cut in oil and coolant transfer passages.

Case decks are flat, (less than .002” from true).

Factory Suby Head gaskets, thin film of Permatex Aviation Form-A-Gasket on both sides of each.
Both case and head decks cleaned with brake clean, oil free.

All head bolt holes blown out to remove any fluid/debris.

Light coat of motor oil on head bolt threads and under thrust surface of the head bolts. (Seems reusing head bolts is acceptable?)

Follow the torque, release and retorque sequence in Haynes, (recently calibrated Snap-On torque wrench and Snap-On dial-a torque degree
wheel).

Am I missing anything, got anything crossed or messed up,off my rocker?.....

Will also be cleaning radiator and back flushing heater core and verifying adequate flow through both, along with tacking water pump impeller to shaft, new Suby T-stat.

Edited December 27, 2014 by BRAAP

[ocei77]

It was the original HG material.

E bay HG kits are trash.

No form a gasket.

Yes on reusing head bolts. Hopefully you still have the oem units.  If not.......

 

O.

[BRAAP]

It was the original HG material.

E bay HG kits are trash.

No form a gasket.

Yes on reusing head bolts. Hopefully you still have the oem units.  If not.......

 

O.

 

 

Thanks for the heads up, just looked at the new OEM gasket, it is a Graphite gasket. For some reason I thought it was a paper gasket which would lend some credence to the application of tack etc I had read elsewhere. Being Graphite it has been my experience, as you suggested, never NEVER use sealants on the Graphite face, not a good practice.

 

Fire ring on the OEM gasket appears to be a thicker/more robust wire within the fire ring vs the aftermarket gasket I originally used, should help keep the combustion pressures from escaping the chamber.

 

Is retorquing the head gaskets after so many engine run/heat cycles recommended?

 

 

 

Paul

Edited December 28, 2014 by BRAAP

[idosubaru]

1 Resurface heads

2 Subaru headgaskets dry (no sealant or form a gasket needed) (aftermarket headgaskets are known to be problematic, right around 10k i think others have experienced)

3 Reuse the headbolts. 

4. no retorque on these

 

I wouldn't use aftermarket head bolts myself - i know of two very quick repeat EJ25 headgasket failures where people used aftermarket head bolts.  it probably *wasn't* the headbolts and that's may be an anecdotal two experiences...but...when the OEM headbolts are robust and have a nearly 100% success rate the compelling reason to deviate from what is a problematic headgasket is missing. 

 

more than likely cheap gaskets are the cause here. 

 

One very miniscule problem you have is an unknown, or maybe it's not?  The heads were previously removed/repaired and the question remains - how badly was it overheated? 

 

I guess if the block wasn't too far out and the timing covers weren't melted then that suggests it wasn't too badly overheated.  With enough overheating other bad things can happen but we are assuming that is an assumption being made here.

[BRAAP]

1 Resurface heads

2 Subaru headgaskets dry (no sealant or form a gasket needed) (aftermarket headgaskets are known to be problematic, right around 10k i think others have experienced)

3 Reuse the headbolts. 

4. no retorque on these

 

I wouldn't use aftermarket head bolts myself - i know of two very quick repeat EJ25 headgasket failures where people used aftermarket head bolts.  it probably *wasn't* the headbolts and that's may be an anecdotal two experiences...but...when the OEM headbolts are robust and have a nearly 100% success rate the compelling reason to deviate from what is a problematic headgasket is missing. 

 

more than likely cheap gaskets are the cause here. 

 

One very miniscule problem you have is an unknown, or maybe it's not?  The heads were previously removed/repaired and the question remains - how badly was it overheated? 

 

I guess if the block wasn't too far out and the timing covers weren't melted then that suggests it wasn't too badly overheated.  With enough overheating other bad things can happen but we are assuming that is an assumption being made here.

 

Heads decked and true.

The headbolts I bought and installed were aftermarket.

Still have the old head bolts, not sure if they are OE, is there any way to tell if they are?

Being as the heads were warped it was clearly overheated in its past, I assume that is why previous owner had head gaskets done, no idea how bad the overheat was other than the amount of warp the ehads received Cylinder walls show no sign of skirt/piston seizure, (not sure at what point Suby skirts or thick meat around the pin boses swells to the point of seize as seen on severaly overheated inline/V engines). Any how, heads cleaned up at .006" and .007" for a clear no shadow deck when I decked 8k ago, they are still perfectly flat and true.

Being cam-in-head I am a tad concerned about the cam line not being true now, though at only .006'-.007" warp cam bearing/housing wear should be minimal.

Case deck warpage/cup is just under .002", both sides.

Edited December 28, 2014 by BRAAP

[mikaleda]

Heads are alwaysed warped when the gaskets Go on these motors. Use only OEM or felpro gaskets on these engines (felpro are the same gaskets as oem) follow tourque instructions. Reuse of headbolts is fine. Might as well replace the timing components and water pump while your there

Done right you won't have to worry about the HGS again

Always instal head gaskets dry

Edited December 28, 2014 by mikaleda

[idosubaru]

i'd use the old bolts - do they look different?  post a pic or compare to other online pics to OEM bolts in a google image search.  most people don't replace the bolts so probably the originals.

 

subaru heads always have high and low spots - even when they are never overheated, so don't sweat the heads being out somewhat.  i've never measured, i've just resurfaced them and watched the high and low spots disappear as i go. 

 

the most common issue likely stemming from severe overheats is lower end bearing failure.  i've seen lots of lower end bearing failures and no cam failures so i wouldn't worry about cams.  they rarely do seize, but not sure what you could due to mitigate that besides just check the bearing surfaces or replace. 

[BRAAP]

Heads

are alwaysed warped when the gaskets Go on these motors. Use only OEM

or felpro gaskets on these engines (felpro are the same gaskets as oem)

follow tourque instructions. Reuse of headbolts is fine. Might as well

replace the timing components and water pump while your there

Done right you won't have to worry about the HGS again

Always instal head gaskets dry

 

 

Water pump and Timing belt are new, praying it wont let go again, but not holding my breath.... (read on)....

 

 

i'd use the old bolts - do they look different?  post a pic or compare to other online pics to OEM bolts in a google image search.  most people don't replace the bolts so probably the originals.

 

subaru heads always have high and low spots - even when they are never overheated, so don't sweat the heads being out somewhat.  i've never measured, i've just resurfaced them and watched the high and low spots disappear as i go. 

 

the most common issue likely stemming from severe overheats is lower end bearing failure.  i've seen lots of lower end bearing failures and no cam failures so i wouldn't worry about cams.  they rarely do seize, but not sure what you could due to mitigate that besides just check the bearing surfaces or replace. 

 

Bought new OE SUBARU head bolts this AM, installed the heads, clean and dry deck surfaces, thin coat of motor oil on head bolt threads, thin coat oil under washer and head bolt thrust face.

Here are the head bolts, old were what was in the car when I originally tore it down, (forging around the head appears identical to the new OE), the grade 10.9 are the aftermarket I purchased, and the breand new head bolts from Subara.

 

 

 

Hindsight being 20/20....

When I originally tore the heads head off the first time I recall noting the open deck design and rolling my eyes, (as a performance engine builder, not a fan of open decks, it can and does work fine but is susceptible to cylinder walk where closed deck designs dont), also noted how the sheetmetal rungs in the head gaskets on the exhaust side had gathered/bunched up/pinched, odd but carried on not giving it a second thought. After installing the heads this last time I stumbled across those old head gaskets again, light bulb.. the cylinders are walking, pulling and bunching the gasket up. This happaned in the same exact location that the head gaskets I installed let go, fire rings also show signs of movement/rubbing from the wandering cylinder decks.....

 

Even though this time I am using OE gaskets, new OE head bolts, paying even clsoer attention tothe cleneliness of hte deck surfaces, I dont expect it to last past 10,000-15,000 miles.

 

 

[Fairtax4me]

I've done several ej22 head gasket jobs and have never seen gaskets look like that. I would lean more towards a faulty gasket on that one. Cylinder walk I would also expect there to be damage all around the cylinder, not just at the bottom. Something else was going on there.

 

The last one I did I didn't even machine the heads. Just cleaned them up with an air wheel and some sand paper. Slapped it together with Felpro gaskets (they have the Fuji logo on them) That engine has done about 25k miles since.

 

What is the torque sequence in the Haynes manual?

[BRAAP]

I've done several ej22 head gasket jobs and have never seen gaskets look like that. I would lean more towards a faulty gasket on that one. Cylinder walk I would also expect there to be damage all around the cylinder, not just at the bottom. Something else was going on there.

............

 

Agreed, something is going on to cause the gasket to pull in like that.

 

 

 

......

 

What is the torque sequence in the Haynes manual?

 

 

[MilesFox]

be sur to fill the block by the upper hose first. burping the air out is tricky with subarus. Generally speaking, old-time automotive wisdom or expertise is a whole different bag than what pertains to Subaru. Good luck

[BRAAP]

be sur to fill the block by the upper hose first. burping the air out is tricky with subarus. Generally speaking, old-time automotive wisdom or expertise is a whole different bag than what pertains to Subaru. Good luck

Thank you for the heads up, definitely a learning curve in adapting to the Sube nuances.

Edited December 30, 2014 by BRAAP

[idosubaru]

As one of Subaru's best engines they've ever made, they do not blow head gaskets without reason. Subaru people/shops have been working with EJ22's all the time for decades, they
aren't mysterious, difficult, challenging, or problem child engines. Should be simple:

 

1. heads are not flat or the repair wasn't done right - this sounds unlikely based on your skill level and thorough investigation

2. headgaskets (or bolts - purely speculative as i'm unfamiliar with aftermarket bolt quality?) are cheap

3. it was previously overheated severely and the block is compromised...cylinder liners shifted or something else.

is there a way to test cylinder liners moving/shifting/misplaced/evenness?

 

Address either numbers 2 or 3 and it will not have a repeat failure.

 

If you feel confident the parts are not too blame it could make sense to source another block.

www.car-part.com

Edited December 30, 2014 by grossgary

[Fairtax4me]

Torque sequence looks right. There were some inconsistencies in the older service manuals. Just wanted to make sure you had the correct sequence.

 

I have to wonder if that edge of the block is beveled or rounded and made the gasket slide out.

[forester2002s]

 

 

I am getting ready to replace the head-gaskets on my non-turbo EJ251.

I am going to use new turbo-gaskets (#11044AA642), which I think are slightly thicker than the old OEM gaskets.

 

How should I torque the new head-gaskets?

- Should I use the 'non-turbo' torques (since this is my engine)?

- Or should I use the 'turbo' torques (to match the turbo-gaskets)?

[mikaleda]

I would use the non turbo specs since the bolts and heads are made for non turbo specs

[MilesFox]

The ej22 has the most reliable head gaskets along with the ea81. anything you read about HG failures in regards to 2.5 and MLS does not apply to either of these engines. Arguably the best subaru motor EVER (the ea81 scores a point more since it lacks a timing belt. Both engines find their way into aircraft applications

[Gloyale]

Agreed, something is going on to cause the gasket to pull in like that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Haynes Sucks.  There is a persistant mistake repeated in them.

 

There should be only one loosening of 180 degrees.....enough to bring the effective torque on the bolt to zero but not enough to let "loose".

 

THis may be letting the gasket wander during the process.

 

Although I'm inclined to think that both you and previous owner used cheapo gaskets.....they fail......I've had the same experience with them from Mizuna or something???  they suck.....won't last 10k miles.

 

OE subaru grapithe with the fuji stamp ONLY.

[BRAAP]

Heads back back on, engine back in the car, cooling system burped, fired right up, shake down run was good, handed keys back to daughter, she's been running all over town today, so far so good. Not hold holding my breath for long term.

 

Thanks a bunch guys, greatly apprecaited. Hope this thread ends up being a help to others.

[MilesFox]

check the coolant again after the car has sat overnnite. if it needs topped off, you may have best luck filling from the vent hole on the passenger side of the radiator.

[BRAAP]

check the coolant again after the car has sat overnnite. if it needs topped off, you may have best luck filling from the vent hole on the passenger side of the radiator.

Will do, thanks again.

[Gloyale]

Torque sequence looks right. There were some inconsistencies in the older service manuals. Just wanted to make sure you had the correct sequence.

 

 

 

Once again to be clear.

 

Step "4" in that proceedure should not be there.  Loosen by 180 degrees only once.  Twice is too far removed and allows the head and gasket to shift between the steps.

 

And also......Why the hell would they give the center bolts torque in Ft/lbs, and the outer ones in In/lbs?......stupid haynes/chiltons

 

Torque to 51 ft/lbs (fsm doesn't say to do the 22 ft/lbs first...not for grapithe gasket 2.2)

loosen 180 degrees

Torque Center bolt torque......25 ft/lbs

Outer bolts....14 ft/lbs

then tighten 90 degrees

then  tighten another 90 degrees

Edited January 1, 2015 by Gloyale