kahfean Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) What car would you buy? Criteria: $10,000 - $12,000 to spend (maximum of 15k if worth it) AWD (west Michigan roads get pretty awful in winter) Cargo space enough for two short and thin people to sleep in 20+ mpg highway Must survive 4-6 years of daily driving + light "two track" offroading Do I need to worry about rumors of reoccurring head gasket leaks? How do I avoid them? What model? What year and what mileage would you aim for? Hello friends, I just registered with your fine internet community to receive some advice. Pretend you're me, complete with a long and pointy red beard. You finally payed off your 2008 Wrangler Rubicon 4-door and want to either trade-in or sell it privately. You know you could get at least 12-15k for it. You could get closer to 20k if you spent 3k in cosmetic and minor mechanical repairs. So you figure you have a comfortable 12k to work with in your quest to find a AWD car with enough cargo space to accommodate a double size memory foam pad for you and your smokin' hot petite wife to "sleep" on when camping. You're just 5' 8" and that's alright because that's above the average male height in Ireland so all of those 6ft+ tall Americans that made you feel so insecure in High School are just a bunch of freaks with disproportionately sized genitalia being most probable. You would know because you do nursing work and have had intimate contact with hundreds of samples. You just remembered to stay on point and that you probably just crossed the line between a lighthearted request for help and an obnoxious attempt to be funny. You decide to make bullet points for the people that chose wisely and skipped your paragraph of nonsense and narcissism. Thanks for reading and thanks in advance to anyone that may reply! Serious and sarcastic replies are welcome. Nothing wrong with a little fun. “Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” - C.S Lewis Edited January 21, 2015 by kahfean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I would spend 3,000 on a fixer, 1,500 fixing it, keep the rest for future maintenance... or upgrades to help overshadow that inadequacy... If you want to sleep in the back you'll want a Legacy Outback. The Impreza Outback Sport and Forester have a shorter cargo area (pun?) and will be uncomfortable to sleep in, even for people of short stature. Any 2.5 (1996 to 2011) will have head gasket issues at some point, though the 99 and newer have fewer issues, and mostly suffer from small, manageable, external leaks. With a conservative 10k budget, try for the 8,000 range purchase price and you'll have 2,000 for repairs if it needs any. (Head gaskets, timing belt, suspension/brakes, exhaust, etc.) 8k should put you in the mid 2000s. 03-08ish depending on mileage, condition, trim level, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smo Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I've slept in the back of my 2000 legacy numerous times. Quite a few times just in the car, but then I built a sleeping platform a couple of years ago. It works great! It's sort of like one of those Japanese tube hotels, and hilarious when two people try to get in or out, or get dressed at the same time. I'm 6 foot even, and disproportionately sized, for the record. When using the platform I sleep with my head on top of the driver's seat (I pull the head rest out and put a pillow in its place). That works pretty well, although my feet are up against the glass. But that said, I live in AZ and usually, even if its raining, I sleep with the hatch open for more air. I put curtains in, but need to reinstall them and fix them up a bit. One of these days I'll get around to it...See attached photo. I've since modified it a bit, and made pull-out platforms to cook on. This winter's wood shop project is to make a full-on pull-out kitchen for the passenger-side storage compartment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Pick up a 98-99 Outback with a band 2.5 DOHC engine and drop in a good 95 2.2. Drive it for ever, easy to work on, save the extra $7,000 for tires and normal Maintenance. Buy a rust free CO car. Contact Shawn, he can set you up. Edited January 21, 2015 by lmdew 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) what he said: buy a blown EJ25 OBW from 1996 - 1999 and install a fresh EJ22 with new timing gear, seals, etc. that's the cheapest and most reliable 100,000 or 200,000 miles you can get. If you want newer buy an 05+ with leaking headgaskets and have it properly repaired:1. install EJ25 turbo headgaskets, Six Star, or Fel Pro MLS 2. resurface the heads 3. install Subaru Coolant Conditioner Proper repair is about $2,000 Or buy whatever 4 cylinder you want and reduce your purchase price by $2,000 in case of HG issues later on. You have months or years to plan a repair, the 2000+ models dont' leave you stranded. they start leaking and gradually get worse. Edited January 22, 2015 by grossgary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) look out of state for a rust free, clean 95 Legacy wagon & get the best of just about all of them. Do a strut lift with Outback/Forester struts & springs - net gain around 1.75-2 inches (all brand new parts was around $450 for mine). add on 15" wheels (Forester or Outback) with some good tires = a little more height. 95 has the non-interference EJ22 - best Subaru motor ever built! very durable and reliable. also easy to work on when something does go wrong. Non-interference so you dont have to worry about potential valve train problems if the timing belt does let go. OBDII so it is easy to determine what a CEL is for with a handheld code reader. Fuel mileage is mid 20s in winter, upper 20s in summer, with the potential to hit 30mpg... And the best part is cost. They can be had for cheap (in comparison to 2000+) - save the extra money for other things or put it away for a rainy day. I have the car described above (minus the rust free part ) and I love my lifted 95 wagon! I have done a little bit of 2 track trail riding in it and it performed very well. Deep snow is no problem either. just the .02 cents from a relocated Michigander... Edited January 22, 2015 by heartless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I would buy a 90 legacy Manuel trans (it just so happens the car I have is my dream car in the making) put a rebuilt ej22 in it, have the trans completely rebuilt with upgraded bearings, outback struts upgrade, up size tires, vlsd rear diff, paint the underside with rino liner (rust protection) and if any things left over save it for future maintence Of course being a mechanic, I would save a lot by doing most of the work myself. this is my plan eventually though If you think that's crazy just ask me what my plans are for my GMC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 4-6 years of daily driving is rather light use. what's your main concern - gas mileage, reliabiliy, cost of ownership, low maintenance? reliability and low maintenance, reduce your purchase price by a $1,000 or $2,000 and ask knowledgeable Subaru people what preventative maintenance to do based on that model/mileage. buying a new battery, alternator, and doing normal maintenance stuff - and a few model/year dependent items can bring a used car to nearly like-new reliability. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahfean Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 You guys are so wonderful. Thank you! I'll entertain these options in more detail this weekend and will then share what course of action I'm leaning towards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kahfean Posted January 22, 2015 Author Share Posted January 22, 2015 4-6 years of daily driving is rather light use. what's your main concern - gas mileage, reliabiliy, cost of ownership, low maintenance? reliability and low maintenance, reduce your purchase price by a $1,000 or $2,000 and ask knowledgeable Subaru people what preventative maintenance to do based on that model/mileage. buying a new battery, alternator, and doing normal maintenance stuff - and a few model/year dependent items can bring a used car to nearly like-new reliability. My top concerns are reliability, and low maintenance. By low maintenance I mean something closer to being a facet of reliability. I want it to not be prone to frequent expensive repairs. I am accustom to putting a descent and consistent amount of money into monthly or bimonthly maintenance and upkeep, that's fine! I've grown up driving only Jeep Cherokees and Wranglers that, while still requiring all the routine maintenance, can handle the cold and occasional things I violently run over. I'm not expecting a Subaru to be able to handle light rock climbing and mudding like my 08 Rubicon, but I want it to not be phased by daily driving year round, significant puddles, and "two track" roads in Michigan's Upper Peninsula that are only groomed in the summer. I need to get through some respectably sandy and muddy trails for camping and visiting my Aunt's cabin. I'm confident that the powertain in the Subaru's mentioned above will be plenty sufficient. With that accounted for, my main concern is: Reliability Durability (Resistance to significant breaks) Longevity (6 years would be excellent) Versatility (Snow driving + sleeping space) Things like initial cost to acquire and cost of monthly upkeep should be more negligible for me. Gas mileage is not as important either but I would like something that gets 20+ MPG highway. I don't care if it's fast or handles agilely. I want a practical car for a practical MMMAN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 96-99 Outback with a 95 2.2 in it. I love the Standards, but Autos are good to as long as they have been maintained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosens Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Western 2.2 Legacy if you need the room or Impreza since you're Leprichan. Spend under $3000 and Guinness the rest. Easy. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 2007 CO low mileage Outback; http://cosprings.craigslist.org/cto/4860517473.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 With that accounted for, my main concern is: Reliability Durability (Resistance to significant breaks) Longevity (6 years would be excellent) Versatility (Snow driving + sleeping space) Things like initial cost to acquire and cost of monthly upkeep should be more negligible for me. early to mid 90's 2.2 Legacy (95 would be optimal) - if you can find one in the 125-150K mile range, you can be pretty confident of getting another 100K out of it pretty easily, more if you take care of it. We bought my 1990 for $200 - had about 152,000 miles on it. invested in a timing kit (under $200) and some used coil-over strut assemblies (had blown air suspension) fixed the exhaust and I drove it for about 7 years - still have it - has 237,000 miles, give or take a few hundred. still ran great but has salt cancer pretty bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snaker Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Manual Trans is the way to go in any used car.. Auto's will always have some kind of stupid problem. Manuals are 99% bulletproof. I'd opt for a WRx wagon or hatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Manual Trans is the way to go in any used car.. Auto's will always have some kind of stupid problem. Manuals are 99% bulletproof. I'd opt for a WRx wagon or hatch. Subaru MTs eat mainshaft bearings at 175k, almost guaranteed. Autos have far better survival rate in these cars. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru_dude Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Manual Trans is the way to go in any used car.. Auto's will always have some kind of stupid problem. Manuals are 99% bulletproof. I'd opt for a WRx wagon or hatch. Not sure I agree with that. Have had 2 manual trans Subarus lose the rear main input shaft bearing. Also, they almost always leak out of the front seal which requires splitting of the case to fix. Not so with auto trans. The number one thing to look out for with the auto is neglected front diff maintenance. That's the #1 cause of auto trans failures. I'm driving my first auto trans fluid and it's really nice to not smell burning transaxle grease all the time. And any board member who has owned many 4eat Subarus will tell you they are particularly tough but you have to look out for torque bind. A quick search will tell you what you need to know about that. Personally, I would go for an '06 or '07 Outback that has had the headgaskets done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosens Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 To sum it up , I think for a lot of us with a few 4EAT's gone by we'd rather have the manual with wicked bearing noise than the automatic with similar high mileage based on history of repair/failure. My FWD five speed made noise from 185k-220 ish but lately with over 250k it's quieter and does not pop out of gear , synchros nice ... What can I say? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 My legacy has over 220k on it and is quite as can be going down the road, shifts good and everything. I did buy it at 211k so I don't know if the trans was replaced or not though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) Manual Trans is the way to go in any used car.. Auto's will always have some kind of stupid problem. Manuals are 99% bulletproof. I'd opt for a WRx wagon or hatch. main shaft, input shaft, synchro's, more expensive torque bind issues, clutch maintenance, hydraulic clutch fluid, slave cylinder, and hose failure....if MT's are bulletproof then so are Subaru AT's. probably a wash - they're both great platforms, don't have many high percentage issues and respond well to good maintenance - it's a very low percentage of issues. in a used car the history and prior maintenance are probably orders of magnitude more important for the trans than whatever statistically relevant differences exist between MT and AT reliability/cost of maintenance. MT's require engine/trans removal for clutch replacement - significant expense. It's about equivalent to replacing an AT in labor costs. Parts wise - couple hundred for clutch kit, resurface flywheel, not much different from $250 - $500 for a used AT which are cheap and readily available due to lack of demand/good reliability/lots of them. Main difference in my book is that's a cost/time commitment that's likely never needed for an AT but always needed for an MT. Edited February 5, 2015 by grossgary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosens Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Yeah I agree with much of that - nearly equal - and I'm surprised to see fans of the 4RAT , haha the phone typed that but for laughs it'll stay ... 4EAT , and yes they have come a long ways from an EA71/81/82 dog to a fan favorite , to some degree. But up here used units still are pricey. And somewhat in demand in our state. No body inspections so cars staying on the road longer again. There's a local guy on Clist with one fairly fresh for $400. I'm thinking that's pretty great for my area and it's probably worth grabbing for stock to some of us. Good healthy banter on this one. Had a $500 lady owned beater '97 with older version 2.2 with manual AWD and tranny bearing chatter etc... Made me huge pay checks thru winter , way over 240k on the car , sold it to ctsuba who turned it over , car finally rotted out. That's like 5 full years of use from when I got it from the lady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 The stick makes it feel more sporty though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spazomatic Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Youve had "intimate contact" with hundreds of disproportionately sized mens genitalia? Eeeuw. Sorry man couldnt help it....im an adult chronologically but a juvenile at heart. I think to determine what you really want, you're going to need to drive a few to see how it suits you. But if you want to be able to sleep semi-comfortably, an outback is probably your best bet. Other nightime activities can be managed in most anything....especially in the woods, with nobody around....on top of the hood is a damn near ideal surface. Most things have quirks...and subarus are no exception. Once you know what year and body you want, you can easily familiarize yourself with any known problem spots. As long as you know what to look for, these things are relatively easy to mitigate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dp213 Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 I'm in Washington and I can get an auto tranny from a shop that imports them from Japan for about $400. That has a warranty and less than 50k miles on it. Manuals are impossible to find. Even for them. I also agree with the 95 legacy being the most reliable Subaru and easiest to maintain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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