frustrated2 Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 1995 EJ22, 215K miles. Hopefully the picture (pdf) loads correctly for reference. I discovered a pinhole in the pipe going to the bypass hose. What input can you give me? What would it take for me to replace this pipe myself and what other parts should be replaced while I'm in there? Seems a bit daunting to me seeing that I have never messed with the manifold before. I have done my own timing belt & water pump but that is the extent of my wrenching. If anybody knows the part number or what this pipe is called, please let me know. MSA5TCD96L5998_Pinhole.pdf Any advice or experiences, good or bad, is greatly appreciated. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frustrated2 Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) Sorry about that. I posted it on Imgur too. It is a page out of the Cooling section of the FSM. Link: http://i.imgur.com/4UbqZ79.png Edited January 23, 2015 by frustrated2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) If it were me, I'd replace the hose with a new one that's about 4" LONGER. Remove the old hose, and hit any rust or pitting with sand paper, a dremel with sand disc, or a mill file. I'd use a file here myself as the dremel can remove too much too quickly, the sand paper can get messy, but the file can knock the high spots down easily. If it's pitted, don't worry about it looking perfect. You just want the high spots knocked down so the new hose, which might be a little tight after getting past the 1st bend, doesn't get caught. Just work the new hose further over the metal pipe. Buy 2 new clamps and put one where the factory clamp is now, then put the 2nd clamp at the end of the hose so the pin hole can't leak past it. Conversely, you can cut the metal pipe with a hack saw and eliminate the 90 degree so it's just straight. Use a new hose for better sealing and wet the inside slightly (makes hose easier to work over the metal tube and push it over the pinhole section. Double clamp it about an 1" apart before and after the pinhole (that is important because the hose won't have a barb anymore, so it could blow off at some point as radiators get around 15-16 psi IIRC and the double clamps will prevent that if tight enough). If you do cut the pipe, take a small file and bevel the outer edge of the cut as well as the inner diameter of the metal tube. This will clean up and metal flashing, as well as prevent the tube end from cutting the hose. IF the pin hole is on a section of bare tube that's easy to get at, go to local parts store and buy 1' (pretty sure that's the minimum they will sell it and buy 2 clamps anyways. If it's a really minor pinhole, just cut 2" section off the new hose, razor blade a slit down on side, then slip it over the pinhole with slit facing opposite side. Clamp it with both clamps as close together as possible while have the screw on the opposite side of pinhole. Start car and bring to operating temps and see if it leaks. If the hole is larger or looks like it'll get larger, remove the old hose from the end, the new section you bought, cut 2-4" off one end, and slip that over the pipe until it completely covers the damaged section. Clamps at each end. Reconnect your heater hose. No matter what you end up doing, you'll probably need to bleed off the radiator a little bit as there will be air in your system from the pinhole, and even more if you have to pull that hose. If you notice the car's temp gauge climbing above the half way point all of a sudden (and you obviously are not leaking and have coolant in the reservoir) it means there is air in the line. Edited January 23, 2015 by Bushwick 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Number 1: http://opposedforces.com/parts/legacy/us_b11/type_5/cooling_system/water_pump/ If the rest of the pipe is really rusty go ahead and replace it. New is about $50 from Subaru. Used is much cheaper if you find a good one, or go to a u-pull yard and get one yourself. You can also familiarize yourself with the removal of the manifold. Manifold on these is easy because pretty much everything stays on the manifold. Remove intake tubing, disconnect fuel hoses over by the filter, two small coolant hoses, three plugs at the bellhousing, both ECT sensor plugs, , knock sensor plug, crank and cam sensor plugs and the oil pressure sender. A handful of vacuum hoses and then remove 8 bolts and lift the manifold off of the engine. You could replace the heater hoses while you're in there if you want. The crossover pipe o-rings can get brittle and start leaking, so those can be done with the manifold off if you want. Be careful with the bolts because they are skinny and tend to rust inside the bolt holes in the pipe. At the very least replace the bypass elbow and the two small diameter hoses that attach to the throttle body and the IACV, and connect to the bypass pipe and the crossover pipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frustrated2 Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 (edited) **Just now saw the link you provided for the part number. Thank you! Thanks Bushwick, thanks Fairtax4me.Much to digest and think over.To physically get at this area to do any patching, cutting, etc without removing the manifold seems impossible. I can currently access the pinhole with a 12" hemostat with a wad of shop towel just barely to dry and wipe the area clean. The only way to do so is going in at an angle from rear view mirror to driver's side CV joint, and with no wiggle room. Can't even fit my hand in there.I think removal of the manifold is the key. I wish it were not.The constant air in the system is explained and what I suspected was confirmed. I am also seeing the quick spike in the temp gauge as Bushwick mentioned. It all makes sense now.For u-pull-it practice and procurement, which years and models would work for a direct fit?If I don't score one and have to go the stealership route, what are the part numbers? Or do you think I can just show the FSM diagram I that have? Edited January 23, 2015 by frustrated2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I may have one of those coolant pipes available for a small fee - will have to check the short block that is sitting in my garage a little later. If it is still there, it was pulled, inspected, cleaned up and repainted before reinstallation - was supposed to be a replacement motor for a bad 2.5 in a forester - forester had too many other issues and the project was never finished... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frustrated2 Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 heartless: if you do have this on-hand, it would be a great turn of events for me. Please let me know. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frustrated2 Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 I just called my local u-pull-it and they have a '93 legacy in the lot. According to the parts catalog provided above, the '93 pipe is the same as mine ('95). They couldn't tell me what is in it or in what condition - the whole engine could be gone or this pipe could be shot. I'm going to take a look this afternoon. If it is there I'll extract it; worse case is the pipe is shot but at least I familiarized myself with the process. heartless: I'll update this thread so if I get lucky and get a pipe you won't have to look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 If it's no good, Heartless is good people and a regular here, you can trust her and stuff she's offering. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frustrated2 Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 So, I found one and the initial look over seems OK. I want to take a steel brush over two spots to see closer, but I'm hopeful. Good experience at the yard but not 100% simulation as the engine had many parts ripped off already. took me about 1.5 hours; i'm thinking with my car it will be 2.5 to 3 hours start to finish. One thing I learned is that the power steering has to be disconnected like the FSM says; there's just no getting around it (can PS fluid be recycled back into the system if I manage to keep it clean?. Same with the main crossover coolant pipe; the way the pipe I'm working with is shaped it is impossible to "thread" it through underneath the main coolant crossover. I may be able to get away with leaving the A/C pully on, we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdjdc Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I have done this repair. You will definitely want to replace the crossover pipe o rings and you will have to get them from Subaru as they are an odd type. If you don't replace them you will end up with a leak and have to do the job twice. Unbolt the power steering pump and move it to the side. Don't disconnect it so that you won't have to bleed it and all. Unbolt the intake and lift it up and then unbolt the crossover pipe. Once you have that done, you can get to the pipe in question. You will have to finagle it a bit, but you will get it into place. Prepare for some frustration and you will be ahead of the game. If you run into any problems you can feel free to call me 804-393-0516 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwick Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 (edited) I have done this repair. You will definitely want to replace the crossover pipe o rings and you will have to get them from Subaru as they are an odd type. If you don't replace them you will end up with a leak and have to do the job twice. Unbolt the power steering pump and move it to the side. Don't disconnect it so that you won't have to bleed it and all. Unbolt the intake and lift it up and then unbolt the crossover pipe. Once you have that done, you can get to the pipe in question. You will have to finagle it a bit, but you will get it into place. Prepare for some frustration and you will be ahead of the game. I'd edit this post and remove the phone number from it else you want every spam service calling you as it'll stay in the archived post forever. Send him a PM with it Edited January 24, 2015 by Bushwick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I knew there was something I was forgetting before. Power steering. Just unbolt the pump from the bracket (3 bolts) and remove the two bolts that secure the lines to the bracket on the manifold, then pick the pump up and just set if off to the side. Hey Doc! Glad to see you're still around here! I hadn't seen you post anything for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 frustrated - just let me know either way. Bushwick - thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frustrated2 Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 Awesome info. Thank you! I didn't see that you could move PS pump out of the way without disconnecting the lines. I will order coolant pipe o-rings and intake manifold gaskets. I have plenty of heater hose on hand and hose clamps. Anything I'm missing? Maybe PS pump gasket or o-ring (haven't looked at that part of the FSM yet) (heartless: I'll be in touch if I hit a snag and need some guidance) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthguy Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 If you unbolt the power steering pump and just move it to the side, you aren't opening any part of it up to access an o-ring so nothing to change. Just flop it to the left (see the youtube video by Briansmobile1 where he removes an engine from an Outback. He goes through manifold removal including the power steering pump). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Awesome info. Thank you! I didn't see that you could move PS pump out of the way without disconnecting the lines. I will order coolant pipe o-rings and intake manifold gaskets. I have plenty of heater hose on hand and hose clamps. Anything I'm missing? Maybe PS pump gasket or o-ring (haven't looked at that part of the FSM yet) (heartless: I'll be in touch if I hit a snag and need some guidance) Coolant pipe o-rings replace with 1-9/16th diam., 1/8th" thick, buna rubber o-ring. $.50 at any auto parts store. Pipe from any non -turbo EJ will work. EJ18,EJ22,EJ25 doesn't matter. Biggest headache for these can be the EGR pipe if your car has it. 17mm Flare nut wrench highly recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frustrated2 Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Thank you all! Reporting back with an update: Success was achieved. (Gloyale, you were right on with that 17mm nut, ugh) Had to rush to get everything back together before the blizzard, but got it done and did it right. I'm sending out internet fist-bumps to you all... thanks again! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 glad to hear you got it resolved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Glad you got it fixed! Yes that EGR flare nut can be a pain. I bought a $35 17mm flare nut wrench from Mac tools just for that. The first time I had to mess with one of those I had a cheapo flare wrench from advancezone that wouldn't touch it. It just slipped around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 wow, nice job cranking that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frustrated2 Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 wow, nice job cranking that out. Wouldn't have been possible without the advice and guidance from this message board. It is such a good feeling going from dead in the driveway to back on the road as a daily-driver. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I just found out I have a hole in the EXACT same location in that heater pipe on my 1992 Legacy 2.2! I removed the intake system totally to gain "easy" access to the heater pipe. When I removed the hose clamp from the hose that attaches the defective pipe to the water pump, the metal spigot on the water pump broke off and remained in the end of the hose! So now I have to replace the water pump itself, too! Anyway, does anyone (Heartless?)have one of these pipes handy that they want to sell? Call me lazy, but I don't relish the idea of searching for one in a junkyard and then going through all the work (intake removal) to access it. From an ethical standpoint, it would be a shame to dismantle all that stuff and then leave it open to the elements once I have pilidged the motor for this silly little water pipe. And, no, I am not noble enough to reassemble it for protection. Anyone? Thanks, Mike V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 i think that metal pipe is part of the water pump, right? you're talking about the small pipe in this picture of a new water pump?http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/ms18IYkcUpPusNP-va1f_vA.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikevan10 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Yes, that is what I am trying to say - When I went to remove the hose from that small pipe on the water pump, it broke off where it enters the water pump housing casting and remained in the hose. So now, in addition to the pin hole leak at the other end of the heater pipe (exact same issue as the original poster), I have to replace the water pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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