ScottAust Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Hello all, I need some help with a ej25 to ej22 swap. Before I get into my problem I will say that I know the obvious answer - yes I am in Australia so yes that is why the wiring is upside down. My wife's 9th month 1998 gen2 Outback EJ25 DOHC has the head gasket problem and a knock starting in the bottom end. I am up to the point of removing all the accessories etc and unbolting and the engine is sitting there ready to come out. After reading all the posts on doing a swap for a EJ22 this seemed like a better option and far cheaper than rebuilding. Everything just fell into place as I found (just up the road no less) a 1st month 1995 Liberty gen 2 (that's what a legacy is called here) with EJ22 auto that has less than 50,000 miles. So every post I have read says what I have got is the ideal set up. I've seen the quotes over again that its a direct plug and play swap and the only issue is the power steering line bracket. Right ? NO WRONG !! well at least for my definition of direct swap. There are a few minor issues with vacuum hoses but nothing to cause a problem. I have this motor ready for removal too but as I was pulling everything off I noticed the wiring issues. (note - I have taken the intake manifolds off both to get at the 4 flex plate bolts easily ) Issue 1 - On the donor car there are 3 square plugs. a 16 pin, 12 pin and a 6 pin. These were on the bell housing at the 2 o'clock position. On the outback the 16 and 12 pin plugs are near the battery so nearly 2 foot away ! there is no 6 pin plug there? Issue 2 - There is another round plug with 8 pins on the outback, it comes from the manifold and plugs into a socket bolted on the front of the right hand strut tower. This one is not on the donor car at all. Is it the same as the extra 6 pin square plug on the donor ? I don't really want to cut up the harness and extend it to fit so what I am thinking is to swap all the wiring from the EJ25 manifold to the EJ22 as it looks all the same except for where the connectors go to the body. Hopefully someone who has done one of these swaps can help me on this. So the basic question is will that work? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capn_r Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I'm not familiar with the differences from the US engines in your market but can't you use the EJ25 intake maniflold on the EJ22 without transferring everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankosolder2 Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 No, the ej25 manifold is a different shape and won't fit the ej22 heads/block. It sounds like your donor engine might have (what would be in the USA) the 1994 and earlier style wiring harness. The US market 1995 legacy harness IS plug and play in a US spec 1998 Outback, I speak from personal experience with that. I'm a little confused by your reference to "two o clock." Is that facing the front of the engine or looking from the inside of the car out? In an LHD 1995-1998 US spec car, the battery is on the drivers side and the engine wiring harness connectors are on the passenger's side. You might be able to merge the two engine harnesses, I would suggest carefully inspecting the connectors on all the individual sensors/devices (TPS, IAC, coolant temp, injectors, etc) to see how well they match your Outback 2.5 engine harness. If there are just one or two different connectors, you may be able to do a few minor splices and have it work. Make sure the TPS has the same number of wires, US spec should have 3. The earlier US spec legacies had a 4 wire TPS. Good luck, Nathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I'm pretty sure you can use the EJ25 wiring on the EJ22. The position and wiring harnesses to cam and crank sensor etc. are the same. Double check the connectors to IACV, ignition coil and TPS as there are some subtle differences. If they dont match, you can either splice wires or swap over that component. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 yes - i would attempt to swap wiring harnesses - that can be done on 1995+ vehicles in the US. you're dealing with something else though so i'm uncertain how much is the same. another option would be to just find an actual EJ22 intake manifold from 1995 - 1998 (or whatever years in your market are the same as 1995-1998 US market EJ22's). that manifold would bolt to your current EJ22 and plug and play into the EJ25 harness on the vehicle...or that's how it would work here again i sholuld say. you can check the plugs/pin outs before purchasing. don't the down under guys complain all the time about safety inspections and engineering certifications and how hard it is to swap or modify vehicles there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottAust Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 Thanks for that info. Just to clear a couple of those questions- I have tried to keep the right hand vs left hand drive confusion out of it by not using drivers or passenger side references. When sitting in the car looking forward The battery is on the left side, the 2 o'clock reference is the same. The donor car is complete so I have the correct manifold for it already. Interesting more for you lot in the US neither of them have the EGR pipe. As for the inspection, engineering and mod problems here, this is not an issue. If I was putting a 350 chev in it it would be. It's just a standard car otherwise so as long as it all looks "factory" under the bonnet, If someone looks at at unless they know it won't be questioned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Swap wiring from EJ25D manifold onto the EJ22e manifold. If TPS are different swap 2.5 throttle body onto the 2.2 manifold also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottAust Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 It's done ! To answer my own question from the start of this thred (and thanks to those who commented) yes just swap the wiring over and all the plugs fit where they should. The only difference was the 25 had an extra thingo that the 22 didnt, a round black thing with a wire coming off it and a bolt going through the middle. It was bolted on the block just near the heater hose connections. I just bolted it on so whatever it does it must be doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 That's the knock sensor. Make sure it's clocked so it's not hitting the block where the wire comes out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 A knock sensor. It detects pinging, and the ECU will retard ignition timing in order to correct and prevent the condition from ruining the engine. Pinging can break pistons if left unchecked. I think your wiring difference was the difference between an OBD1 and OBD2 car. By 95 model year the Legacy in the US was OBD2 compliant, but in other markets that change didn't happen until later, sometimes as late as 98 from what I can tell. (For most major automakers. Some markets still have not mandated emissions control, and smaller makers may not have OBD systems at all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottAust Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 The swap is done and the 22 is running. Thank you to all that made comments here and in general on this site. Just about everything I needed to know I searched and found the answer. Considering I am not a mechanic, only have basic tools and have never removed an engine by myself before, I am very pleased with myself ! 25 out of the outback, 22 out of the donor, 22 into the outback then put all the right parts strewn around the shed back together, all in 3 days. Just to clarify that- a day being 4 to 6 hours in between other things like kids and other household duties. So 1 day each to strip the motors ready to be pulled. On the third day it took 2 hours to pull both motors and put one back ( amazed myself how easy this actually went) then about 6 hours to put everything back together. Only real problem was I bent the metal cover on the bottom that covers the flywheel etc. And it was touching. So when I started it up it sounded like world war three and frightened the s••• out of me. I was able to undo the engine mounts and Jack it up enought to straighten it out. There are a couple of hiccups which I will start another post for. ( cold start and thermo fans staying on ) when for a short drive and it runs perfectly. Also worth mentioning the 25 had a bad head gasket and seemed tired with 205,000 kms on it. The 22 has only done 80,000 kms and been properly maintained by a Subaru dealer every 5000 kms. I know people say the 22 lakes powerin comparison but not in this case. Maybe just the difference between a good and bad motor ? My message here is if I can do it .... It can't be that hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Cold start problem and fans running could be the ECT sensor. Its hard to see and easily missed when plugging everything back in. Should be below the #3 intake runner just under where the wiring harness runs under the manifold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 good job indeed, first time, nice hit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottAust Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Which one is the ECT ?i have no idea what all these bits are called or are for ! There were 3 conections in that area, one brown plug going to the water pipe (that goes on a diagonal to the top radiator hose) . A single spade conevtion going to the block And another plug (think it was blue) going to a thing on the manifold directly above these 2 I did connect all of them but maybe one came off when I put the manifold back on ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 The ECT is the brown (brick red?) one on the crossover pipe. There should be another one--can't remember the color--right beside it that serves the Temp Gauge on the dash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Right. ECT sensor is the brownish color plug (2 wires) on the crossover pipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottAust Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Ok that makes sense. I know now that redish brown connector is the problem. All the other connectors clicked when they went back together. That one just pushed in. I didn't think much of it at the time other than it seemed a bit loose. I'll put money on that has comie off when putting the manifold back on ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottAust Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 Got home from work and with a torch looked down through the maze of wires and tubes and there was the little brown conection sitting all by its lonesome ! Plugged it back in ( that was a story of contortion and swearing ) and turned the key to on. No fans ! Hit the key and it fired straight up. It's been an adventure for a novice but it looks and runs just like a bought one !! Thanks to all for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I've never attempted something as major as a swap. Curious as to what it took beyond the usual tools. I guess what I'm wondering about is for the actual lifting out/dropping in of the engines. Borrowed an engine hoist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottAust Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 When I say I only used basic hand tools I should clarify that I have a full upright tool box. This is a top quality Sidchtome set (cost $2000 about 5 years ago) so has everything like long and short sockets in 1/2 and 3/8 drive in 12 point and a set of 6 point as well. For example there are slot of 14mm nuts so I have about 6 different spanners in that size, open end, ring, offset ring, a set of ratchet ring spanners. The point being I had a tool to fit all the tight spots. The engine hoist was from the local hire shop. $62 hire for half a day, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthguy Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 An engine crane/hoist is the easiest, especially if you are removing/installing by yourself. You can also rig up a chain hoist above the car if you have a decently strong setup above (garage/rafter boards). These engines aren't that heavy (well under 500 lbs, only a couple hundred even with heads on). I've heard some burly people on here talking about how they picked one up with one hand and tossed it in the back of their haulin' scoob (or something close to that). If you can borrow a hoist that is the best (luckily a neighbor of mine had one so I rolled it down the street!). Here in the US, you can get a cheap hoist (e.g. from Harbor Freight) for as little as $130 when it is on sale (which pays for itself quickly compared to renting one as described by ScottAust). When I removed my EJ22 (to service the oil separator plate) I only needed the usual hand tools and the engine hoist. I did replace my cam/crank seals and a Lisle seal puller ($12) was worth gold for ease of use and frustration savings, but definitely not required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottAust Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 I don't plan on removing engines as a hobby ! I was quoted $2500 to fix the EJ25 by a mechanic so when I found and then bought the whole 95 car for $400 the idea of swapping the engines myself was a no brainer. The extra $60 for hoist hire was nothing in the big scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Too late, you're an expert now! Nice, when an opportunity like that comes up, you have to jump on it. Agreed about the hoist, one of those would be nice to have but take up too much space for something that would rarely get used. Picking up engines and throwing them over the shoulder eh? Sounds like Andre the Giant in "The Princess Bride" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottAust Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 The EJ25 is sitting on a spare wheel in the shed. I can't pick it up but I can move it around on a hand trolley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottAust Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Too late your an expert now! Hahsha But ..... I do now have a EJ 25 sitting there in need of a rebuild and while reading these posts a frankenmotor did get my interest ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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