lilySapphire Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Hey guys. I'm pretty sure I know the problem but wanted a 2nd or 3rd opinion before I spend more money on the problem. 1983 Brat. Past month or so, it would sometimes not start right up, just a clicking sound. If I turned it a few times, it would start up. It's been getting worse and now I have to turn it like 50 times. It hasn't let me down yet and sometimes it gets a little juice and tries to start but then doesn't and goes back to the clicking. When I was doing tune up a few months ago, I noticed that Ignition coil was seeping some oil and my battery cables were mangled. So, I bought new ones and put those in this weekend (thinking mabye it was some bad connections) I also took a wire brush to the connection to the starter itself. Still the same problem. I know the battery and alternator are good, now I've got good connections but still just get the clicking and it's getting worse. I read through the forums that I could find and one question that came up is if the clicking is coming from the Dash area, or from the Engine bay. I'm pretty certain it's coming from the Bay. So, I think it's the starter?? Anyone else have any input? I'm new to working on my own cars so please give detailed troubleshooting steps if needed. Also, any recommendations on Starters?? It's a Fuji in there now and I can't seem to find a replacement Fuji. Thanks, guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Test 1. Use a piece of wire from battery + to the little tab on back of the starter. If it engages , it's likely the notorious weak connection somewhere in the harness or ignition switch. Fix by adding a relay. Other reason for click no starter is a contact inside the solenoid which can be replaced. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilySapphire Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 Thanks, Dave. Electrical stuff kinda freaks me out. Can you tell me if during your test noted above, should I disconnect the negative side of battery before test? and What kind of wire? just any electrical wire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/149308-no-start-issues-for-1990-loyale-resolved-added-starter-relay/?fromsearch=1 Follow that link for all your answers and the solution. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilySapphire Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 RAD! Thanks, I75eya. Exactly what I was looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Hi Lily, You need the ground connected for this kind of test. The wire to test with anything from 18AWG to 10AWG is good enough / not too heavy to deal with. I usually use pieces from a spare parts harness, so one end has a connector that fits on the starter. The other, just touch to the battery. Also a cheap backup starting trick I used for a while when first dealing with the intermittent no start problem I had. Put the key in run position, touch wire, remove wire, drive. you could also use a temporary test clip on the end of a wire, and clip it to the terminal on the starter. The end you touch to the battery will make a spark, but it isn't anything to be scared of. Just don't touch the metal. Cuts hurt worse than any shock I've ever gotten, and the worst ones I've felt didn't come off a car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilySapphire Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) oye, so I bought the BOsch relay kit mentioned, it seemed super simple to install, gave it a try and it did the usual click with no attempt to turn over, then any try after that I didn't get the click any more. I double checked my battery again, verified that the ground I had for the relay was good then I checked the 15 (amp?) fuse that was in the relay and it was blown. So, I put in a new one. Again, one click, then nothing after that.. fuse blown again. I must've done something wrong on the setup. Either way, still getting the click on the try that blows the fuse so I'm going to take the relay out. I've checked my setup over and over again and I have no idea what I did wrong, it's so simple. I guess I'm going to try out the suggestions that Dave gave above. Maybe it really is my starter..? I bought new contacts "Just incase." but I'm not quite sure how to get my starter off, I think one of the bolts is on the under side. Link to pics of setup: http://imgur.com/a/VZJM6 Edited January 31, 2015 by lilySapphire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 oye, so I bought the BOsch relay kit mentioned, it seemed super simple to install, gave it a try and it did the usual click with no attempt to turn over, then any try after that I didn't get the click any more. I double checked my battery again, verified that the ground I had for the relay was good then I checked the 15 (amp?) fuse that was in the relay and it was blown. So, I put in a new one. Again, one click, then nothing after that.. fuse blown again. I must've done something wrong on the setup. Either way, still getting the click on the try that blows the fuse so I'm going to take the relay out. I've checked my setup over and over again and I have no idea what I did wrong, it's so simple. I guess I'm going to try out the suggestions that Dave gave above. Maybe it really is my starter..? I bought new contacts "Just incase." but I'm not quite sure how to get my starter off, I think one of the bolts is on the under side. There are two bolts....a 17mm and a 14 if memory serves....its been a few years. I did it a few times on my old car and everything can be accessed from above. Just make sure to disconnect the battery before taking the starter out. At this point in time I'm going to say your contacts are probably no good anymore. I wish i had seen this earlier to save you from the trouble of trying out a relay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilySapphire Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 Thanks, Hatch. I've got the manual if I get too stuck on getting the starter out. I'll update y'all on how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilySapphire Posted January 31, 2015 Author Share Posted January 31, 2015 Yep. I took out the relay. Pulled the starter (One bolt on top corner, one on lower diagnal corner but accessible from top) pulled the cover of starter and replaced the connections and plunger. Had some minor issues with a stuck bolt but nothing too major. Put starter back on and BAM!! Brat-Lee (or, the General as I sometimes call him.) is starting up every time. Thanks for all the help and troubleshooting assistance, guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 relay is still a good idea. The ignition switches get flaky. If the fuse is popping you installed the relay wrong. Should be by # Batt power # 30 Out to starter solenoid #87 Ground # 85 Signal from switch (oe starter wire) # 86 unused #87a 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilySapphire Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 relay is still a good idea. The ignition switches get flaky. If the fuse is popping you installed the relay wrong. Should be by # Batt power # 30 Out to starter solenoid #87 Ground # 85 Signal from switch (oe starter wire) # 86 unused #87a I posted pics of my setup, just like the diagram shows. Also, you mention Unused #87a.. I don't have this wire. I have the yellow one which I grounded (and tested the ground) the red one goes to the starter on the same bolt that the battery cable is hooked to, the blue wire goes to the ignition cable that normally goes to the starter, and then the black wire completes the connection to the starter. Now, all wires are used. If you could tell me how my setup is wrong and keeps blowing the fuse, I'll attempt to put it back in. Otherwise it just seems a waste of time for me. See the link I posted above to pics of the setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Bosch relay terminal 86 is what the original ignition switch wire leads to. Throwing a new starter at it may work for awhile but chances are eventually it'll start clicking again. I went through that whole song and dancea couple months ago. Put a new battery, new alternator, new starter motor. Each one of these fixes only worked for a short while and I was back to a clicking ignition. Changing the ignition switch contacts is a pain so I opted for the relay. One year later and still no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilySapphire Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 On the diagram for the relay, it shows 86 as the yellow wire and says to ground it. Also, the connector at the end is a metal loop, nothing that I could connect to the starter or the ignition. I guess if that time comes, I'll just pay someone to install it correctly since I can't make heads or tails of what you all are trying to tell me about the relay. I seriously checked the diagram so many times and my setup looks right. I guess it would be worth the 100 bucks or whatever to have someone else do it since I'm too dumb for it. Link to pics of setup: http://imgur.com/a/VZJM6 And, just for the record, I didn't replace the starter, just the contacts. Parts were 13 dollars and definitly needed replacing, they were extremely mishapen with jagged edges and worn almost all the way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Yes, the won out contact will cause the same problem. I've replaced a few of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 The confusion stems from the relay you have used. Its not your standard 5 pin Bosch style relay that is used in our examples. https://www.google.com/search?q=bosch%20relay&client=ms-android-metropcs-us&espv=1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sboxchip=Images&sa=X&ei=SkjRVLu7Csz2yQTVlILgBw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAA&biw=360&bih=559 That's a Google image link showing the style relay that is used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Here's a great picture of the pins numbered right on the relay. http://www.ripper1.com/tech/wiring/relaybot.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee2 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 LilySapphire's wiring looks correct. I used the same kit and it is pretty straight forward. If the fuse is blowing then there must be another reason, but I don't know what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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