Changing my Coolant

[DaveT]

Don't be in a rush to take it for a drive. WORK all the air out. Maybe go through a run cycle or 2.

 

When cool, check and note the level in the recovery tank. Sharply squeeze the upper hose. Listen for the jiggle pin and gurgling of air. NOTE it. RUN till warm, watching for signs of overnormal temperature. When cool, re check the above. Do this (air and level check) every time before driving, until you see that things are stable.

 

Don't open the cap unless the hose test indicates very large air pocket. Small amounts of air should work thier way out over several drive cycles.

[stackman1]

Good News Boys - so far so good.  Gauge not spiking.  Worked on the bubbles. I'll know more after the weekend.  Pete

[Fairtax4me]

I re-use coolant all the time. Not a big deal at all as long as the container you drained it into is fairly clean. Use cheesecloth in a funnel or a wire strainer to filter out any big chunks like leaves that might have fallen in. Pour it out of the catch container and into the jug it originally came in.

 

If you already added coolant conditioner, just re-use the coolant that has that in it already and there's no need to add more.

[stackman1]

Just to close out and ask a final question:

 

I did not seat my new thermostat properly into the bottom of water pump housing:

 

So I got this after a mere 5 miles - 

 

I pulled it off and knew it wasn't seated well when it fell out.  So for the hell of it I tested it before re-inserting:

 

Opened fine at correct temps - not sure if you can see opening...

 

No problem with cooling and temp - everything running great except:

When I had to fill my block with coolant - I did the suggested thing and used the upper radiator hose.  I tended to twist it so the opening was up.  What I am now finding is my radiator hose (which appears to be a composite of three hoses - OEM - as far as I know) is now finding its way to the radiator fan blades.

You can probably see the white chafing when I pull it away.  it appears the twisting may have unstuck the adhesive(?) that bound the three piece hose together - making it longer - and thereby allowing it to gravitate and contact fan blade.

 

 

Thoughts? I swung by my mechanics today but he was closed - I wanted to ask him his opinion about a logical fix and also for him to throw my car up on the racks and give me his opinion on how dangerous my rust situation is.....but he was closed

 

 

Anybody wanna chime in?

Edited November 8, 2016 by stackman1

[forester2002s]

I've never heard of a 3-piece radiator-hose before.

And I've never seen a hose loose enough, and close enough to touch the fan blades.

It looks as if you don't have the correct radiator, and someone has rigged-up an extra long hose to teach the radiator.

Have you compared this set-up with other similar models, or with a picture in the Factory Service Manual?

 

You definitely need to keep that hose away from the fan. Use some zip-ties or wire to pull the hose away from the fan and towards the engine.

Edited November 8, 2016 by forester2002s

[stackman1]

Well I am the lone owner - 15 years and counting.  

Don't ever recall having a dealer or anyone else replace my radiator hose.  

But I agree it is strange.  Looks like I can buy one from Napa for about about $17 bucks.  Weird???

 

https://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/NBG9128/NBG9128_0226480167

[1 Lucky Texan]

I had to trim 2 of 3 of the aftermarket (Gates) hoses I bought for the wife's 03 H6. If one wasn't trimmed - likely chafing would have resulted.

[Fairtax4me]

If that hose has been replaced before, then it likely is too long on the engine end. Aftermarket hoses almost always have to be trimmed to fit properly. One reason I often spend the extra $5-10 on genuine OE hoses from the dealer.

 

Try loosening the clamp slightly on the radiator end and twist that end slightly clockwise and see if it pulls away from the fans. You could also loosen the clamp at the engine end and try pushing the hose further down onto the outlet pipe.

 

The hose is probably only one piece. It looks Like that is a protective sleeve around that section to prevent chafing of the hose against the line from the steering pump.

[stackman1]

Well - I pulled the old hose off and it was the OEM - it wasn't three pieces it had a protective sleeve as suggested.  I tried twisting it away on the radiator side but it was till too close to fan.  The inlet end of hose was flush against the notch so I just put the new Napa hose on.  Fit like a glove.  No sleeve but not close to anything hot or spinning.  Educational bit of maintenance for me.

 

The one question that remains is - when I had the thermostat in wrong - and drove the 5 miles and instantly went red.  Does that likely mean that the improperly seated thermostat allowed no coolant into engine block and the coolant in the block just started to boil?  Or was there even coolant in the block?

 

Here is my new nose:

 

Edited November 8, 2016 by stackman1

[1 Lucky Texan]

my 'guess' is, the frame of the t'stat may have been in a 'bind'.

 

I'd like to point out however, many people have trouble burping all the air out of the cooling system and, there could have been an air-block contributing to the problem. We may never know.

[stackman1]

Tex - 

 

I'm quite sure it was my problem when I put the thermostat in.  I didn't check the gasket.  I suspect it was off track in places because when I unbolted the housing, the thermostat just fell in my catch pan.  After I tested the thermostat and properly made sure the gasket was in the deep groove all around - it sat in the water pump housing without me having to hold it. Since re-seating the thermostat - no temp problems.  Just this hose thing and that seems fixed now!  Thanks 

[DaveT]

Watch the coolant level and air in the upper hose like a hawk, at least for a few weeks.

[Fairtax4me]

That's a vertical core radiator, with the fill neck and upper hose outlet on the same end tank, which is one of the updated designs that helps prevent airlock when filling the system with coolant. Shouldn't have any trouble getting the air out with that radiator design due to the raised portion between the hose and filler neck, even if you had just filled through the radiator and hadn't filled through the upper hose.

 

The thermostat could have been bound as you suggested, and caused the overheating you had previously.

[subnz]

No matter  how carefully / slowly ,   the cooling system is refilled ( through top radiator hose or through radiator cap )   There  WILL  be air trapped in there somewhere.

 

The best and most effective way of releasing this air is to run the engine for 20 to 30 minutes with the radiator cap   OFF   (topping up when necessary keeping radiator full ) - using a funnel the right size in radiator cap opening - to make it less messy.  Special radiator fill funnels are available at aftermarket parts shops.

 

The reason for this is ;   as the system comes up to temperature ie thermostat opens and circulates coolant (pump)  throughout cooling system pushing air out and releasing it at the highest point - the open radiator cap.   [ It is a well known basic scientific fact that air rises in water under motion.]

 

The heating system is on  a secondary circuit so that is the reason why its necessary to run engine for this period of time to do a good job.

 

Once satisfied replace radiator cap , stop engine  and top up expansion tank to correct level   so it can draw (siphon) coolant back to keep radiator full as it cools down.

 

Once engine / cooling system is  cold  - check how much the level of expansion tank has dropped.  and  also take radiator cap OFF  to check that its full to neck - step that radiator cap presses onto. 

It may not  be so top up if necessary and top up expansion tank to correct level if necessary again.  ( The reason for this is that if there is even a little air still  in system the siphon from expansion tank may not draw water / work  effectively when cooling down.- to keep radiator full)

 

Air WILL NOT enter the coolant  when taking radiator cap off a cold engine to check radiator level.

 

Also it is very unwise to leaving coolant in for 5 years  Its the quickest way to reduce head gasket life.

 

Owners manual  ( Subaru Japan) recommends that coolant be changed / replaced  every 2 years.

 

This method works (ie 40 years + doing this - ex farmer)  for all vehicles not just Subarus, other cars   tractors trucks   etc.

Edited November 9, 2016 by subnz

[1 Lucky Texan]

^^^^ wisdom right there.

 

coupla small things that I've done based on reading and experience.

 

put 2 small zip-ties or a small clamp on the overflow tube at the nipple on the radiator's neck. it may be possible for air to be drawn in as the rubber ages and gets less compliant. Pull the other end of that tube up outta the o'flow tank and cut he end at a 45* angle to help prevent the bottom possibly being blocked. A new radiator cap may be a good idea as well.

[iriejedi]

I thought the red antifreeze (asian) available at any auto parts store is the recommended type for subarus. Its about $18.00/gal and is supposed to be less harmful to the head gaskets.

I wish the original topic #2 question of antifreeze types for 2.5L Subaru's 2000 - 2004 was reviewed and answered in more depth rather than everyone arguing about how to burp the system.... No one ever really approched an answer to the "Asian" brand coolent verse other brands or even just the green Walmart glycol. Sounds like anything can be used that has "long life polymers" in it.

[somick]

I wish the original topic #2 question of antifreeze types for 2.5L Subaru's 2000 - 2004 was reviewed and answered in more depth rather than everyone arguing about how to burp the system.... No one ever really approched an answer to the "Asian" brand coolent verse other brands or even just the green Walmart glycol. Sounds like anything can be used that has "long life polymers" in it.

 

About four-five months ago I added a Red Toyota antifreeze to my 2010 Forester.

 

So far so good. There is no gelling. The coolant level stays between the lines in the expansion tank.

 

 

Sam

Edited June 8, 2017 by somick

[DaveT]

Just to add - for anyone who may come across this, you must also check that coolant is in the upper radiator hose. Going only by the recovery tank invites blown headgaskets.

 

This is done by sharply squeezing the hise, and listening for the jiggle pin and gurgling of air.

[man&chico]

Okay..first I had hernia's, heart-attack, and next, amnesia. And now, I got a Subaru..05 Forester. So I'm on this thing with the coolant change; which is totally shocking with all the nebulosities amd minutiaes involved with it. But that is not even the worst of it. The seller was not forthcoming about certain facts of keen interest concerning the vehicle's past; and even stooped to manufacturing a story, with the design of putting me off guard to complete a quick-sale. Which he did! However, I digress.

I emptied the ORANGE stuff out of it, not leaving anything to chance, as we live at a 7000-ft elevation, and don't want the block cracking up. After 3 times dropping the 1.5 gal's, I switched to distilled water, having read about all of that jazz. So I got it up to temp driving it to drop off a copy of D'Souza's AMERICA I had borrowed from friends. I guess I had all the air out this time, as it did not overheat! In fact the thermostat neck and the hose to the radiator remained cool and always did - is that normal? All the other hoses and subsidary cooling system lines get pretty hot but that part of it is just tepid to the touch. Again, is that right? Heater was vulcanic, at the same time, whereas when it overheated - to the red almost in a few minutes -  the heater blew cold. Also, I have filled it, runned it, drained 4 times, and it's still coming out orange with tiny debris..sort of rust-like. Is it recommended to flush with Prestone? I have some! I'd do it!! But I wait on you experts to give me the come-on signal.

One more thing I would like to hear some opinions on..When I start it, there is a pronounced knocking noise near the front driver side coming out of the time-belt zone, and also possibly from the front of the motor (although it might be bleeding the noise from whatever it is that the outer belts are turning). There appears to be no coolant leak and it doesn't sound like a bad water-pump, just a pretty noticable knocking for 4-6 minutes before quieting down.

Now on a satellite topic, but one that is calculated to excite interest..I battled that thing with the factory alarm-system (seller did not give us a fob w/remote, only another story), searched y-tube, and found out enough to get the 7 screws out and remove the glove-box and unplug that keyless entry thing and win a temporary peace from that hidden tandem horn system. And when I pulled the covers behind the fog-lights I found out that the horns are there with the fog-light on the d-side. So I un-plugged them (I may strip 'em off and put them on my 74 Pinto wagon, just for laughs) and feeling confident in a lasting peace, I replugged the module in and after a 5 second waiting period - about as long as it takes to get asylum at the border by t-j - I got a mini-blast by the little horn on the top by the fire wall. Re-unplugged the k-e module but the car was disabled from starting, untill I uplug the other harness close to the radio labeled SECURITY SYST. and now I am free once again. I wait for responses, with bated breath..or 'baited' if you prefer!

[idosubaru]

headgaskets - they can come and go intermittently so they're hard to discern immediately from other causes. 

knocking: 
1. piston slap - look it up
2. timing tensioner knocking
3. rod knock

[man&chico]

Thanks, Idos..I think in retrospect, I'd have just put a little money into the 87 Wagoneer, and settle for the 16 miles per gallon.

[idosubaru]

probably - used car purchasing is a gamble.  you get much better deals assessing the seller rather than the vehicle.  find out exactly why they're selling and look for a real, unfabricated, unforced reason for sale and you'll end up with a much better deal. 

sounds like previous owners limped that thing around.  no telling what it's been through and what it'll take to keep it running with all the orange you're describing coming out of the coolant. 

hopefully you'll work out the kinks and have something reasonable to work with when you're done, good luck.

 

[man&chico]

Yeah, just wqanted to believe the guy, all the warnings there..couldn't unlock TTM (Total Trust Mode). The engine and car look  like new, just all these issues. Big question RIGHT NOW is?, lower hose and thermostat housing are very cool, with operating temp noraml and staedy..heater blows hot,HOT - can the radiator be doing that great a job that water exits barely tepid? Thanks (should I pull the stat before i put the expensive proprietary a-frz? do I need a flange gasket for that? TA! thanks again)

[man&chico]

btw, I like old sh*t!

[man&chico]

Just got the air out and on the road..everything good. Took/ put the extra mile on the test drive, got back in driveway and lower hose more like hot now. Dropped the 1.5 in a refrig. produce-drawer and it came out close to clear this time. So. guess I'll go ahead and charge her, see what happens> Thanks for the free consultation/ valuable assistance, --crisinbigbear(california), signing off! off to work on a 1930 Buck's combo wood/gas-burning stove; and lots of J-B Weld