2003 Outback Acquisition Advice Needed

[BluetoE]

Hi guys!  Long time no see.  I was able to do a successful EJ22 swap into my 98 OBW five years ago and it's still on the road.  Thanks again for all of the great info here.  I couldn't have done it without y'all.  Here's the thread from back then:  http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/99012-another-successful-ej22-swap-into-98-obw/?do=findComment&comment=833802

 

I still have my 98, but it needs a duty-c solenoid and a wheel bearing or two so it's rolling kinda rough.  The engine still purrs like a kitten but the torque bind is wreaking havoc on the CVs etc.  I plan on fixing it once the weather warms up a little down here.  I'll keep the car forever.  I love it that much.

 

Yesterday I was talking to a friend of mine that has a 2003 L.L. Bean H6 3.0 OBW with 220K miles sitting in his driveway collecting dust.  He has a new car and isn't driving it now.  He is willing to sell it to me cheap.  I have no idea what all it needs, but if I can get it for under $1000 I think it will be totally worth it.  He said it runs good but might need "springs or shocks or something".  That sounds like a squeak or a thump.  I can totally live with that.  My 98 makes all kinda fun noises that I've gotten used to over the years

 

Anyway, is there anything I need to address or look out for with this model or engine?  I know it has a timing chain that is behind about a gazillion bolts that have to be removed to get to it.  I'm not looking forward to doing that in the future, but it seems doable... just a pain.  I will find out what all he's had done to it and when.  He's a pretty conscientious guy (a priest) so I think he's taken pretty good care of it.

 

Living down here in the south we don't see very many Subarus on the road, but when we do they don't have any rust at all.  My 98 is solid as a rock except for the annoying torque bind (I have it parked and am driving something else) and the screaming wheel bearings.  From what I've read, if the head gaskets are in good shape these EZ30s are pretty solid engines.

 

I was thinking the first things I would do would be drain and refill the ATF and run a can of seafoam through the engine.  I did that when I first got my 98 and it ran like new until the 2.5 asploded, but that's another story

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks!

Edited February 26, 2015 by BluetoE

[idosubaru]

if you can avoid the rare headgasket issue EZ30's run forever easily with little maintenance.  the chain should never have to be touched, just ignore it.

 

change front diff and AT fluids, valve cover gaskets are slightly annoying - time them with a spark plug change.  spark plugs are easy with the covers off.

 

the struts are surely tired by this age.  the squeaking i sprobably the rear suspension.  the arms/bolt/bushing that attaches the linkage to the subframe.

 

if you don't get it - pass the information along, i'll buy it.

[ccrinc]

I have the same car and I love it!  The single most important thing about this engine is religious oil changes (no pun intended ).  The timing chain tensioners and idlers are internal and lubricated by the engine oil.  If he has good oil change records and has used synthetic oil in it, you are probably good to go.  Of course, make sure he never overheated it either: these things are EXPENSIVE to rebuild!  (I wouldn't recommend Seafoam in the EZ30.  Rislone maybe, but not Seafoam.

 

Funny: my car has the same  "squeaky bump" (or bumpy squeak) whenever I hit an uneven spot just right.  We never have figured out what it is. We think it's frame related.

[Fairtax4me]

religious oil changes (no pun intended )

Funny!

 

Ill second that. Frequent oil changes are a must for proper timing chain maintenance on the 3.0.

300,000 is easily reachable as long as you stay on top of regular maintenance.

[ccrinc]

The very first EZ30 block we got (years ago, from a dealer from which we buy cores) had failed at 79,000 miles because the owner had NEVER done an oil change on it!  Just kept adding oil when ever it got low.  You wouldn't believe how brown/black the inside of that thing was! Needless to say, there was no warranty on it.

[BluetoE]

What kind of oil and at what interval do y'all recommend for oil and filter changes in these?

[idosubaru]

follow the owners manual.

 

oil type or brand doesn't matter at all.  i think the owners manual is every 7,500, that's a long time and i don't go that long.  but i drive used cars and the oil gets visually dirtier quicker - it may still perform fine, i've never had it tested.

 

you can get an UOA done from blackstone and others if you're really worried about a precise interval.

[BluetoE]

Ok.  I just wasn't sure if y'all agreed with the owners manual or not.  Easy enough.  Thanks.

 

lol @ the religious oil changes,  I'm totally asking him that

[Rooster2]

Drain and fill the auto tranny three times, with short driving intervals between drains. That way, you get a better ATF change, as about half the ATF stays in the torque converter, and doesn't get drained out.

[BluetoE]

Drain and fill the auto tranny three times, with short driving intervals between drains. That way, you get a better ATF change, as about half the ATF stays in the torque converter, and doesn't get drained out.

Yep.  That's what I did with my 98.  It worked great.  Completely got rid of the torque bind that car had when I got it.  I plan on doing the same with this one.

 

I did run a can of seafoam through the 98 though to blow the gunk out.  I'm not sure why that isn't a good idea with the 03, but if the oil has been changed "religiously" I guess it doesn't matter.

[AdventureSubaru]

$1000. is what the engine out of that car costs. I paid $1250 for the used one to put in my wife's 06 LL Bean when we bought it and that was the best price I could find, after some negotiation and a 6 hour drive to go get the darn thing.

 

Extra weight of that motor seems to wear on the suspension. I would expect bushings to be wearing out. My wifes car has them creaking on both sides and they are torn. Annoying, but not a safety concern. It's on my "eventually" list as I suspect you would do as well.

 

Sounds like a great deal for a nice upgrade. You'll love the power of the EZ30.

[BluetoE]

We haven't made the deal yet.  It might be wishful thinking or I might have misunderstood.

 

I do know that the local Carmax offered him $300 trade in on it.  A 12 year old car with 220k miles was all they saw, I guess.

 

I would be willing to pay up to $2k for it if the oil has been changed and the 4EAT is in good shape.  The rest would just be gravy.

[OLsubedrivr]

Old skool, FWIW; my old "Uncle Bruno", a great mechanic, would let us local kids hang out in his shop.We learned quite a bit about cars, life and other things as well, over the years his wisdom has served me well. His philosophy on used cars was tied to the cost and value of the vehicle in question. He would advise us; "if you buy a cheap car for a cheap price, just take care and drive it, don't spend more than 30-40% of it's cost on any single repair". Another "pearl" of his; "Look slow, be ready to buy fast" don't let the good ones slip away. Good luck on your price negotiations.

[idosubaru]

carmax offered $3,000 - that seems really high but i guess they're probably only really offering him $1,500 and they got enough fat rolled into the purchase price of another car that they can say $3,000.  he wouldn't get that trade in on a new car unless they were some good salesmen and he's not a good negotiator.

[Rooster2]

carmax offered $3,000 - that seems really high but i guess they're probably only really offering him $1,500 and they got enough fat rolled into the purchase price of another car that they can say $3,000.  he wouldn't get that trade in on a new car unless they were some good salesmen and he's not a good negotiator.

No, read BluetoE's last post again. Carmax offered only $300.00, not $3,000.00 for the car. Every story I have heard from people, who got a quote from Carmax, got a very low ball quote. Such as a couple of years ago, friends wanted to sell their old minivan. Carmax offered them $500. I retailed the van from my home with the help of Craig's list for $2,000.00. I am not bragging about my sales skills, just under scoring that Carmax buys only on the cheap.

[idosubaru]

ha ha ha $300, wowsers. 

[ccrinc]

If the tranny shifts normally when you test drive it, I wouldn't worry too much.  After 1999, the 4EAT transmissions became much more solid.  Their only real weak point is the torque converter.  So, if you do have a reason to take out the engine, I recommend you put in a rebuilt torque converter. 

 

As to the 7500 mile interval oil change, the newer cars (post-2000) come out of the factory with 5W20 full synthetic oil which doesn't break down as badly as dino oil.  It's what I run in my car.

 

We bought mine (an '01) with known bad head gaskets, ~220K on the odometer: but the guy had taken such good care of it otherwise, that we felt it was worth it.  He just showed up at our shop one day, looking to sell it.  Besides, any Subaru in CO for less than $3K is pretty much a bargain!

[BluetoE]

Heh.  Yeah.  I wasn't there, but he told me they offered him $300.  I think he would have taken $3k in trade.  To me (and him) the car is worth $3k if it's mechanically sound and I think it is.

 

I haven't had a chance to talk to him yet, but I hope to by the end of the week.  Apparently this is a busy time for priests or something  I still can't wait to ask him if the oil has been changed religiously.  

[BluetoE]

Ok.  I scored the car for pretty much nothing... but there's a kicker.  I just got back from taking it up to speed (80+ mph) on the interstate for about 20 miles each way and when I got back home the overflow was 3/4 full of orangish coolant and was bubbling.  It never ran hot and the needle stayed around the middle of the gauge.  

 

Is this for sure a HG issue?  I'm not mad if it is.  I literally have nothing in the car and it has no rust or torque bind and the interior is in good shape.  

 

I have all of his maintenance records and it looks like he had to replace a couple of radiator hoses and might have had to get it towed in.  So it's run hot at least once, maybe more.  He actually got a lot of stuff done to it over the past few years... CVs, brakes/rotors, tires are less than a year old, a nice XM stereo system, etc.  

 

Thanks again in advance for any advice.

[Fairtax4me]

Orange coolant is a problem. That's probably dexcool, which is just plain awful stuff. Be sure to flush the system out very well before putting in new Subaru coolant.

 

Bubbling in the overflow is a sure sign of a head gasket failure.

[BluetoE]

Well, for now I'm just going to replace the cheap stuff t-stat, rad cap, etc, flush it, and put in the Subaru coolant. Aside from a P0051 CEL for a $110 O2 sensor, I haven't found anything else mechanically wrong with the car. I was taking it up to speed last night to "blow it out" and it runs like a bat out of hell... for a priest's car Much more pick up than my EJ22.

I just started cleaning it up and going over it yesterday afternoon and so far I'm pleasantly surprised. Worst case I'm gonna move the tires/rims over to my 98 and park it until I can get the HG squared away.

ETA: after topping off the coolant and changing the oil, I noticed that the radiator cap was terrible. Rusty and crusty and couldn't have been making a good seal. Wishful thinking but I'm replacing it now.

 

ETAA: Ok after replacing the radiator cap and running it hard down the interstate for about 10 miles, the temp gauge started fluctuating and the bubbles came back.  Apparently it's a small leak that only shows up after it gets pretty hot.  20 miles at sub 55 speeds and no bubbles or fluctuations.

 

Looks like I get to pull an EZ30 and do a HG job.  Yay...  

Edited March 13, 2015 by BluetoE

[AdventureSubaru]

Any idea how recently the rad hoses and such were changed? The one other possibility to those bubbles is if the system has a leak/wasn't burped and there's air in the system working out again as it pressurizes. Could very well be head gaskets but before pulling the motor I would spend a good bit of time burping every last possible bubble out of there to see if it evens out.

 

If not, still sounds like you got a great deal even if is going to require some work to get it ready.

[BluetoE]

The hoses are all new.  It overheated on him back in June according to the maintenance records and they replaced them.  Unfortunately I know why it really overheated or... it got so hot that it cooked the HGs.  I went to NAPA today and bought a block tester kit and there are combustion gases in the radiator

 

I'm sad, but considering I have like $100 in the car so far including the $42 test kit, I'm not that pissed off.  My friend spend six grand on a Subie for his wife a few years ago only to find out it had blown HGs, so it could be worse.

 

Now I just have to make a decision.

 

The engine has 220k on it, so I'm not going to spend the time/effort/$$ doing the HGs.  Right now it doesn't run hot unless I go 80 mph for 20 min on the interstate then pull off and let it idle.  Putting around town it doesn't even bubble and never gets hot.  I think I'm gonna baby it while I'm getting my 98 up and running and then look for a donor motor.  That just seems so much easier.

 

The only other crazy idea would be to pull the EJ22 out of my 98 and all of it's electronics and try to make it fit in the 03.  The body/interior/tranny on the 03 are damn near mint and the engine in my 98 is rock solid.  It's a shame I can't marry the two somehow.

 

Thoughts?

[AdventureSubaru]

Can't cross 90s stuff with 2000+ without a ton of work/wiring splicing or fabrication.

 

220k is not bad for the H6. (Or almost any subaru motor) Depending how badly it overheated I'd do the HGs. If you think it got cooked, scrap it. but don't let that mileage scare you.

 

When I was scouting for an EZ30 for my wifes 06 car I found a few good 2000-04 EZ30s at reasonable prices. Scouting craigslist, U-pull-its and car-part.com etc. can probably yield a good motor for less than you'd expect. I think I saw one for about $450 out here.

[BluetoE]

The EZ30 isn't cooked yet.  It purrs like a sewing machine.  I just have a hard time investing that kind of effort when I can just run it into the ground and save up for a donor with less miles.  They are all over ebay for $1000-1500.  I'm sure with some effort I can find one for a fraction of that.

 

Is there a good start to finish HG EZ30 guide anywhere?  A step by step video would be even better

 

ETA:  I wish I could stick these together and make one car!!!!

 

Edited March 15, 2015 by BluetoE