02 Legacy Wagon - intro/goals

[plogerjb]

Hey guys, second post here, I just introduced myself elsewhere on the forum. I'm about to be the proud owner of an 02 Legacy Wagon 2.5NA 4EAT. I wanted to outline my goals for the car and see if any advice can be offered. It is going to be my daily driver (on days when T-Tops are a no go), but mods are certainly not out of the question.

 

First things first, It has a blown head gasket. I know the history of the car, and this is the second time. The first time, the gaskets were replaced and it was reassembled. Lasted a few years, but it's back to the garage again - hence my acquisition. I'm planning on pulling the entire motor apart to do the head gaskets, head bolts, all other gaskets/seals, and most likely a ring/hone/bearing job. A few questions...

• What's the best head gasket money can buy? I'm tempted to go with the Fel-Pro MLS, as I've had them on my iron/aluminum 5.0 for years without problems, and have even reused them.
• Head bolts - get them from Subaru or go aftermarket? I'm leaning toward ARP head studs, as they've also treated me well on the 5.0, but they are a bit expensive. Worth it or what? 
• Any recommended head/intake/exhaust mods while I'm in there? I'm not afraid to whip a die grinder or whatever else around. Going for maximum reliable torque. Not planning on going boosted with this block. 
• I've seen references to a mod involving a switch to lock the trans in 50/50. Does this apply to my Legacy, or not? I've seen conflicting information. End goal is off road capability, so if it applies, I'm all in.
• Limited slip diffs - I'm assuming this vehicle doesn't have it - how much does it matter, and how hard is it to find? I'm talking more of junkyard finds or swaps than aftermarket most likely.
• Planning on custom exhaust... I don't really care for how the aftermarket headers look from an engineering standpoint, so I'm probably gonna fab my own if it looks doable. 4-2-1 would be better than a 4-1, but that may be impossible with my desired routing. We'll see. Other than that, I'm probably gonna toss any resonators and keep the factory muffler if it isn't too quiet. Cats... they may be on the car for a day every couple of years, but I don't care for how much they quiet down the sound/melt when spoob goes wrong.

 

As far as the drivetrain goes, that's all I have for now. On to suspension... Definitely going to be lifted. From what I can tell, this is going to be a combination of struts, strut spacers, possibly subframe spacers, and taller tires. 

• Are Forester struts the hot ticket for this? If so, am I using my springs, Forester springs, aftermarket springs... etc. I'll drill any holes I need to fit it. Most concerned about stuffing tires in.
• What's it going to take to stuff a 28-29" tire in there? I'm looking at General Grabber AT2s, Most likely 215/70/16 (just over 28). The other option is 225/75/16, but something tells me I'm already cutting it close.... (get it? cutting? oh I'm killin me...  ) I'm planning on having to mod for fitment, I'm just looking for advice from anyone who has done it. 
• Strut spacers - Rumor has it 2" is the max for this without wild changes to suspension for axle fitment. Any advice on the matter would be appreciated. 
• Subframe spacers - Does this actually really net me any clearance? Is it worth it? 

I'm planning on starting a build thread once I get the vehicle in my possession, taking pictures the whole way. I realize starting with a 2.5 Lego has me fighting the current the whole way, but it's what I have and I really need to shut my Jeep friend up with this thing. Looking forward to many offroad/rally adventures with my heated seats... 

 

-Jeff

[AdventureSubaru]

Guys more versed on engines will be able to better answer the motor stuff. I can field the suspension/lift though.

 

For an 02 lift you can use the front struts from 96-04 and maybe higher Outback struts or forester. Rear struts should be from 2000-2004 outback only as they were a different design. Forester rear wont fit your car. Adding strut spacers beyond this suspension lift will ad stress to the axles. Up to an inch should be tolerable. 2 inches and you may be sacrificing reliability for height. Outbacks had crossmembers with an added inch of clearance. You could swap those over or do a body lift. SJR and a couple others make them for this generation now.

 

With outback struts/springs you can clear about a 28 inch tire. We had 27 1/2 on my wifes outback and had a little room to spare. For anything bigger, you'd either need custom fabricated struts that removes the issue of the spring perch mount. Or get some 1 inch 5x100 spacers off ebay to distance the tire from the perch. 29 is probably about the max before a good deal more fab work is needed.

 

Subframe spacers lift the body but you're still maxed out by those spring perches at a 28inch tire thereabouts. The snag to actually gain ground clearance beyond that tire height is that you are now looking at very custom suspension work. It was done on a few out there. The monsterwagon was one. And there's a crazy Impreza in the works in the off road section that has fabbed control arms etc and can run about any size tire.

 

Where there's a will there's a way. Easy start though is to throw some outback suspension under there and 27-28 inch tires and build from that starting point.

Edited March 11, 2015 by AdventureSubaru

[Fairtax4me]

Head gaskets use the 2.5 Turbo gaskets from Subaru. Felpro doesn't have the best reputation on the 2.5 gaskets.

Re-use the original bolts. No need to spend money on those. They get reused all the time.

Biggest thing is to make sure the heads get machined on an actual head mill, not a sanding wheel or belt sander like some shops use. These things have to be flat flat to seal properly.

 

 

Rear suspension on the 00+ legacy is different from the forester so no way to use forester struts. You can buy legacy Outback struts and that will give you an extra inch of clearance to the spring perch.

 

Crossmember spacers lower the crossmembers to keep axle angles within a normal operating range. They do NOT increase clearance, they decrease it. They really only need to be used if you have a set of raised height king springs or more than 1" blocks on top of outback struts.

 

InfernoFab makes really nice dual port headers. There are many other options for headers on eBay and such.

[ccrinc]

What Fairtax said. 

 

My main observation however, is: fix the problem you know it has, do a moderate lift if you want to, but beyond that, you are heading in the direction of ruining a perfectly good Subaru.  This generation was never meant to be a "rally/offroad" car. 

 

You'll never be able to match a Jeep crawling over rocks, but comfort yourself in knowing that when he gets his J in trouble, YOU will be the one who will be able to pull him out!

[plogerjb]

Not really trying to go rock crawling, not my cup of tea. You call it ruining a good Subaru, I call it custom.  Rally would be closer to the goal. Thanks for the advice on the Outback struts - note taken. Will likely be a junkyard pull unless I come across some decent factory replacements at a good price. I'm a tech, so I might be able to get some at cost. Some call it a body lift, I visualize it more as a subframe drop, as that's what it really accomplishes. All I'm worried about height wise is clearing 28" or so tires. Sounds like this is gonna take the struts and maybe a little strut spacer action, we'll measure after the struts go on. I'm willing to sacrifice a couple axles every now and then, not a big deal to put them in on a lift. 

 

Sounds like I'll go with the turbo gaskets then, although I'm sure that's what was used last time... with the bolts reused... hmmm. Definitely getting new bolts or studs, it was just a matter or who from. They're torque to yield and I'm not chancing it. Heads will definitely be going to a machine shop for proper work, possibly a valve job depending on when I hit the lottery. That InfernoFab header looks nice, but it's still lacking on primary length on the one side. No dice for me, I think. I'll keep looking. 

 

Thanks for the advice guys. Looking forward to getting this project rolling after a snowy winter with the Mustang stranded for weeks. 

[AdventureSubaru]

You'll have to trim just a little plastic but outback struts/springs from a junkyard should be all you need to clear those tires. Body lift wont help clear bigger tires

 

You can put 3/8 inch HDPE spacers on the strut tops with the stock bolts. Any higher and you need longer bolts.

[Fairtax4me]

Some call it a body lift, I visualize it more as a subframe drop, as that's what it really accomplishes.

Struts have nothing to do with the subframe. Not even remotely attached to it. OB struts raise the entire vehicle because the bottom of the strut tube is about an inch longer than a legacy strut. Think of it like a shackle lift or lift springs for a pickup.

 

Crossmember spacers are the subframe drop.

 

If you're looking for equal length headers there are plenty of options. eBay is a good source. Just do some googling. Most people run un-equal length because it gives a more distinct sound.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Fairtax4me

[plogerjb]

You'll have to trim just a little plastic but outback struts/springs from a junkyard should be all you need to clear those tires. Body lift wont help clear bigger tires

 

You can put 3/8 inch HDPE spacers on the strut tops with the stock bolts. Any higher and you need longer bolts.

Longer bolts isn't an issue. That's just a trip to the hardware store/McMaster.

 

 

Struts have nothing to do with the subframe. Not even remotely attached to it. OB struts raise the entire vehicle because the bottom of the strut tube is about an inch longer than a legacy strut. Think of it like a shackle lift or lift springs for a pickup.

 

Crossmember spacers are the subframe drop.

 

If you're looking for equal length headers there are plenty of options. eBay is a good source. Just do some googling. Most people run un-equal length because it gives a more distinct sound.

Considering the struts attach to a spindle that is attached to control arms that attach to the subframe... I'll file that under remote. It's only useful for reducing CV angles, but it is part of the system.

 

I see equal length headers, but most seem poorly designed with regards to routing and collectors. Unequal length gives a more distinct sound because the pressure wave energy is being dissipated as kinetic energy OUT of the car, rather than using that same force to scavenge the cylinder. This results in one bank achieving a different volumetric efficiency (assuming NA), along with all the tuning/driveability issues that go with it. Basically, half the engine will peak at low RPM, the other at high - unfortunately ALL of the unequal length headers are still wayyy too short on the short side for the RPM ranges used. You might as well be running half a header and a log manifold.