Legacy 95 Unable to start and possible AT issues

[dejmall]

First of all I apologize for my English.

 

Here is the story. My car has 240k. A week ago I was returning from a trip and the car died on a hwy on an uphill part. It just lost RPMs, and my next attempts to start was good, but I couldn't move. Car made an attempt to go, but died again. I tried a few more times and it was worse and worse, finally it stopped start at all. (I did saw an AT light flashing, but I didn't notice how many times it was, and it is not flashing anymore (since I wasn't be able to start an engine))

 

Few days before that happened it was difficult to start an engine some times. An engine has always started, but randomly, it took too long time to spin the starter before success. I have never had major shifting issues, but sometimes it took a while until switch from 2-3 or 3-4. My dipstick was showing too much AT fluid (no coolant loss).

 

So, I had my car towed to home and I discovered that, when key is in position ON I can hear a buzzing sound coming from a bottom of a car.

 

I started my research. I think there are two issues. One is the engine won't start issue and the other is the AT issue.

 

Engine doesn't start issue: I have new spark plugs and cables; I'll test Ignition Coil today and update the thread.

 

I want to ask how I can test if the fuel is going to chambers. I tried to check the spark plugs, they were dry (I guess).

 

I removed some parts from AT (filter, cage with solenoids) Can I still do the attempts to start an engine? Maybe in FWD mode? Or should I put everything back first?

 

 

AT issues. As I mentioned there was a noise, exactly like that 

NOT MY VIDEO. But description is seems to be similar.

 

I drained AT fluid, and tried to put a key in to ON position and see better where is sound coming from.

 

I marked two valves as I'm guessing one of them could be a trouble maker. I was under the car and had a key in pos. ON. I had AToil filter down, so I was able to see how the drips of AT fluid are fountains from those valves. Now I have that cage taken down and I can make a pictures and probably test a resistance or I don't know.

 

Here are the questions. What should I do next?

 

P.S. I tried this  http://www.porcupine73.com/pics/diagrammatics/tcu-diagnosis-connector-96-1.gif but no codes came up.

[nipper]

The buzzing noise ignore. You are hearing a duty solenoid in the transmission do its thing, which you normally wouldnt hear or are used to hearing.

 

The more critical problem.

When was the last time the timing belt was changed in this car.

 

Fuel systems on these cars are so reliable we can ignore it, for now.

[WoodsWagon]

There's nothing in the transmission that will stop the engine from running, so stop ripping parts off it! Fluid level is checked with the engine running with the trans in neutral, so the transmission oil pump is circulating fluid. When the car is not running, fluid drains back to the pan making the level on the dipstick read high.

 

Get the engine started first. Take a video for us of you cranking the engine over.

 

Does it have spark? Take the plugs out of the heads, rest them on metal next to the plug holes with the wires connected, and have an assistant crank the engine over. You should see bright spark and hear the snap. Don't stick your head down to look at it, fuel/air mix getting blown out of the sparkplug holes could potentially ignite and the woof of flame can take your eyebrows.

 

Since it's a 95, and assuming it's the original engine, if the timing belt went there's no valve damage done. Easy enough to take off the two outer timing belt covers and turn the crank with a ratchet to line up the notches on the cam pulleys with the slots in the rear covers. If the pulleys aren't in sync, then you know that's your culprit. A compression test will also tell you if the cam timing is way off.

 

Fuel pumps do occasionally die or the plug at the top of the sending
unit develops a poor connection. So putting a high pressure fuel gauge T'd into the hose going to the fuel filter is a good thing to check. It should read 40 something psi. It sounds like the fuel pump is doing a prime cycle when you turn the ignition back on in your video, but hard to hear.

[dejmall]

All, thanks for quick response. I have timing belt changed last year. Spark plugs and cables are new.

 

I have an update: I have a spark on all plugs. BUT, I don't see a fuel coming to a fuel filter. I've disconnected an out hose first and then intake hose and nothing happened when I turned key in to ON position, neither when I tried to start an engine.  So. I guess all fuses are good (will double check it), then it means that Fuel pump or fuel pump relay has an issue? How to find out?

"so stop ripping parts off it!" - sir, I promise I won't! I just want to put it back in a right way

Back, to my second question. I'm OK and can agree with guess that AT is OK. My question is, who knows where belongs those 3 springs which are fell out when I disassembled a "cage" (a platform with the valves)

 

+ Gasket, very tiny gasket is in a middle that cage is falling apart, sort of. Can I just ignore it? Please, see where pointing my finger.

 

 

P.S. "in your video" it wasn't my video, just a same noise.

Edited March 16, 2015 by dejmall

[nipper]

Were all the idlers and tensioners changed at that time?

 

You will get a squirt of fuel to prime the sysytem and once the car starts you will get regular flow.

[dejmall]

I'm not sure if all tensioners were changed as well, I can check an invoice...

 

I didn't get anything coming from a hose leading to a fuel filter.

 

UPD: no tensioners in my invoice for timing belt change.

 

UPD2: 

that video and its description is very good and explains a lot. I'll check tomorrow if I have a juice coming to pump and if so, then I need to replace it. I think I'll need a new fuel filter too? Edited March 16, 2015 by dejmall

[mikec03]

I had the fuel pump fail on a 95.  I had the same symptoms as OP, ie. no fuel coming out of the hose before the filter when I cranked it. I went to the junk yard and replaced the entire assembly for $50.  Problem solved.

[dejmall]

Good evening. I've tested if the power is coming to a fuel pump and got nothing. Then i moved to a fuel pump relay and saw got a positive sign from a relay plug. Please, see if I've correctly identified the relay?

 

 

Please, advise me if my assumption is correct. I'll do replace relay and fuel filter, then.

 

 

And, back to transmission part .

 

 

I'd like to ask where those springs belongs to? I found THIS page, where I can see 4 springs.... But I'm sure I've got only 3 fallen on my face... any thoughts? How can I determine which is belongs to where?

 

please help

 

P.S. I'll put back a new AT fluid filter and gasket, it is obvious. But shall I put a new fluid as well? or 50/50 with an old? Should I put Lukas Tran. Fix "Stops slips "  adhesives? What would be your suggestion?

 

Thanks.

[WoodsWagon]

Power to the pump is only a short couple second pulse when you first turn the key on. So it can be easy to miss. One thing you can do is use a paper clip to jump across the pins in the fuel pump relay plug. See the schematic on the side of the relay? Pin 3 and whichever pin is labeled on the other side of the switch contact symbol are the power connection to the pump. If you remove the relay and jump those two pins together in the connector, then the pump should have power full time. One caution is if you jump the wrong pins which are for the control coil in the relay, you can cook the ECU when it tries to ground a shorted circuit. So be sure you are on the right pins!

 

If it does turn out to be a bad fuel pump, do not replace it with an Airtex brand one. They are junk and you'll be back in there within a year.

 

Use new fluid in the trans. They don't have a paper filter to clog so running fresh fluid in them doesn't loosen up all the goop and clog the filter and kill the trans like you've probably been cautioned about putting fresh fluid in an old transmission before. Multiple fresh fluid changes are often done on cars with a binding AWD clutchpack, and it always helps not hurts.

 

Since you seem eager to dig into the internals of the car, I'd recommend downloading the factory service manual from Subaru. They offer a 1 day subscription where you can download as much as you want and save it on your computer. That way you have the best reference manual available.

[dejmall]

Update

 

Part I: Ignition/Fuel Pump

 

I see power is coming to Pumps Relay (verified with a light bulb)

 

I can't get a power in to the Fuel Pump plug. I tried to put brand new relay or paper clip instead, I tried to test a plug leading to the Fuel Pump by using the same bulb (stop light) inserting the wires to pin 1 and 2 OR pin 1 and ground but got nothing. 

 - Should I try to bypass the wiring between relay and  the pump?

 - Could it be restricted by taken down the transmission parts ?

 

 

Part II: Transmission "valves plate"/"solenoids plate" assembly

 

I still looking for advise in which order should I put the springs back in? There are 4 "pistes"/"chambers" in a part which is still attached to the car, three of them has an inner diameter which is corresponds with the springs. So I used it as a clue.

I put it back today in the following order, from front of the car to the back: smaller spring, bigger spring, middle spring, nothing. I don't have an AT fluid in it yet.

 - Can anyone confirm I did it right?

 

There is a horizontal "piston" which was connected to the rod. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how to connect them back together.

 - Can I force and pull the rod closer to that piston?

 - Should I put any other gear instead of Parking to make it easier?

 

Thanks. I'll provide the pictures tomorrow if needed.

 

P.S. Just watched the video and noticed the same rod I'm talking about even it is not a Legacy's AT. 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2015 by dejmall

[dejmall]

So, it was a pump. I visited a junk yard, and found one to replace my on a vehicle with 100k miles less then my Suba. Transmission is assembled back now and I had a short test ride. I saw AT light flashed 16 times, but maybe because I haven't enough AT fluid in it or maybe because of "AT test harness" was connected in test mode. Anyways, Ifilled up the fluid and disconnected test harness and tried to start and drive, I didn't see any issues but only sort of vibrations on turns. I think it was discussed here on forum, so I can double check it later. 

 

Car got new spark plug wires, fuel filter, AT fluid filter and fluid, pump relay and fuel pump nice upgrade lol