Fram High Milage oil filter

[loyale1993]

Does anybody use Fram HM oil filters? I went to buy one and the book didn't list a "Loyale" but it listed another model Subaru and said 1.8L so I purchased that filter thinking it is the same thing. I don't recall the # on it but it ended with an "A". I got it home and noticed it was much smaller than the filter I had purchased my last 2 oil changes (Fram HM3682)  I have no idea why I originally bought the HM3682 if the book listed this other filter to use.

 

Anyway I took the small filter back and purchased the same filter that I had on my sube for the last 2 oil changes. As I was putting the filter on I thought that maybe the smaller filter would be a better match to the mating surface of the oil pump. It seems to run fine with the filter I have chosen and doesn't leak I'm just looking for opinions.

 

[Subasaurus]

i dont use fram filters since i think those are the lowest quality, i usually buy WIX or K&N filters with full synthetic 10w-30, used to use 10w-40 before replacing the oil pump, i like how the wix filters fit on the oil pump, never had an issue with oil seeping through, but do know that fram ($3-5) to wix ($10-11) and k&n ($12-15). and i made the same mistake when i bought my first oil filter, you probably bought an impreza 1.8L ej18 oil filter. the EA82s oil filters are quite bigger. since im usually buying WIX the part number is 51361. also 1985-1994 is the same oil filter for DLs, GLs, Loyales, not sure about the turbo GL-10though. did you thread in the smaller filter? if im correct, it wouldn't have threaded in.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Subasaurus

[jonas]

Hmm, I have something similar. My '84 Ea81 uses a different filter than my '85 Ea81. Same motor ('85 is hydro lifter), dunno why they are different.

Am I be mor dum?

[loyale1993]

i dont use fram filters since i think those are the lowest quality, i usually buy WIX or K&N filters with full synthetic 10w-30, used to use 10w-40 before replacing the oil pump, i like how the wix filters fit on the oil pump, never had an issue with oil seeping through, but do know that fram ($3-5) to wix ($10-11) and k&n ($12-15). and i made the same mistake when i bought my first oil filter, you probably bought an impreza 1.8L ej18 oil filter. the EA82s oil filters are quite bigger. since im usually buying WIX the part number is 51361. also 1985-1994 is the same oil filter for DLs, GLs, Loyales, not sure about the turbo GL-10though. did you thread in the smaller filter? if im correct, it wouldn't have threaded in.

 

I have read forums of people who absolutely hate Fram and I've been using them for years on all of my vehicles with no problems (knock on wood) I'm too cheap to buy the more expensive filters. I believe I substituted a 93 loyale 1.8l for a 93 justy 1.8l in the Fram filter book. I figured it would be the same guess I was wrong.

[Subasaurus]

 

I have read forums of people who absolutely hate Fram and I've been using them for years on all of my vehicles with no problems (knock on wood) I'm too cheap to buy the more expensive filters. I believe I substituted a 93 loyale 1.8l for a 93 justy 1.8l in the Fram filter book. I figured it would be the same guess I was wrong.

i don't know anything about justy's except that their a 3banger transverse engine like a honda engine, besides that, your on your own on justy's but these engines can go a long way even with a low quality filter so you should be fine either way. Edited April 5, 2015 by Subasaurus

[loyale1993]

i don't know anything about justy's except that their a 3banger transverse engine like a honda engine, besides that, your on your own on justy's but these engines can go a long way even with a low quality filter so you should be fine either way.

 

Yeah I wouldn't know a justy if it ran over my foot haha. I just saw it was same year and engine. I've been watching a couple vs vids on youtube on fram filters. Maybe I will try a better quality filter on my next change ONLY because TOD about 200 miles before I'm due for an oil change and I suspect flow restriction is the culprit. Long story but I was plagued with intermittent TOD for about a year and have recently solved it by switching oil weight and re sealing the oil pump. I hate paying more $ on a disposable part but I hate TOD even more

[Subasaurus]

 

Yeah I wouldn't know a justy if it ran over my foot haha. I just saw it was same year and engine. I've been watching a couple vs vids on youtube on fram filters. Maybe I will try a better quality filter on my next change ONLY because TOD about 200 miles before I'm due for an oil change and I suspect flow restriction is the culprit. Long story but I was plagued with intermittent TOD for about a year and have recently solved it by switching oil weight and re sealing the oil pump. I hate paying more $ on a disposable part but I hate TOD even more

the Tick Of Death refers to the resale value of the car more than anything, no the engine isn't going to die soon or anything, its just annoying and worthless to the world, i replaced my oil pump with the seal, thats how i fixed my TOD, replacing the mickey mouse seal also works but depends on how the previous owner took care of the engine and how often the oil changes happened because that will be visible in the oil pump as it is in the engine, also justy's were only 1.2L in the U.S? how did you confuse a 1.8L with a 1.2L? also if you go heavier on the oil, you do loose alittle HP, just a quick fact there, the lighter the more power but ofcourse, the more wear, unless your engine is new. Edited April 5, 2015 by Subasaurus

[l75eya]

Mobil 1 oil and filters. Nothing but the best.

[mudduck]

Stay away from the fram filters. Cut one open and youl see why. I run purolator filters, they are cheap, and are of much better quality than the frams.

[Subasaurus]

also what's your oil psi? it should be between 8-14ish, mine is around 15ish (this is idling and already warmed up) this will be inaccurate if you haven't changed the oil pressure sender thats on the oil pump itself, its a large (a half dollar coin size) sensor with 1 wire coming out of it, theres another one thats alot smaller thats a dummy light for the GL-10, if its at 0psi when idling then thats part of the problem, yes i know these guages are somewhat innacurate but being at 0psi is about 4ish-5psi, anyless than 4 actual psi and you will throw a rod and abunch of ugly stuff starts to happen, the engine needs atleast 4psi to lubricate correctly and all the oil rails to be working and functioning correctly. have you replaced the pressure sender sensor? they are pricey, $30-60 for a new one, depending where you get one from, unless yours is still functioning correctly compared to the $10 dummy GL-10 light

Edited April 6, 2015 by Subasaurus

[MR_Loyale]

FRAM, the "good stuff".

 

[Subasaurus]

FRAM, the "good stuff".

 

lol

[loyale1993]

My car has the idiot light. I was running 5-30 and would get TOD after running at highway speeds for 20-30 minutes. I switched to a 10-40 oil and that solved it until the other day. I drove almost 3,000 miles before it started again.

[Subasaurus]

My car has the idiot light. I was running 5-30 and would get TOD after running at highway speeds for 20-30 minutes. I switched to a 10-40 oil and that solved it until the other day. I drove almost 3,000 miles before it started again.

forgot you have an EA82 after 1992, they came without a battery gauge and oil gauge.. 10-40 is the most you want to go, im sure you noticed power difference, im sorry but the gasket you bought for $14ish bucks was useless, buy a bottle of lucas for your oil, keep running until your next oil change, meanwhile buy a motor flush bottle ($5) once you pour this bottle in, run your car at idle once warmed up for 10min, then drain the oil, note: motor flush kills your oil but cleans your hydrolifters and any other gunk that will help with the tick, at that time, install a new oil pump, (note the oil pump i bought on ebay does not come with a seal so you can either reuse or buy another) and im so sorry but theres only one person that i know of that carries it, my dealership does not, maybe yours but the price i bought mine was $165. apparently after a year its gone up another $10. this person i did not buy it from, so please do your research and ask the seller questions if thats the route you want to go. http://m.ebay.com/itm/151058356833?nav=SEARCH

this will fix your tick of death, it hurts to spend a bunch of money, but thats the route i took to fix the tick that drove me insane. also if you don't want to go that extreme yet, just buy motor flush oil on your next oil change and add either motor oil or full synthetic motor oil but make sure its HIGH MILEAGE oil, this oil has additives that helps with vehicles with high mileage.

if you are going to take the extreme route, DO NOT leave your vehicle with no oil for more than 5hours, i left mine overnight since i was tired of working on it that day and the next morning after finishing it had a collapsed lifter, sounded like it threw a rod, anyways i went to the junkyard, and replaced all the lifters on my vehicle from another that had 120,000miles. theres lots of routes you can take, you can replace all the lifters off of another car but its risky, new lifters cost at autozone $84 dollars each, ouch. let me know if you have anymore questions, i was on the same boat as you a year ago.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Subasaurus

[Subasaurus]

i have one more solution for you (cheap route) flush your radiator and get a beck n arnley radiator thermostat, this will keep your oil from thinning out so much and getting so hot, this is where my vehicle sits after a 35min drive on the highway, note the temp, yes its working and so is the oil pressure gauge, this is as hot as my vehicle gets, but i went all out on mine and hours of working on it, you might want to try this first before spending alot of money when it was something else, also make sure your electric fan works, they seem to fail frequently because of a wiring problem that subaru did to the factory harnesses.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Subasaurus

[Sapper 157]

Personally I love FRAM filters. My family has used them for years. Never had an issue. 

[Subasaurus]

if you say so, but like mudduck said

Stay away from the fram filters. Cut one open and youl see why. I run purolator filters, they are cheap, and are of much better quality than the frams.

open one up and compare it to another, and perhaps your family bought them because their the cheapest filters, and the tick speaks for itself, tried to help but if your not willing to change the most simplest thing (oil filter) i cant help.

 

you also gotta remember that this is one of subarus first unleaded engine, and hydraulic lifters, so it ain't perfect but its a tough little engine, thats why people say the EA82 was the worst subaru engine but i dont agree to it as long as you keep up with maintenance.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Subasaurus

[Sapper 157]

Stay away from the fram filters. Cut one open and youl see why. I run purolator filters, they are cheap, and are of much better quality than the frams.

Ive watched several youtube videos where people have compared oil filters and their elements. The insides of the FRAM looked identical to every other oil filter displayed. So whats the big deal? I'll agree, I don't like their economy filters, but I love their Ultra series. They have always been good to me and my soob, as well as to my familys rigs. 

 

EDIT: Found this on a GM forum: http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articles/oilfilterstudy.html

 

 

 

This guy dismantled various filters and also tested them. Then he graded them just like a report card. The link to the grade card is at the top of the study. Just as I suspected the lower cost FRAMs did not fare well, but their Xtended Guard did very well. Not saying this report is fact, just saying that FRAMs really arnt as bad as a lot of people say. 

Edited April 7, 2015 by Sapper 157

[motorking]

Does anybody use Fram HM oil filters? I went to buy one and the book didn't list a "Loyale" but it listed another model Subaru and said 1.8L so I purchased that filter thinking it is the same thing. I don't recall the # on it but it ended with an "A". I got it home and noticed it was much smaller than the filter I had purchased my last 2 oil changes (Fram HM3682)  I have no idea why I originally bought the HM3682 if the book listed this other filter to use.

 

Anyway I took the small filter back and purchased the same filter that I had on my sube for the last 2 oil changes. As I was putting the filter on I thought that maybe the smaller filter would be a better match to the mating surface of the oil pump. It seems to run fine with the filter I have chosen and doesn't leak I'm just looking for opinions.

Loyale,

I am the tech manager at FRAM. If you give me the year and model and (engine size is 1.8) I can send you the correct filter part number. As for those in here bashing FRAM, are you aware that FRAM manufactures Subaru OE filters for Subaru?

[l75eya]

Go figure. As soon as we start talking trash about FRAM, a friggin tech manager from them pops up out of the woodwork. I really feel like our subaru forums here house the most diverse people possible. Doctors, lawyers, garbagemen, service techs, bums, hippies, engineers, where's our resident celebrity?

Edited April 9, 2015 by l75eya

[MR_Loyale]

Loyale,

I am the tech manager at FRAM. If you give me the year and model and (engine size is 1.8) I can send you the correct filter part number. As for those in here bashing FRAM, are you aware that FRAM manufactures Subaru OE filters for Subaru?

 

Just because FRAM makes the OE filter for Subaru doesn't mean they aren't garbage.

 

http://www.fram.com/media/20698/recall_notice_02052013_for_distribution.pdf

 

Maybe Subaru needs to be bashed for using such poor quality oil filters as OE.  Of course if you have some objective evidence to the contrary, I would certainly be open to examining it.  The key word being objective (no FRAM financed or affiliate, subsidiary etc of FRAM (or parent (Honeywell is it ?) ) financed "research"). 

 

Here is a video of a fellow comparing the FRAM with some others. Note near the end when he shows the small number of pleats compared to the others:

 

 

 

 

CARDBOARD end caps on the filter.

 

Edited April 9, 2015 by MR_Loyale

[Subasaurus]

thats probably why i never take my vehicle to the dealership just for an oil change, or for anything for that matter, whoever does just for oil should be smaked. unless ofcourse you own a mercedes and cant remove the oil filter since they take a dealership tool.. and just because its OE Subaru Filter doesn't mean its better than Mobil 1 or K&N, i never use subaru filters and now i have more of a reason not to use one!

Edited April 9, 2015 by Subasaurus

[Sapper 157]

The first video you posted MR Loyale is admittedly disappointing. That hole in the filter is unacceptable and is obviously a manufacturing defect.  

 

The second video you posted was less of a disappointment to FRAM. Why? You may ask. 

Because now days, all FRAM oil filters are manufactured with either cellulose or other synthetic media. Which means they are right on par with a most other companies. Now to address what you considered a sin above all others: CARDBOARD END CAPS        

 

Okay, okay, i'll quit the drama. Seriously though, the cardboard is not as bad as you would think. After All what is cardboard? Paper. What is one of the most common filtering medias used by oil filters? Paper.

Yeah I admit, the filter would definitely not win the contest for "toughest end-caps", but I doubt the endcaps are going to cause catastrophic engine failure due to poor filtration. 

 

Also disappointing is that in the last video link you posted, was that the only reason that guy did that video was to make WIX look good. Plus, he was comparing a top of the line WIX filter with a filter-on-a-budget FRAM (aka frams most inexpensive option). In my opinion, to make it fair for the fram, he should have used one of frams premium ULTRA filters.  

 

Here is a letter from fram regarding their use of cardboard end caps:

 Mr. Lawrence:

Thank you for the e-mail regarding the construction and micron rating of Fram oil filters. We welcome
the opportunity to be of service.
Fram filters meet the requirements of the original equipment filter designed for a specific engine. Our
filter applications follow the recommendations of the vehicle manufacturer for form, fit, and function.
Fram filters follow internally targeted design guidelines to meet the functional requirements of a given
filter. Fram filters are tested against SAE standards to ensure uniform product quality and performance.
Material construction will vary between filter manufacturers. We believe Fram filters have a proven
record for providing reliability, superior quality, and engine protection over the service life of the filter.
A common misunderstanding among our customers concerns the end disks in the oil filter. These disks
hold the glue which keeps the pleated media formed into a rigid circular tube. The glue-to-media
interface is also one of the sealing surfaces keeping dirty and filtered oil from mixing. One common
myth is that only metal end disks can adequately seal and have enough strength in the hot oil
environment. For this reason, Fram filters are criticized for having cardboard end disks. The issue is, the
material doing the sealing is the adhesive, regardless of the material of the end disk. What matters is the
strength of the adhesive, its proper curing, the thoroughness with which it can be applied to the disk,
and its adhesion to the disk. By using cardboard end disks, Fram filter engineers are able to specify
adhesives with excellent strength and sealing properties, and strong adhesion to the disk (intuitively, it
is easy to make a strong glue bond with cardboard). Moreover, just as paper media itself is able to
withstand the hot oil environment, so too is the end disk designed of fibers engineered to be strong and
nert in hot oil. The thickness and strength of the adhesive also stiffens the end disk considerably.
Fram engineers perform hot oil circulation tests on the filter element and also regularly cut open used
filters to examine how well they have withstood the rigors of actual use on a vehicle. For over 38 years,
Fram end disks have stood up to hot oil and their adhesives have sealed off the dirty oil.
Fram's latest entry in the automotive oil filter market is the X2 Extended Guard oil filter. The Fram X2
Extended Guard filter uses a filter media that includes a reinforced mesh screen for maximum pleat
integrity, durability, and oil flow. The inclusion of the metal screen increased the glue tolerances or
thickness required for proper adhesion to the end disk. The original X2 prototype development specified
the cardboard end disk technology. However, the increased amount of adhesive required to join the
cardboard end disk to the screened media resulted in prototypes that did not conform to design
standards. We had no choice but to use a steel end disk with the X2 filter media to provide uniform
Extended Guard oil filter construction.
Fram automotive oil filters, including the standard Extra Guard and premium X2 Extended Guard
filters, have a micron rating of 10 micron.
If you require further assistance with Fram filter construction, please contact the Fram Engineering
Department directly at 1-419-661-6700.
Thank you for your interest in Fram filters.
Cordially, Scott Jacobs, Catalog/Technical Service Representative

 

Feel free to let loose with the hail of insidious comments directed at FRAM and at my use of their filters. Fire when ready Gridly!   

[jonas]

I buy my filters and brake pads from this guy.

 

http--,,--//

 

[l75eya]

Best thread in awhile. Good discussion. (Honestly. Not sarcasm. Enjoyed reading)