Fram High Milage oil filter

[MR_Loyale]

The first video you posted MR Loyale is admittedly disappointing. That hole in the filter is unacceptable and is obviously a manufacturing defect.  

 

The second video you posted was less of a disappointment to FRAM. Why? You may ask. 

Because now days, all FRAM oil filters are manufactured with either cellulose or other synthetic media. Which means they are right on par with a most other companies. Now to address what you considered a sin above all others: CARDBOARD END CAPS      

 

Okay, okay, i'll quit the drama. Seriously though, the cardboard is not as bad as you would think. After All what is cardboard? Paper. What is one of the most common filtering medias used by oil filters? Paper.

Yeah I admit, the filter would definitely not win the contest for "toughest end-caps", but I doubt the endcaps are going to cause catastrophic engine failure due to poor filtration. 

 

Also disappointing is that in the last video link you posted, was that the only reason that guy did that video was to make WIX look good. Plus, he was comparing a top of the line WIX filter with a filter-on-a-budget FRAM (aka frams most inexpensive option). In my opinion, to make it fair for the fram, he should have used one of frams premium ULTRA filters.  

 

Here is a letter from fram regarding their use of cardboard end caps:

 Mr. Lawrence:

Thank you for the e-mail regarding the construction and micron rating of Fram oil filters. We welcome

the opportunity to be of service.

Fram filters meet the requirements of the original equipment filter designed for a specific engine. Our

filter applications follow the recommendations of the vehicle manufacturer for form, fit, and function.

Fram filters follow internally targeted design guidelines to meet the functional requirements of a given

filter. Fram filters are tested against SAE standards to ensure uniform product quality and performance.

Material construction will vary between filter manufacturers. We believe Fram filters have a proven

record for providing reliability, superior quality, and engine protection over the service life of the filter.

A common misunderstanding among our customers concerns the end disks in the oil filter. These disks

hold the glue which keeps the pleated media formed into a rigid circular tube. The glue-to-media

interface is also one of the sealing surfaces keeping dirty and filtered oil from mixing. One common

myth is that only metal end disks can adequately seal and have enough strength in the hot oil

environment. For this reason, Fram filters are criticized for having cardboard end disks. The issue is, the

material doing the sealing is the adhesive, regardless of the material of the end disk. What matters is the

strength of the adhesive, its proper curing, the thoroughness with which it can be applied to the disk,

and its adhesion to the disk. By using cardboard end disks, Fram filter engineers are able to specify

adhesives with excellent strength and sealing properties, and strong adhesion to the disk (intuitively, it

is easy to make a strong glue bond with cardboard). Moreover, just as paper media itself is able to

withstand the hot oil environment, so too is the end disk designed of fibers engineered to be strong and

nert in hot oil. The thickness and strength of the adhesive also stiffens the end disk considerably.

Fram engineers perform hot oil circulation tests on the filter element and also regularly cut open used

filters to examine how well they have withstood the rigors of actual use on a vehicle. For over 38 years,

Fram end disks have stood up to hot oil and their adhesives have sealed off the dirty oil.

Fram's latest entry in the automotive oil filter market is the X2 Extended Guard oil filter. The Fram X2

Extended Guard filter uses a filter media that includes a reinforced mesh screen for maximum pleat

integrity, durability, and oil flow. The inclusion of the metal screen increased the glue tolerances or

thickness required for proper adhesion to the end disk. The original X2 prototype development specified

the cardboard end disk technology. However, the increased amount of adhesive required to join the

cardboard end disk to the screened media resulted in prototypes that did not conform to design

standards. We had no choice but to use a steel end disk with the X2 filter media to provide uniform

Extended Guard oil filter construction.

Fram automotive oil filters, including the standard Extra Guard and premium X2 Extended Guard

filters, have a micron rating of 10 micron.

If you require further assistance with Fram filter construction, please contact the Fram Engineering

Department directly at 1-419-661-6700.

Thank you for your interest in Fram filters.

Cordially, Scott Jacobs, Catalog/Technical Service Representative

 

Feel free to let loose with the hail of insidious comments directed at FRAM and at my use of their filters. Fire when ready Gridly!   

 

 

Well Sapper thank you for the response. Just for the record,  I personally could care less what oil filter you use nor what toilet paper either. And if by some coincidence you can make an economy of scale combining the two I applaud you sir! 

 

 

 

 

 Because now days, all FRAM oil filters are manufactured with either cellulose or other synthetic media. Which means they are right on par

with a most other companies.

 

First off, cellulose is NOT a synthetic media and so is not on par with other media like fiberglass mesh. Why?

 

Also as explained in the WIX comparison video, the spaces between the strands in cellulose are nonuniform in width which means the filtering ability will have great variation.  Some areas will have strands close together, restricting flow while others far apart letting contaminants through.  Here is a microscopic close up:

 

 

 

 

 

After All what is cardboard? Paper. What is one of the most common filtering medias used by oil filters? Paper.

 

Most cheapo oil filters use paper.  Toilet wipe is also made of paper. Coincidence?

 

 

 

 

Here is a letter from fram regarding their use of cardboard end caps:

 Mr. Lawrence:

Thank you for the e-mail regarding the construction and micron rating of Fram oil filters. We welcome

 

the opportunity to be of service. .....

 

 

Did you PERSONALLY write "Mr Lawrence" or just copy and paste it from a FRAM fanboy website?  Please cite the source for context if you did not personally write to FRAM.

 

I will give him credit for admitting the end-caps were cardboard. In the past they have danced around the term to mislead the public giving the end-cap material various euphemisms so as to avoid acknowledging it is really cardboard.  .

 

It is also interesting the lengths to which FRAM goes to convince the consumer that the cardboard end-caps are just as good as metal end-caps and their sheet paper (cellulose) filter media is just as good as fiber mesh reinforced material yet their more expensive (xtra guard etc) include steel end-caps and mesh reinforcement. You don't need a PhD in logic to see the original premise that is flawed. In short, if a paper end-cap and paper filter material were "on par" with steel end cap and mesh reinforced fiberglass, there simply would be no need for an "extra guard" or "x3" type FRAM filter as the originals would be be as good or better.

 

Feel free to let loose with the hail of insidious comments directed at FRAM and at my use of their filters. Fire when ready Gridly!

 

What is insidious is the FRAM marketing hype that tries to push off a filter made of an inferior material as being on par with a quality constructed filter.  Cheaper supply chain materials costs means larger corporate profits for FRAM and the retailer, not better filtration for the end user. And since the likelihood of any of their prospective customers having the financial means to prove an engine failure was caused by their products let alone pursue it in a court of law ($$$$), they are probably safe in their market space.

 

Your use of FRAM is your business. All we can do is offer our opinion and experiences. However If you ever post a TOD thread at some future date asking for help, don't be surprised if your use of FRAM filters is called out as a contributing factor.

 

But you will still be warmly welcomed at the next WCSS!

Edited April 12, 2015 by MR_Loyale

[Sapper 157]

Hmmm... I do love a good spot of logic, Watson ol boy.

 

Here is your source: http://www.gwrra-ohh2.org/pdf/oilfilter.pdf the letter is at the bottom of the pdf. As a matter of fact, it was not a "fanboy" website, but rather a review a guy did on a bunch of different oil filters. He was another FRAM hater, although for good reason, this was before fram discontinued their piece-of-crab economy series.

 

"It is also interesting the lengths to which FRAM goes to convince the consumer that the cardboard end-caps are just as good as metal end-caps and their sheet paper (cellulose) filter media is just as good as fiber mesh reinforced material yet their more expensive (xtra guard etc) include steel end-caps and mesh reinforcement. You don't need a PhD in logic to see the original premise that is flawed. In short, if a paper end-cap and paper filter material were "on par" with steel end cap and mesh reinforced fiberglass, there simply would be no need for an "extra guard" or "x3" type FRAM filter as the originals would be be as good or better."

 

Just to clear up some confusion, he ULTRA (sometimes called the Xtended Guard) in other words, the Xtended guard and theExtra guard are two different filters is the mesh reinforced filter.

 

The grave problem we have here is that your experiences and opinions (or perhaps those of your friends/family as well) are clashing with my experiences and opinions(and my familys and friends). Your opinion, if I am reading this correctly, is that FRAM is the devil and that all their factories should be burnt to the\ ground, their executives drug out and shot, and their employees lynched. This is of course a very, very, extreme example and more than likely is not your actual opinion. More than likely, all you really want is their production standards raised. BUT...Well... to be honest I like using extreme examples

 

My opinion is that FRAM is to be revered and all their filters are made of pure gold and are hand knit by angels. Again, a very extreme example and an unrealistic one. I recognize that FRAM has had issues with QC, but I think they are past that stage.

 

Our opinions clash; neither one of us is willing to yield our positions based on experiences, research ect. As long as they work, which thus far they have for my whole family for 25+ years, I have no problem with FRAM.

 

And dont worry, if/when I come crying to USMB about TOD, you'll be the first to know.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Sapper 157

[Subasaurus]

 

Well Sapper thank you for the response. Just for the record, I personally could care less what oil filter you use nor what toilet paper either. And if by some coincidence you can make an economy of scale combining the two I applaud you sir! !

lol that made me laugh pretty hard, haven't laughed like that in a while.. Edited April 12, 2015 by Subasaurus

[MR_Loyale]

Thanks for posting the source of that letter and the link.  The pdf begins  :

 

"Oil Filters come basically in three qualities. Very good, with excellent filtration; normal; and really
incredibly bad. This last category, really incredibly bad, should obviously be avoided. Accordingly, never
use a Fram, Pennzoil, Penske, Castrol, or Quaker State oil filter in any motor you like. All of these filters
are made by Fram."

 

 

For the record I don't think FRAM is the devil nor should their factory be burned to the ground and their employees are probably just trying to feed their families. The jury is still out on their executives however.

 

FRAM is the choice of Cheap Bastards (CB) everywhere. Now don't get me wrong, I am a cheap bastard at heart. Father time however has brought me to a new level of Cheap Bastard Enlightenment (CBE).  Because in every action you do there is a reaction.

 

If I choose to drink CB beer or wine (two buck Chuck) and save some bucks, I might find I get a reaction of gaseous rumblings and liquid poo the next day.  If I choose the CB bread I might save some bucks and but I won't get nutrition I need and maybe later I will fall ill with cancer due to the chemical fillers they use.  By the time you reach my age, you have either learned something from those experiences or you just do the same thing over until you die. If you learn from the previous experiences your CBE level goes up. 

 

If I use CB filters on my beloved Subaru, the thing that gives me freedom, I might get a reaction such that the Subaru doesn't move any more and I will have lost my freedom.  But that is where I draw the line my friend. They can take away my beer, my bread my toilet paper...

 

 

 

If your Subaru is still running this July-August I hope you make it to WCSS.

Edited April 12, 2015 by MR_Loyale

[MR_Loyale]

Also I avoid ARCO for their crap gas because they are the FRAM of gasoline. Just thought I'd throw that one out to keep the thread going.

 

Discuss.

 

[NV Zeno]

"It is the cheap man that pays the most for things." 

[Subasaurus]

i pump shell gasoline, and once every 5pumps of fulltanks or so i put the expensive one, a full tank of it. i only pump shell and HEB fuels but HEB is only a Texas thing so most of you wouldn't know what it is.

[Sapper 157]

I only use E10 when I absolutely have to. Normally I run nothing but non-ethanol 87 octane.  

[capmarvelous]

Well the good thing is if I run out of toilet paper I can always reach for the Fram filter the pleated paper should make for a thorough wipe.

[Subasaurus]

Well the good thing is if I run out of toilet paper I can always reach for the Fram filter the pleated paper should make for a thorough wipe.

yes, if your ever in the forest and you really need to go, you remove your oil filter, take it apart and use that, or just keep a bunch of fram filters in the tool compartment in the back and some sheet metal cutters and your set for your trip.

[loyale1993]

Loyale,

I am the tech manager at FRAM. If you give me the year and model and (engine size is 1.8) I can send you the correct filter part number. As for those in here bashing FRAM, are you aware that FRAM manufactures Subaru OE filters for Subaru?

Thank you but I found the correct filter using the Fram website. I was not aware that Fram is the OE for Subaru. I have used fram filters everytime I do my own oil change. My thoughts are that it is a disposable part so why spend the extra money. 

 

Hey Sapper you make a valid argument with the evidence you have provided

 

EDIT:

Annnnnndddd there is a second page of comments that I just saw lol.

 

MR_Loyale very excellent rebuttal. You and Sapper are too funny I am enjoying the banter.  

Edited April 14, 2015 by loyale1993

[The FNG]

Here's a good one I found while researching this topic...http://www.austincc.edu/wkibbe/oilfilterstudy.htm

[Sapper 157]

Here's a good one I found while researching this topic...http://www.austincc.edu/wkibbe/oilfilterstudy.htm

Like I said, FRAM has had some issues, but that study was done years ago and I believe that since this study has taken place, FRAM manufacturing standards have improved immensely. This was also before they introduced xtended guard, which does have metal endcaps, a silicone bypass valve, dual layered synthetic media, and a wire mesh reinforcement. I still find it hard to believe that FRAM was as bad as people say they were even back then though, because my dad ran (and still runs) FRAM extra guard on our family's vehicles... NEVER had an issue. 

[nickoalleno]

I recently did a oil change on my 93 Subaru loyale ea82n/a SPFI 1.8. I bought the Wix Oil Filter part number 513161 and it did not fit. Luckily my local auto parts store replaced it with a k&n, the only one that fit, free of charge. Be aware.

[hatchsub]

I have one bad experience with a fram filter which will steer me away from them forever.  On the first oil change of my 'new to me' 360 magnum in my dodge truck i removed the fram filter that the previous owner had put on and found out there was NO oil in it.  Now this motor does not have an oiling problem and runs great with good oil pressure but the frams from what i read do not have an anti-drainback valve and all the moving of the motor from one truck to the other caused all the oil to return to the pan.  I would personally like oil in the filter on first startup.  

Edited October 15, 2015 by hatchsub