1996 Impreza engine are noise

[lstevens76]

So I looked at a 96 Impreza Outback today and I am interested, but there is an odd noise from the engine compartment that I'm unsure about.

 

So, I'm attacking the audio (would have been video but my phone was to dead).

 

Opinions?

 

The change in the sound was I moved my phone from the passenger side of the engine to the front and around there.  I didn't realize it was picking up such an obvious change in sound as it moved around.  It does sound more near the passenger side than the drivers side.

 

Also, to note, at the time the PS Pump was basically close to empty as well.  The pump is leaking and needs replaced, so that is a possibility.

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Edited April 7, 2015 by lstevens76

[1 Lucky Texan]

hard to say about the sound. On my laptop, best guess would be a bearing. perhaps accesory belt tensioner ? If you could be allowed to briefly run the car with the belts removed, that might help pin-down the noise source.

 

also, PS systems on Soobs frequently suck air in thru bad o-rings or hose connections (even cracked fluid tanks) from the suction side of the reservoir. this can cause enough foaming/bubbles to push a little fluid out the reservoir. But fluid at the pump itself could be something more serious.

Edited April 7, 2015 by 1 Lucky Texan

[lstevens76]

The leak on the reservoir is obvious.  It almost appears that the seal between the top and bottom half the reservoir is shot.

 

Yeah, I was thinking bearing as well.  Specifically I was thinking timing belt idler bearings, which is what my cousin (he's a sub fan) things as well. 

 

The sound was done w/ the timing belt covers off.  Although the belt has been done recently along with the water pump he didn't know to do the idlers so they could be original.

 

Basically it's a '96 Impreza Outback w/ the 2.2L and Auto.  It has 175k on it (I think it was 173 something, but rounding  up).  The guy is a "sort of" backyard mechanic who appears to get easily distracted (i.e. did the timing belt, put it back together to test, then didn't take it back apart to put the covers back on).  A lot of little things here and there but it seems to run good and it's well under a grand.

[1 Lucky Texan]

When I did my WRX , the toothed idler was rough-feeling and slightly wobbly - spun like skate wheel. One other idler also was very loose as well. Belt looked great.

 

belts seem to be tough, but when a roller pukes its bearings, that can cause issues for some of us. At least a 2.2 won't lunch its valves if the timing slips.

[Fairtax4me]

The o-ring between the ps pump and reservoir does go bad. Easy change, only takes a few minutes, but if the pump was run empty you may be better off to replace it.

 

Agreed on the timing idlers. Hard to tell exactly what it is but if they haven't been replaced they need to be.

I've noticed that even with brand new idlers these tend to whine a bit, so some noise will be normal.

 

Also be sure to check the AC belt idler. It has a replaceable 6203 bearing that fails fairly often. Can get the bearing at Napa for under $10.

[lstevens76]

AC Belt isn't even on.  The system did have some freon in it, so if it is leaking it's a minor leak since it's had the belt off for over a year.  I'm not worried about the AC at the moment as I know how to fix that and it doesn't affect "Drive-ability" here, other than making it hot to drive come summer.

 

I believe the pump has been run dry so I figured on replacing it and it's good to know about that bearing for any Subaru I get.

 

The actual major issues with this that I found are:

 

1.)  That noise, which everyone seems to agree is probably timing belt idlers.

 

2.)  Timing Belt Covers need replaced (non-existent)

 

3.)  Speedometer cable is non-functional (broke at either the top, bottom, or both).

 

4.)  Left Front Fender needs replaced (not immediately, but not realistically repairable)

 

5.)  Left Front Door needs replaced (same as fender)

 

6.) Right Rear Door needs replaced (this one is possibly repairable, but I'm not a body guy)

 

7.)  Needs Tires

 

8.)  Power Steering Pump needs replaced

 

The Good:

 

All the windows works, it starts right up and runs fine.  No noises from the front or rear end when driving (drove it around the block a few times wobbled the steering ,etc... looking for problems)

 

Heater works fine, tach works, etc...  Seats are in good shape, carpet near drivers side door needs work but that was it for the interior.  

 

New Windshield no cracks in any of the glass.

[1 Lucky Texan]

if the steeering feels OK, I'd just look in the reservoir for bubbles/foam while idling. If none, I'd pursue the noise issue further or run the car without the PS belt. to see if the pump is causing the noise. If not, run the pump til it becomes a real issue. (if you do see bubbles, just start with o-rings, hose clamps w'ever)

 

Edited April 7, 2015 by 1 Lucky Texan

[lstevens76]

Bought for $450. Comments on how I did?

 

I'll post the pictures later

Edited April 8, 2015 by lstevens76

[Rooster2]

When I did my WRX , the toothed idler was rough-feeling and slightly wobbly - spun like skate wheel. One other idler also was very loose as well. Belt looked great.

 

belts seem to be tough, but when a roller pukes its bearings, that can cause issues for some of us. At least a 2.2 won't lunch its valves if the timing slips.

Pretty sure that a 96 model 2.2 engine is an interference motor, so if timing belt slips or breaks, it can take out the valves.

[lstevens76]

It's an EJ22, standard. Not a ZZ, etc.... It is a non-interference motor just like the 1990 Legacy parked in front of my house.

 

Pictures. As I said it's a little beat up, but 99% of the damage is all on changeable parts. This is a project for me so mechanical things first then I'll work on the body/interior. He threw in a nice JVC stereo but doesn't know if it works (someone tried to steal the stereo that was in it).

Edited April 8, 2015 by lstevens76

[Fairtax4me]

Afaik the speedometer is electronic on that one. No cable.

 

Good deal for $450. Fix 'r up and ride!

[WoodsWagon]

If the doors still open and shut fine, I'd ignore the dents. But I've taken all my vehicles in the woods, so I've accepted dents as a inevitability. Put the money you would have spent on doors on a new set of struts from a 98 legacy Outback and get new 205/70r15 tires. Then it will have the ground clearance to tempt you to go put more dents in it.

 

Timing belt covers don't really matter unless you go into deep snow. I've had snow walk a belt over enough teeth on the crank pulley to stop the engine.

[lstevens76]

For me this is the kind of project I've been looking for.  I can drive it and through money at it when I have it to fix things.  I like the body style and to me it has loads of potential.  From what I've noticed a good 2.2L engine is worth as much as I paid for the whole car.

 

But I have to set my priorities and it has a list, I do mean a list.  

 

First, I've read up on the speedometer cable, and a '96 should still be a cable, and I believe I've located the tranny side.  What I can't figure out is how it comes apart.  I've read that both the insert into the transmission, the cable itself, and the gear inside the transmission could all be suspect so before I go scrounging parts at a junk yard I want to figure out which one it is.  Any help?

 

Second, the blower motor doesn't work.  It was a nice day out here yesterday so when I test drove it I didn't even think to check it.  The heat definitely works as it blows nice warm air on hot but the blower is obviously not coming on at any speed.

 

All of the rest of the issues will wait until I get matching tires on it and the speedometer fixed.  Until those two things are done I can't differentiate what is tires or problems due to not getting the right speed information, etc....

[lstevens76]

If the doors still open and shut fine, I'd ignore the dents. But I've taken all my vehicles in the woods, so I've accepted dents as a inevitability. Put the money you would have spent on doors on a new set of struts from a 98 legacy Outback and get new 205/70r15 tires. Then it will have the ground clearance to tempt you to go put more dents in it.

 

Timing belt covers don't really matter unless you go into deep snow. I've had snow walk a belt over enough teeth on the crank pulley to stop the engine.

 

Thank you for the info on struts from a 98 Legacy.  I was actually thinking it probably needed struts and was considering junkyarding them anyways so going for those out of a 98 legacy would be just as easy as an impreza.

 

As for the dents they will get fixed "AFTER" all my mechanical concerns are done.  Have to have it safe and fit to drive all the time before I worry about a few dings.

 

This car actually won't be going up in the woods a whole lot.  I have a Dodge Durango for that.  This will be my around town and trip car.  If I can get it safe enough by June or July I'm going from Boise, ID to Eugene, OR to see family.

[Rooster2]

The blower motor can become inoperable if leaves and gunk drop down from the bottom of the windshield to bind up the motor. That is very common with Subies. It is not difficult to get to the blower motor to see if that is the problem. Helps to remove the glove box to gain access.

 

I had similar problem, and was ready to install a motor from a yard, when I figured out the problem. Blower motor worked good as new after cleaning out the accumulated crap.

[lstevens76]

So, to update the whole scenario.  After driving it last night and this morning/evening I discovered something new that is the most pressing matter now until I know what it is (then I might back burner it).

 

When going over bumps, need to be going over 15/20 mph, I get something I can only describe as a "springy" or "wobbly" noise.  At faster speeds this transmits to the steering wheel w/ a wobble in it (30/35+ mph).

 

If your old enough and remember the springs you could "spring" and they would take a few seconds to go back but would make that "springy" sound that is what it sounds like.  I know, weird noise.

 

Anyone have any ideas?

 

And I think I figured out how to disconnect the speedometer at the transmission.  Is it those retainer clips then just pull it out?

[Fairtax4me]

Kinda sounds like worn out struts. Time to jack it up and take all the wheels off and carefully inspect all of the suspension parts.

[lstevens76]

I'm thinking Struts as well and they are on sale right now if I do all 4 (although not sure I'm prepared to spend that much right this second).  But, I hate jumping into a project without knowing for sure and I really hate doing things half-a**.  There are two places here that usually will do a free full check on the front end on a hoist and give me an idea of what's wrong so if I dive into it I can do everything that's wrong, instead of just 1 thing.  (I.E. it could struts and ball joints or something like that).

 

Now, to add more I should have added last night:

 

Pulled codes and got P0325 (unexpected), P0441 (unexpected) and P0500 (expected since the speedo doesn't work).  

 

After pulling codes I cleared them and some came back (haven't retested yet).  I drove about 3 miles to my sons school and parked in line to pick him up.  When the line started moving it wouldn't start again, just crank and crank and crank.  Pushed it out of the way and opened the hood.  I was thinking ECT, but with a hot engine I couldn't easily get to it so I unplugged the one sensor I could easily get to, the MAF, and it started.  I won't guarantee that's the problem but every time I plugged it back in for the first couple tries it wouldn't start.  I banged on it a little and plugged it back in then it started and ran fine again.  

 

Overall it does run fine.  I do hit the rev limiter if I'm moving down the road in anything but 1st gear and go somewhere over 4k rpm.  I believe that is due to the malfunctioning (non-working) speedometer.  

 

I'm open to all advice, but I'm also documenting this stuff for my own future reference.  

 

EDIT:  Oh, I also have that "in gear" vibration that seems to be pretty common with no sure cause.  The vibration that only happens when its in reverse or forward drive gears on the auto, but no in N or P.

Edited April 9, 2015 by lstevens76

[pontoontodd]

So, to update the whole scenario.  After driving it last night and this morning/evening I discovered something new that is the most pressing matter now until I know what it is (then I might back burner it).

 

When going over bumps, need to be going over 15/20 mph, I get something I can only describe as a "springy" or "wobbly" noise.  At faster speeds this transmits to the steering wheel w/ a wobble in it (30/35+ mph).

 

If your old enough and remember the springs you could "spring" and they would take a few seconds to go back but would make that "springy" sound that is what it sounds like.  I know, weird noise.

 

Anyone have any ideas?

 

And I think I figured out how to disconnect the speedometer at the transmission.  Is it those retainer clips then just pull it out?

 

If your steering is wobbling, the first thing you should check is the u-jointed steering shaft that connects the column to the rack.  You may have to remove it to tell for sure if it's bad.  At a minimum watch it while someone else rocks the steering wheel back and forth slightly and watch if you can see any slop.  Not super hard to replace.  I had an old VW with dried up steering u joints that was sloppy enough to cause the wobble you're talking about.

Another thing I had to replace on my car was the rack.  You could rock the driver's side of the rack up and down in the housing a signficant amount, say 1/16" of an inch.  It should be rock solid.  More difficult to replace but not too bad.

You should also check the inner and outer tie rod ends.  Pretty easy to replace if you have the right tools.

Check the lower balljoints and wheel bearings too.

A lot of those components were in need of replacement when I got my Outback but haven't had to be replaced a second time, even after a lot of off road abuse.

 

The best way to check all this is to jack the front end of the car up and rock the tire by the top and bottom.  If it is at all sloppy, try to see if it's the balljoint or wheel bearing that's moving.

Then rock it in a steering motion (front and back of the tire).  You can really only see the outer tie rod but should be able to tell if there's any slop in the steering system.  Watch the steering wheel through the windshield to see if you have any slop.

If everything is in good shape, you should not be able to feel any slop in either direction.

 

If you have enough time on your hands, remove the front struts and remove the front springs (make sure to do that safely with spring compressors).  You will be able to tell if the struts are bad if there's no resistance up or down or if they have any slop side to side.  Check that the springs don't have a coil broken off too.

[lstevens76]

Well one place says they think it's one or both front axles. They also said the struts are shot, which I already thought.

 

Speedometer will be fixed tomorrow. It was that stupid little adapter. The slotted end was simply non-existent when I pulled it out.

Edited April 9, 2015 by lstevens76

[lstevens76]

pontoontodd - I may have time next week but if the Legacy sells this weekend I'm thinking about just doing all 4 struts with KYB OEM Replacements.  They are just over $200 from rock auto and then a $40 rebate.  

 

Between the knock sensor, speedo cable part, tires, and then the struts mechanically I'm hoping this thing will be good to go.  I'm putting the knock sensor, speedo cable, and a PCV valve in it tomorrow.

[lstevens76]

my pretty looking basically brand new set of toy eclipse I found on CL for $100. That was all 4 tires, rims, and hubcaps. they came off a 1994 Plymouth Sundance it was rear ended two weeks after the tires were put on.

Edited April 10, 2015 by lstevens76

[lstevens76]

Ok, it's been a long tiring day.  I didn't make it to Jalopy Jungle (our local pick a part) nor Barger (LKQ) auto parts (used parts store).  But I did get a lot accomplished.

 

First started out the day doing the knock sensor.  It seems I have a 1995 Knock Sensor on a 1996 OBS, but the problem is fixed.  I didn't think it could run much better, but it does.

 

I then went and picked up the tires above, already mounted on 5x100 14" rims.  They are Toyo Eclipse and when Discount put them on and measured the tread they are literally still brand new (no tread wear showing).  Got those for $100 and the rims bolted right up.

 

I also managed to get wiper blades on it and got the outside washed, but the inside is still nasty and I'm hoping to get to that this weekend. 

 

I picked up the part for the speedo fix, and that well hasn't been going well.  I do have a post up about it though.

 

I also picked up the PVC, but haven't done that yet.

 

I'm now getting a P0441 but that could be due to me  having something back on incorrectly.  I'm not going to mess with that code until the speedo sensor is fixed because I'm just going to be pulling the air cleaner back off again.

 

I also know I need a thermostat.  I'm hoping there is one in it that is just malfunctioning.  I have never seen it hot, but this was the first day we got over 70 since I've owned it.  When I drove from Meridian to Nampa (about 13 miles) I noticed at a stop sign I was "warm", not boiling hot.  The minute I started moving it went down fine and didn't seem to rise like that again.  But the other day on the interstate it dropped way low.  I'm thinking a sticky malfunctioning thermostat.  Sometimes it sticks open, other times it sticks closed until RPM's go  up and the water pressure kicks it open.

 

Oh, I also got a stereo in it and the center console trim that was missing.  It appeared (forgot to ask) that someone tried to steal the stereo without a screwdriver.  Ripped out the trim pieces, ripped the face and plastic behind the face off the deck.  It was an older alpine and the ********* who installed it cut the harness and wired the alpine harness in direct, don't know how I'm going to rectify that yet.  I found a used alpine deck of the same era w/ the same harness plug on Craigslist for $20 and now I have music/cd.  The speakers actually sound good in it.

 

Here is what I mean by a "nasty" interior.  Just to note the the altnerator, window switch, blue jacket, empty milk bottle, tools (that black box in the back w/ the duffle bag), the empty MD Throwback, and the stuff on the passenger seat is mine.  All the stuff in the way back was there when I bought it.  That dirt on the back seat, there when I bought it.  I think those are the floor mats on the passenger side floor, but I haven't even had the time to get them out of the car.

 

Edited April 11, 2015 by lstevens76