Transmission problems after TCU "update"

[Gloyale]

Okay....so this is general question, really more of a survey.

 

Has anyone experienced a complete lack of shifting in a 4EAT equipped 2008+ Legacy after a TCU software "update"?

 

The car in question is a 2008 legacy sedan w/4eat.   With a recently installed Subaru optional Remote start setup.  I physically installed the remote start kit.  Excactly according to instructions down to last detail.

 

The key fobs were "talking" correctly to the box.  Put the unit through the Idle speed programming.  Checked all key fobs chirped the system, brake pedal canceled, etc......Every step of the instructions followed and checked out good.

 

The only step I did not complete to finalize was the "interlock transmitter" code program.  To those not familiar, this model and all newer have a RF chip in the key, so that even if the ignition is physically turned, the engine will not start without the proper key with RF chip matching that car.  The reciever is built into the ignition cylinder.

 

Now, obviously for remote start there is no key present....that's were the interlock transmitter comes in....it has an antenna that loops around the ignition cylinder, and after programmed emits a mimic signal of the RF chip to allow starter engagement.  Basically fools the system into thinking there is a key present.  This programming can only be done using Subaru Select Monitor computer/softwware (SSMIII) which I don't have..also requires all keys. and the RF code.....which we do have since the car was purchased by us brand new.

 

So....we make an appointment with delaership where the remote starter kit was purchased.  Appointment 1 week out....no problem, car starts and drives normaly with no CEL or other issues when started with regular key.  Drive car for one week in the mean time....no problems whatsoever.........drop it off for programming on a friday......when we get the car back wednesday of the following week.....the remote start has been programed and now fully functions. 

 

Here's were it gets weird.  For some reason, the dealership says their tech "had to" reflash the TCU software with an update.  And now the AT temp light flashes, CEL and CRUISE, traction control, and ABS lights all on.  Dealer says "it's just the lights, car drives fine"  but claims both the TCU and the transmission valve body need replaced....cost, $1950 dollars!!!! 

 

He then say's if the TCU does fail further the car will not drive and we will be stuck "like it's in Nuetral or park"  I know this to not be the case. Default from loss of electronic control is 3rd gear mechanical operation...but I don't bother to correct him....I just want to get the car out of there.

 

I am very suspect.  we take the car home......from the first minute driving I can tell the trans is in "limp" mode.  3rd gear only.  I confirm this with "sport mode" trying to manually select gears to no avail.

 

So the car is screwed up bigtime.  I am refraining from posting any further information on the dealer, the alterations to they made that deviate from subaru install instruction, and a few other infuriating tidbits until the SOA representative I called can try to remedy the situation through said dealer.  (SOA rep listened attentively, and seemed genuinely interested in helping)

 

So for now I am just wondering if anyone else has had trans issues immediately following a "TCU" software update or a remote start install.

 

I will note that I've confirmed with other, trusted dealer techs that TCU update should not have been needed for a simple RF interlock transmitter programming.

 

Discuss

Edited April 13, 2015 by Gloyale

[john in KY]

I'm not a transmission guy but have taken a few apart for no good reasons and recall the valve body is just a hunk of metal with a lot of passageways and ball bearings. So how can a valve body fail? If this was my problem and would really want an explanation from the dealer that explained what caused the valve body to fail. I would also want it explained to me why the TCU had to be touched because of the remote start addition. Heck, I would want both explanations in writing and then I would send copies to SOA. 

[Crazyeights]

Me wonders why the TCU firmware was EVEN TOUCHED without the owners permission   I would not be amused at all. Keep us posted and good luck!

[nipper]

You know, lets try simple and a long shot. If they flashed the computer, i bet someone forgot to unplug the green connectors under the dash that are only used for flashing the computer. Lets start there. You may need to remove the knee panel, but my gut tells me its to dramatic for such a simple thing, and this checks all the boxes.

[Gloyale]

Okay, still no word fropm SOA or the dealership.....But you all raised some of the same thoughts I had....so I will add a bit more info.

 

John.  This is an electroncially controlled trans....there are 8 or 9 solenoids in the trans that do control shifting.....but the possibility of the car working fine on Friday and the Vavle body being bad on Wednesday is unlikely.  They routinely go 200k+ miles without failure.....this car has 64k.

 

Subaru's instructions for mounting hte Remote start box include velcro and a Ziptie and specify to secure the box to the TCU.  Just Physically....no electronic intreraction but you do have to "touch" the TCU to install it.  I did this excactly per instructions.  And again the car was fine for 1 week before dropping off at dealer. 

 

CrazyEights.  Yes!!! this is the issue.  No "updates" requested.  They didn't call and ask us to do it.  And curiously they did NOT note this supposed "update" on the service reciept given.  Only a $2000 dollar estimate to "Fix" their mistake. And a note the the "front antenna" was not installed correct for the remote start kit.  This is crap.  They didn't move the antenna at all.  And the key fobs were interacting with the remote start box normally for all of the instructions.  When you pressed the buttons the car would enter "run" mode, doors locked like it was gonna start, but because of the interlock the engine would not actually start.  after 30 secs the system would turn back off after sensing no start.   This is all as described in the instructons and performing normally. 

 

Nip....I don't know about green connectors in this year.  Thought it all done through the OBDII port with SSMIII.  But I did pull the lower panel to see if perhapss they left the TCU unplugged.  Everything was normall except the had Cut the Ziptie installed by me, securing the Remote start box and interlock box to the TCU.  They left the Remote start box dangling under the dash.  Not a good sign of work quality.

 

One more note.  I told my cousin, who is the actual owner of the car and the one who dropped it off to dealer, to give them the Installation instructions that came with the kit, and circled the proceedure on the last page about programming the RF code into the interlock.  They told her "we don't need it".  This is strange to me. 

 

This particular dealership just began selling subarus last year.  They bought out the previous dealer, and moved all the business to the next town over.  They were and still are primarily a Chevy/Caddilac/GMC dealer.  They did not retain the subaru techs.  So this likely would be the first time the tech had performed the RF programming on a 2008 model.  And he tried to do it without instructions.  I feel this may be part of the problem. 

 

 

More details to come if I don't here from SOA today.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Gloyale

[Fairtax4me]

You did inform SOA that the dealer performed an TCU flash and Did Not note it on the service ticket?

That's a big no-no.

As far as I'm aware they can perform an update without authorization Only if there is a Recall campaign concerning the TCU, but it has to be noted 1 on the receipt, and 2 with SOA that the recall was performed. Has to be a Recall though. Just a TSB doesn't count.

 

I would definitely go looking around for unplugged or damaged wiring or connectors. Also, check the bottom of the car. Trans pan have fresh dents in it?

 

A reflash doesn't require unplugging or even removal the TCU. The only reason I can see to remove it is maybe to look at it to get a serial number off of it. Shoddy work for them to not reattach the remote start boxes back where you had them.

[Gloyale]

You did inform SOA that the dealer performed an TCU flash and Did Not note it on the service ticket?

That's a big no-no.

As far as I'm aware they can perform an update without authorization Only if there is a Recall campaign concerning the TCU, but it has to be noted 1 on the receipt, and 2 with SOA that the recall was performed. Has to be a Recall though. Just a TSB doesn't count.

I would definitely go looking around for unplugged or damaged wiring or connectors. Also, check the bottom of the car. Trans pan have fresh dents in it?

A reflash doesn't require unplugging or even removal the TCU. The only reason I can see to remove it is maybe to look at it to get a serial number off of it. Shoddy work for them to not reattach the remote start boxes back where you had them.

I did look at thier work. Nothing unplugged. SOA called me today in the early afternoon and said sorry we won't do anything. I said then you will have a lawsuit and a web page devoted to is that I will make sure comes up first thing on Google, bing, yahoo, and ask.

 

I reiterated that by the dealers own admission, there was no problem until the work they performed. They claimed " it was going bad and the new software made it recognize the problem. BS. Conversely, they are also admitting the car had no problem when it went in. I told them This was there last chance to get a new dealer that was poorly representing their product and company to "make it right". And I reminded them of the vastly increased competition in the crossover market, and that we may, for the first time in 15 years NOT purchase a Subaru. (This particular branch of fam has purchased 3 brand new subies, CASH, in the last 7 years from the dealer that these guys bought out and absorbed)

 

They called back a few hours later. Said to take the car to another dealer a bit further away, but they have been selling/servicing Subaru for 30 years. Of course it will be on our own dime for now, and depending on what they find SOA. Might help. At least it's a step. But we have still consulted a lawyer and will wait for his advise before agreeing to that plan.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Gloyale

[Silent Bob]

Before things get totally out of hand, look under the dash, just left of the column, and make sure the TCM is fully plugged in.  Unplug the connectors to the TCM and reconnect them, ensuring that they "click" into place.  I can envision a scenario where the TCM was unplugged somewhere along the line and one or more of the connectors is not fully seated.

[ccrinc]

What makes me even more suspicious is why they even touched the valve body.  You needed minor electronic work done, they did not have to open up the transmission at all.  It almost sounds like they got 2 cars mixed up and did work to yours that should have been done on another.  Why else to even consider the VB? 

Were you charged for the ~8 qts. ATF they would have had to replace?  I'm sure you know that they have to remove the pan to get to the valve body. 

Doesn't  your state have a law that requires explicit authorization for any repair costs over a certain amount? If they do, that's grounds for a suit right there.

 

Lots of questions here that need to be answered.

[Gloyale]

Before things get totally out of hand, look under the dash, just left of the column, and make sure the TCM is fully plugged in.  Unplug the connectors to the TCM and reconnect them, ensuring that they "click" into place.  I can envision a scenario where the TCM was unplugged somewhere along the line and one or more of the connectors is not fully seated.

I check that first thing.  The Remote Start Unit and RF interlock unit were secured, as per instructions to the TCU......I say were because that's how I installed it excaclty as described in subaru instructions.  After recieving the car back, the Remote start unit and interlock were not secured as they were, but were dangling under the dash next to the TCU......TCU looked disturbed, but was in fact plugged in. (2 large connectors)

 

What makes me even more suspicious is why they even touched the valve body.  You needed minor electronic work done, they did not have to open up the transmission at all.  It almost sounds like they got 2 cars mixed up and did work to yours that should have been done on another.  Why else to even consider the VB? 

Were you charged for the ~8 qts. ATF they would have had to replace?  I'm sure you know that they have to remove the pan to get to the valve body. 

Doesn't  your state have a law that requires explicit authorization for any repair costs over a certain amount? If they do, that's grounds for a suit right there.

 

Lots of questions here that need to be answered.

 

CCR, to be clear, they did not acutaly do anything to the Valve body yet.  They suggested it needed repalced but had not actually opened the trans.  I don't think.

 

One though I had last night is why would the ENTIRE valve body need replaced.  Even if one or two solenoids were bad, the trans would not be in full mechanical limp mode.  It would throw codes and shift oddly, but still would shift. 

 

Trans currently operates as if the TCU was entirely disconnected from the Trans......although all wiring is intact and inplace.  This just cannot be the case that the entire valve body needs replaced.

 

 

Another note.....Upon inspection of their "estimate" to fix valve body......the labor rate seems very low.....and there is no listed charge for gaskets and seals that would be needed for such a job.  They estimated $1700 for the TCU and VB, but only $220 labor and $30 fluids.  Pretty low for such major work. 

 

It's as if they know they screwed up but don't know what.......so they want to replace everything....and they tried to make the "estimate" as low as possible so that maybe we would just say "okay do it" to cover their rump roast.

[Crazyeights]

It could still be a fairly simple repair in the hands of someone that KNOWS what they are doing. The problem is most of 'those' people are being sent home and replaced by younger cheaper help. It really sounds to me like the trans is still in 'limp - default' mode. Have you had a scan tool hooked up to it? Can you get any data from the trans controller?

[Gloyale]

Subaru has procedures for testing TCU output signals and Solenoid operation.  Such as Voltage output at TCU pins, Resistance values of solenoids, and hydraulic line pressure at the test ports on trans in various states.

 

To my knowledge......Non of these tests were performed to try to determine exactly which components are supposedly bad.  They mearly claimed the TCU "can't read" the valve body so both need replaced.

[Gloyale]

It could still be a fairly simple repair in the hands of someone that KNOWS what they are doing. The problem is most of 'those' people are being sent home and replaced by younger cheaper help. It really sounds to me like the trans is still in 'limp - default' mode. Have you had a scan tool hooked up to it? Can you get any data from the trans controller?

 

I am not touching it anymore.  I don't want to give them any reason to say I screwed it up.

 

We are possibly going to take it to another, more experienced dealership and have them try to properly reflash the TCU.  Or at least test Line Pressures, TCU I/O voltages, and solenoids resistance to rule out that rediculous assertion by the first dealer.

 

However....I am concerned the second will "circle the wagons" and simply say "oh yeah it needs that work".  Falsely confirming the first dealership's BS.  Then we will have a 2 against one scenario. I want to trust this second dealer but I don't know for sure whether I can.   I hate this.  It's making me physically ill.  

 

Waiting on doing anything today until the lawyer gets back to me.

 

I may just buy a new or reman TCU and wash my hands this dealership.  They are losing valuable customers. and If I have to do that I will release the dealership's name and post it all over the net so it will be unavoidable to search subaru sales or repair in this area without it coming up.

 

BTW, this is not an Oregon dealership........I am far away from home (and my scan tools) in another state.  Clue....it starts with a "P" and ends in an "vania"

[Crazyeights]

I'm sorry to hear that you are stuck in the middle of this mess, especially far away from home   I hope it gets resolved soon.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Crazyeights

[Gloyale]

Thanks all for the support. This thread may become evidence in the lawsuit.

[Fairtax4me]

I think we've heard of this dealer before. The story is familiar... bought out by GM dealer, poor service tactics... 

[Silent Bob]

 

   They mearly claimed the TCU "can't read" the valve body so both need replaced.

 

Communication problem:  first thing I would do is start checking fuses, particularly anything 7.5a

 

Option 2, is that during the "update" something went awry and it bricked the TCM.  May be possible to retry and recover it (never had that happen myself, so not absolutely sure)

 

 

  only $220 labor and $30 fluids. Pretty low for such major work

 

R&R valve body looks to be 1.8hours according to Mitchell,  so not out of line.  Sounds harder than it is.

 

 

Another, more experienced dealer sounds like a good option here.  Most are only too happy to point out what someone else has screwed up...

 

 

 

[ccrinc]

Are you, by any chance, near Harrisburg, PA?  If so, I highly recommend Faulkner Subaru.  I can give you the name of the Service Mgr. there.  He knows his stuff and we've done business with them for years.

[Gloyale]

Are you, by any chance, near Harrisburg, PA?  If so, I highly recommend Faulkner Subaru.  I can give you the name of the Service Mgr. there.  He knows his stuff and we've done business with them for years.

 

Harrisburg is aabout 2-1/2 hours away.h

 

 

 

Communication problem:  first thing I would do is start checking fuses, particularly anything 7.5a

 

 

 

 

 

I've done that.  All fuses check out.  All wires connectors plugged in.  I  checked all the simple/obvious

[Gloyale]

Are you, by any chance, near Harrisburg, PA?  If so, I highly recommend Faulkner Subaru.  I can give you the name of the Service Mgr. there.  He knows his stuff and we've done business with them for years.

PM sent

[Gloyale]

So the car has been taken and diagnosed at a more experienced dealer.

 

Unfortunately, whatever improper action that was performed at first dealership fried the TCU, and apparently shift solenoid C. Fried. No resistance through its coil. And being such a late production 4eat, will need entire new valve body.

 

So we will be spending $2500 out of pocket and filling suit to recover damages from either SOA or dealership.

 

Worst Subaru repair experience of my 20+years in Subaru's. My aunt who has purchased 2 brand new subies in the last 8 years, will not buy another. Says she's getting a jeep.

[Fairtax4me]

Ouch. Still gotta wonder why they were doing anything with the TCU in the first place.

 

Don't worry, your aunt will be back in a Subaru after that jeep.

[foxgap]

just curious, cause we are looking for a new Soob, did the first dealership start with a C and was in A-------town?

[hankosolder2]

So the car has been taken and diagnosed at a more experienced dealer.

Unfortunately, whatever improper action that was performed at first dealership fried the TCU, and apparently shift solenoid C. Fried. No resistance through its coil. And being such a late production 4eat, will need entire new valve body.

So we will be spending $2500 out of pocket and filling suit to recover damages from either SOA or dealership.

Worst Subaru repair experience of my 20+years in Subaru's. My aunt who has purchased 2 brand new subies in the last 8 years, will not buy another. Says she's getting a jeep.

Not sure why she's blaming the manufacturer for this. An incompetent dealer tech can screw up any brand of car. Or is she angry because SOA won't pay for the damages the first dealer caused?