tysn Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 I am aware that the 95-98 ej22's are a direct bolt in for the ej25d, what about the 90-94 ej22 blocks? will they bolt up to a ej25 intake and exhaust? I am aware the 90-94 ej22's do not have the EGR in the heads but if i bolt a ej25d intake to the heads will the engine run anyways until i make make one work? i know a 25d head will bolt up to a ej22 block as a backwards frankenmotor, but using what head gasket? the reason for all of these questions is that i had my 99 SUS in the shop about a month ago for the total rebuilding of the heads on the motor, fast forward 3 weeks my car starts misfiring and runs like something between a jack hammer and a sewing machine. i put on a new coil but i still have the sound, i also tried to isolate the sound by unhooking one spark plug at a time to see if i could rule out a rod bearing but it knocked through all plug wires. i took the car into a shop to see what the issue was thinking it could be the tensioner on the timing belt maybe had been defective, ( all timing components were changed with the timing belt along with the water and oil pumps) , they proclaimed that the noise was coming from inside the bottom of the block, something attached to the crankshaft, i have elected to do a ej22 swap to get this car back on the road. any help or information would be greatly appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted April 13, 2015 Share Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) HI, Did your searching find my POST on EGR info? Keep looking on here, but the quick answer is: - Any EJ22 from '90-'98, Legacy or Impreza w/the intake manifold (IM) from any EJ22 EGR-equipped '95-'98 Subaru will work. (EJ25D IM will NOT fit EJ22e heads). Again - the head need not have the EGR port, but the IM must or you'll get a CEL and no one has yet to figure out a work-around. - '96-'98 heads are SINGLE-port exhaust - you'll need the Y-pipe. It connects to your '99's exhaust, too. - '99 had additional mount points on the bellhousing - Does NOT matter - the older style EJ22 bolts up as does the starter. - Use the flywheel/flexplate that matches your TRANS - not the engine: 2.2<>2.5. - '95 is the best option - dual-port and EGR on the Auto trans models. - Use your stock SUS ECU...I'm not even sure if the anything older than '97 will plug in anyway. *There some possible 'gotchas' w/the power steering/AC/Alt brackets, but should be able to get those figured out looking on here. CAVEAT: I'm 'assuming' the SUS is just a sedan version of the '99 OB....as I did this swap on a '99 OB w/out issue. For the EJ22/EJ25 franken engine, always use a HG that matches the bore of the block. There are a couple of options w/the EJ22, but I 'think' the one to use is the 'Phase 1' '90-'98 version....I'm just not sure if it works best w/the coolant and oil passages on the EJ25D. You could look into using the Phase 2 '99-'01 EJ22, too. GL, Td Edited April 13, 2015 by wtdash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 you might also check here; http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/111-gen-1-1995-1999/248329-ej22-ej18-swap-into-ej25d-dohc-vehicle.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysn Posted April 14, 2015 Author Share Posted April 14, 2015 so what is the difference between the 90-94 ej22 and the 95 ej22? is it just the egr and the obd2 stuff? could i use a 90-94 ej22 block and heads with a 95 ej22 intake to make the swap happen and do that non egr to egr fix then? so if i want to maintain using the ej25 intake manifold i need to use the ej25 heads on the 90-94 ej22e block? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 90-94 non EGR, OBD1 and the wiring comes from the opposite side. Yep! I did this swap a few months ago on a 97 Outback. and a month before that on a buddies 96. 90-94 block with 95-99 Ej22 Intake manifold. I put it together as a single assembly in the junkyard to save the $$$. And that EGR bypass works like a charm. Just buy a brass 3/4 inch T junction from Home Depot or similar and a few hose clamps and you wont get a check engine light. This combo is great because it's dual port exhaust to match what you already have. And is a non- interference motor. And yes the Ej25 intake manifold will only fit EJ25 heads. You could build a reverse franken motor with an Ej22 block and Ej25 heads. Do a few searches on here and you'll get more of the little details. There are specific head gaskets to buy for that build. frankenmotor will give you more performance. EJ22 will give you way more reliability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) frankenmotor will give you more performance. EJ22 will give you way more reliability. A 2.2 (NON-turbo/NA) block + 2.5 Heads LOWERS compression. to around 8.5:1. Good for turbocharging, but slow off the line and less MPG. A 2.5 block + 2.2 Heads RAISES compression to over 10:1 ++. Probably requires Premium/Super Unleaded. Both depend on the thickness of the head gasket. Edited April 14, 2015 by wtdash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysn Posted April 14, 2015 Author Share Posted April 14, 2015 just a thought, i have that 99 sus (outback sedan) and i have neem seeing that there may be some difference with the way the starter bolts to the bell housing/engine, does the ej25d have the same bell housing bolt count as the 90-95 ej22? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) does the <1999> ej25d have the same bell housing bolt count as the 90-95 ej22? Hi, No....or Sort of. - ALL '99 blocks are Phase 2 w/the 8 bolts vs. the Phase 1 w/ 4 bolts. This includes the 4EAT transmissions. - The '99 EJ25D was 'hybrid' of sorts in its own right. It had the Phase 2 EJ25 block, but carried over the DOHC heads. Whereas all the '99 Forester and Impreza RS 2.5's were the EJ253 SOHC....same block (maybe different pistons??) as the '99 EJ25D. But it does NOT matter. They can still mix and match. NOTE: If you Search on here you'll find where mixing the Phase 1 Transmission w/the Phase 2 block..or vice versa (I've not done this swap)...requires drill/tapping an extra starter bolt hole. I don't recall having any issues putting a '95 EJ22 into a '99 Legacy OB (EJ25D). And remember! to remove the locating pins from one or the other....they are harder to get out once the engine is dropped in. Td Edited April 15, 2015 by wtdash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysn Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 then is this atleast a 95 ej22 with egr? https://eastidaho.craigslist.org/pts/4972112742.html the third pic in is the engine in question. ill check the heads tomorrow for dual or single port exhaust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) then is this atleast a 95 ej22 with egr? The '95 EJ22 w/EGR is the 'easiest', yes. Edited April 15, 2015 by wtdash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysn Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 does the 3rd or 4th pic on that link appear to have the egr present on the intake manifold then? is the 96 non interference as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) The one in the BACK of the truck bed (red strap) has the EGR. '96 is non-interference, but single-port. Edited April 15, 2015 by wtdash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottAust Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I swapped a 95 EJ22E into a 98 EJ25D a few months ago. Bit different in Australia bring neither had a EGR. Very easy job considering I have never swaped a engine before. There is a tread on here about it but the only things required were to swap the flex plate for the gearbox and the intake manifold wiring over. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Great price for those motors. Over the years I have encountered a couple of 96s with dual port heads in the junkyard. One is running in my buddys 99 outback still. Either I've coincidentally bumped into a lot of 96s with 95 engine swaps or there were some 96s that still had dual port heads. I'm thinking it was a transitional year kinda like 99 with both phase 1 and phase 2 motors and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysn Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 well it had a single port head so i had to get the appropriate exhaust header, how can i tell if it is a 96 or 97-99 engine from the outside without popping the valve cover to see weather it has solid or hydro valves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) I 'think' the injectors are a clue. These are the '97-98 - Gray injectors: The '92-'96 models are Red. Edited April 15, 2015 by wtdash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysn Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 I am glad you seem to be the guru of gurus when it comes to subarus, they are red so i am guessing i have a 96 single port with hydro lifters and non interference then? i picked up a timing belt and i can use all of the timing tenSioner waterpump, oil pump and timing idler Pulleys from the 25d onto the 22 long block correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) No guru certification here, just too much time on these forums. 96 single port with hydro lifters and non interference Yes...should be. i can use all of the timing tenSioner waterpump, oil pump and timing idler Pulleys from the 25d onto the 22 long block correct? Correct. Reseal the oil pump andcheck the screws on the back of it, get a new oil pump O-ring and crank seal, should probably do cam seals too, reseal rear separator plate (should upgrade to the metal plate if you have one or buy it if you don't), rear main seal is not as easy to justify...some leak most don't...if it's been sitting I'd probably do it (read up on the gotchas!). If your WP and pulleys are less than 50K than reuse. New WP (OEM metal) gasket and Tstat (Stant Xact is OK, le$$), exhaust gaskets, etc. ....look for other stuff. GL, Td Edited April 15, 2015 by wtdash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysn Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 does anyone know if a oil fill tube from a 25d will fit a 22e? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysn Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 that other motor was a 95 ej22 just non egr intake, it has low compression on the one side so ill just swap to the 96 where it is already to roll minus a oil fill tube, would anyone happen to know if a 25d oil fill tube will fit a 96 22e engine? can i pull the oil pump and water pump while reusing the seals on the pumps? they both have seriously 700 miles on them and have been on the 25d motor maybe a month before the bottom end took a crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) - Oil fill tube: Pretty sure it won't mount to your 2.2 heads properly, but doesn't mean you can't make it work - No offense but those 'gaskets' are worth replacing, considering what is required if they leak, I'd think? Did you just do the HG on the 25D? If so, how many overheats did it have? I'm doing a 'non-scientific' poll on 'overheating and rod bearing failures'. Edited April 16, 2015 by wtdash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tysn Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 i had the temp go up on me 2 times but it did not get into the red if i recall correctly, the mechanic that did the head work for me said that there was no thermostat in the car, i know the heads were done by the previous owner as there was a mls gasket on one half of the motor and one graphite type of gasket on the other half. to me it seems like they took the thermostat out to hide the headgasket issue and traded it in where i bought it. i have only had the car since feb. lol i just want my baby on the road, as the wifes suv sucks gas like its going out of style. 35 miles one way to work is starting to get expensive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 You can re-use the pumps but get new gaskets. I have a pile of EJ parts in the garage. I'll see if I can compare the two fill tubes this afternoon. If the the one from EJ25 can't fit I can send one to you for cost of shipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 +1 if you didn't know I meant gasket and O-ring - not the Water or Oil pumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Just did some playing with parts. The EJ25 oil fill tube fits fine on the block but has a different shape than the one on the EJ22. Possibly will interfere with the A/C compressor. If you're in a pinch to get driving though you could disconnect the A/C drive belt and move or remove it. Or like I said I have a few in the shop that I'll mail at cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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