1985 Wagon Gold Mining Trip Ends With 106 Mile Tow

[two85s]

Went to a gold mining claim last week with my 1985 wagon, and.....

was towed home 106 miles on a AAA flatbed. 

After two days camping, mining, and getting some gold, everything was great.  Then driving on a dirt road near the claim with a fully loaded wagon and stock "vintage" suspension, I hit a deep rut, HARD, on my passenger side.  The rut was deeper than I expected but the same elevation on both sides so it was a very intense......BANG... and I kept forward motion and speed.  It shook and banged hard enough that I thought....oooouch, that'll break something.  About a 1/2 mile later ...bang, band, bang.  Felt like I was hitting good sized rocks in the road and I could feel it in my shifter too but there were no rocks ...just a dirt road.  I got out, looked and saw fluid or something dripping into the dirt from above the rear passenger wheel and I was on a forestry road miles from the pavement.  The Subaru didn't totally fail and I was able to slowly drive to the highway, call AAA, and get towed home 106 miles....(the last 6 miles cost me $54...so the insurance paid about 10 years of dues right there).  On the way to the pavement the bang, bang, bang, was violent but not constant and got worse if I went faster than 1st gear mainly coasting-in-gear-speed... 

 

The passenger side rear axle boot was already torn and now the wagon also leans about 4 inches towards the passenger side.....Is this what is called Subie "STANCE"? ..lol.

 

1) Was the bang, bang, banging the axle failing?

2) Was the fluid dripping I observed from the rear shock obsorber being destroyed by the impact from the rut in the road?  Thanks USMB 

 

 

[Scooner]

Sorry to hear about your wagon! Then again maybe it's time for new shocks? Maybe even a lift? Haha AAA has saved me soooo many times, but now that I think about it, NEVER in a subaru...always in my Ford trucks. Go figure.

[two85s]

Thanks Scooner,

Yeah I've looked into lifting or not.  Mainly because of the limited tire selection and no "off road" tire choices for the 13 inch stock wheels, I've decided to drill some Nissan, Mazda, or other larger wheels.  Then I can get some tougher and larger tires.  I would like to avoid lifting the car, dropping differential, lengthing axles and steering, etc.  It seemss like a lot of work and I'm not as familiar with or confident about the different changes that do or don't need to be done to do a lift.  I sure do like the lifted wagons I've seen on USMB, like yours and Theloyales. 

For now I think new shocks, coils, rear axles, and drilled larger wheels is what I should be doing.  Any recommendations on coils and shocks that fit and bolt right in but are stiffer than the OEM items?  Thanks again, Aaron

[thornleyjacob]

All the damage seems to be in the rear passenger side? Shock could be blown, or worse (if the wagons had them) the torsion bar may have snapped. You said you was leaking fluids? Where at? Pictures of the rear axle and pictures of the leak would be useful.

 

Fix the issue before investing tons of money into things you wont use if the car is doomed (not within your realm of fixing).

[thornleyjacob]

Also smell the fluid - your gas filler tube is on the passenger side... so hopefully you are not leaking fuel or fumes.

[two85s]

Thornleyjacob....thanks for the input.  Definitely the rear passenger side.  The fluid was "dripping" not pouring after I nailed the rut in the road and it was enough to saturate the rear passenger wheel.  It smelled like hot brake fluid or power steering type smell to me and not a petrol/ gas smell.  Aaron

[thornleyjacob]

Well, lets hope all you did was blow the shock. Gabriel and Monroe sell replacement shocks. Jack the rear up and take that wheel off and play with the components and find out what needs to be replaced. Also if it is brake fluid - wash everything off as that spoob is corrosive and will eat paint.

[two85s]

Thanks for the input thorneyjacob!!  I'm guessing that the blown shock, if that's what it is, is one problem but the banging that was happenning is the rear axle giving up.  I knew the boot was torn but let it be.  I'll check the brake fluid reservoir today to see if it looks low or empty but in the last perios of driving I didn't notice any brakeing troubles. 

 

I've read others but mainly the write up by JesZek-Loyale 2.7 about using Toyota shocks plus Honda coils in the rear and Subaru XT shocks (Monroe) with Ford Tempo coils in the fronts as replacements for stock suspension. 

Great write up here:

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/106807-improved-shock-absorbers-and-spring-coils-on-loyales/

 

He still needed to lift the car and drop the differential bar and a few other peculiars. 

 

I am looking to econimically replace (or upgrade at the same time if possible) my suspension and get larger wheels to accommodate offroad type tires.  Thanks again, Aaron

[two85s]

If I don't do a lift and decide to stay with stock shock and coil replacements will a 15" wheel and an off-road tire fit under my car with maybe only little wheel well metal trimming perhaps.  Thanks

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

... the write up by JesZek-Loyale 2.7 ... here:

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/106807-improved-shock-absorbers-and-spring-coils-on-loyales/

...

 

I'm glad that you found useful info on my Writeup.

 

I used my Subaru "BumbleBeast" without any lift for years, with 15" wheels and 25" tires, and I only felt a slight Rub on the Front tires, during tight turns and in the Rear only when the Subie was loaded, while roading on bad roads.

 

So Yes, you can put there 15" wheels without a Lift, but you'll need to not upsize your tires beyond 25" otherwise the tires might Rub against other areas that a simple metal trimming can not solve.

 

Kind Regards.

[two85s]

JesZek thanks for the help!  Another question for you.  What about doing a suspension change similar but slighly different than what you did. 

What about this:

1) Subaru XT replacement shocks on the front with the Ford Tempo coils like you did. 

2) Toyota 4 Runner replacement shocks on the rear, like you did, but also using the Ford Tempo coils on the rear. 

 

Maybe by doing so I could achieve the stronger and stiffer support helpful with heavier loads but not have to do the 2 inch lifting and other modifications that you did.  How do you think switching the Ford Tempo replacement coils instead of the Honda coils on the rear would affect the suspension?  Thanks again very much. Aaron

[rrgrr]

My experience: The 2" lift is very simple, and so far I've had no axle problems, etc. Did not drop xmember, diff, extend linkage, or anything else. Running 26" tires on redrilled wheels (nissan). The ride is much better than stock, and on new stock spec KYB shocks, plenty stiff. Great improvement for not much work/$.

 

I did clearance the front just a touch (hammer) due to slight rub in tight turning. The only downside I've noticed is the speedo discrepancy. Would like to get the adjustable front shocks for just a little more room in the front. I do not have power steering, don't know how that might be affected.

[l75eya]

My guess is the fluid was brake fluid. Something in the drum could have broken as well causing the noise. Update with your findings!

[two85s]

Really appreciate your experience rrgrr and the input.  Thanks!!  I need to get started on this and want to like what I end up doing and buying.  My experience is limited mainly to carefully replacing stock parts when needed, routine maintenance, and not much fabrication or modification.  I am thankful to learn from others who have already done these things.  Aaron

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

JesZek thanks for the help! ...

 

You're Welcome!

 

---

 

... Another question for you. 

 

What about ... Toyota 4 Runner replacement shocks on the rear, like you did,

 

but also using the Ford Tempo coils on the rear ...

 

The Third Gen Subaru Leone (EA82) / Loyale (etc) has Wider coil springs in the Front, and Narrower Coil Springs in the Rear, so I found long years ago, that the Subaru's Rear coil springs are almost equal to the Honda Accord's Front coil spring, because Honda used Narrow Coil springs there, which is not very frequent to see.

 

As far as my understanding reaches, the Honda Accord's ones, are more than Enough for Making the Subie's suspension Stiffer, sportier and more capable to handle weight, and the Ford Tempo coil springs are too Wider, so they'll not Fit in the rear for sure.

 

You must be Aware that going too Strong or Too Weak with the Coil Springs on a Car, could make it pretty Dangerous, not only for its Passengers, but incoming traffic, you can loose control with a very rigid suspension, also with a bouncy one, in different circumstances.

 

In my own Humble opinion, you might Try the Suspension Mods I did, as they are pointed on the Writeup; and then let us Know what do you think about that.

 

Kind Regards.

[two85s]

Yes JesZek thanks....I appreciate the help.  rrgrr and you have done similar things.  rrgrr has done a 2" lift and he used "stock spec KYB shocks".  rrgrr did you replace the coils and where did you get the 2" lift?

Thanks again guys?

[rrgrr]

No, the coils were fine. Did you break a coil? I have loaded these cars (not wheeling) quite a bit and never thought the coils were insufficient, YMMV.

 

 I found the Boss kit here on the forum -it is very nice if you can find one. 

[two85s]

Hi everyone.  My wagon still sits unrepaired since the last trip for different reasons which I won't go into except that I am not an experienced mechanic so I make the job, in my mind, a lot harder than it maybe is and then I procrastinate even more.  So, here is what I found on the rear passenger side: 

1) The large rubber "bumper-stop" part is missing and the sides of the shock absorber is bent and broken where the coil rests.  2) Also I think the shock ruptured becase of the fluid that I noticed dripping out of that area right after I hit the pot hole and that hole area is saturated pretty much.

 

I want to do the swap that JesZek has detailed in his great write up and do the Toyota rear shocks with Honda coils and this will improve and replace the tired original Subaru rear suspension. 

Questions:

A) Can I take the shocks and coils off the car without removing the rear exhaust and the differential?

Can I assemble the Toyota Shocks and Honda coils while off the car and then install them directly where the originals were?

C) Do I need new mounting hardware/fasteners or will I be using the originals over or does that stuff come with the new parts?

D) Do I need a special tool to put the coil on the shock or would you recommend I took them up to a local mechanic to do that part of this job and then I will install them? 

 

JesZek you wrote: "

If you use the Honda coil springs, the rear suspension will be lifted two inches (2"), stressing the angle of the rear axles in 4WD (AWD) models only. (You might drop the rear differential a little to compensate the lift) "

 

E) How do I "drop" the rear deifferential?  Is it hard to do? Can I do the job without doing this?

F) Can I do this part of the car (the rear) and leave the front end 2" lift aspect for a later time when I do the front suspension replacing?

 

I am also going to be taking the rear axles off and at least rebooting them both.  But I think the passenger side may need rebuilding or replacing.  I already have Subaru boots and clamps to do the rebooting.  So, advice on this if needed would help to.  I was thinking of asking a mechanic on the USMB if they have two Genuine Subaru rear axles (that are the same as mine) that they could rebuild or reboot (whatever is needed to have a solid pair) and then send them to me for their price plus shipping.  I thought I could send this person my Subaru boot kits first and they could use them for the rebooting.  Any thoughts? 

Thanks for any help or feedback.  Cheers All!!  Aaron

Edited June 13, 2015 by two85s

[MrMark303]

Anderson design and fabrication. He will hook you up with what you need and answer questions. He makes lifts for the subarus. Look him up on facebook

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

...Questions:

 

A) Can I take the shocks and coils off the car without removing the rear exhaust and the differential?

 

Yes.

 

---

B) Can I assemble the Toyota Shocks and Honda coils while off the car and then install them directly where the originals were?

 

Yes.

 

---

C) Do I need new mounting hardware/fasteners or will I be using the originals over or does that stuff come with the new parts?

 

If you re-read my Writeup, you'll notice that I wrote that the 'yota Shock Absorbers has Oversized threads, when you compare them to the Subaru ones, so you must use an oversized bolt below, and open a little above, to allow enough opening.

 

---

D) Do I need a special tool to put the coil on the shock or would you recommend I took them up to a local mechanic to do that part of this job and then I will install them?

 

If you do Not have a coil spring compressor Nor experience doing that, Then I kindly suggest you to let a professional with tools, to assemble them together for you.

 

The Shock Absorber + Coil Spring completely assembled, is Known as "Strut" and is easy to manipulate, so I bet that you could install the Struts by yourself, once they are fully assembled outside the car.

 

---

E) How do I "drop" the rear deifferential? 

Is it hard to do?

Can I do the job without doing this?

 

You drop the Differencial using a metal plate.

 

Yes, you can Lift the Car without dropping the Differencial, but then your car will be wearing Axles like Crazy.

 

It is as hard as change a Battery, it depends on you: your Experience and will to learn something new.

 

---

F) Can I do this part of the car (the rear) and leave the front end 2" lift aspect for a later time when I do the front suspension replacing?

 

Yes.

 

In fact I drove my "BumbleBeast" without lifting the Front, for Years.

 

Kind Regards.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Very kindly let me tell you, without being disrespectful; that you are over-thinking this a lot; in my own humble opinion.

 

The hardest aspect of this modifications, is to obtain all the parts needed ... if you have someone to help you to assemble the New Coil Springs on the New shock absorbers, Then the install will be pretty much as a cakewalk.

 

But you must be Very Careful with those coil springs, it could be Dangerous to your Health to manipulate them without the appropriate tools nor the needed knowledge and experience.

 

Kind Regards.

[two85s]

Thanks Mr. Mark. 

JesZek, thanks for all your great help!! 

That plate for the differential: =2" thick with holes correctly drilled to act as a spacer?  I can cut my own from aluinum stock from my local metal supply shop, correct yes?

 

Or you bought that particular piece plus the 2" front pieces from SJR?

 

I'll update as I get it done.  

All the best to you!!  Aaron

[two85s]

Okay, yes I appreciate the warning for sure!!

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

Okay, yes I appreciate the warning for sure!!

 

JesZek, thanks for all your great help!!

 

You're Welcome!

 

---

That plate for the differential ... with holes correctly drilled to act as a spacer?

 

Yes.

 

---

I can cut my own from aluinum stock from my local metal supply shop, correct yes?

 

Yes, you can.

 

But I don't know the Thickness + Strength of their Aluminium.

 

Maybe you better obtain the steel reinforced one, from a Forum Member.

 

Kind Regards.

[turbosubarubrat]

Drop everything or you will go through more axles. Patrick will set you up https://www.facebook.com/ADNFAB. Go big or go home i have a 6" on my hatch i like where it sits now but i wish i went with a 8".