Options for BHG

[lstevens76]

I'm running through options.  Since Red Devil didn't seem to work I'm stuck with only a few options and need some help making a decision.

 

First, I can do the head gasket job.  The car needs TB Idlers anyways so that is option one.  But what other problems could I run into doing this?

 

Second, I could swap with a used engine from a local junkyard (about $400 for just the engine + TB, water pump, etc...)

 

Finally our local pick-a-part has quite a few engines, but there is no way to test them.  I would have to figure out options on how to check for certain things while they are in the car.  Although they have a 60 Day warranty, that doesn't include the headaches of swapping again if the engine is bad.  Those cost $230.

 

I need to do something soon and any of these are financially hard at the moment, but less expensive than driving my Durango all the time.

[montana tom]

Go for repairing the evil you have...  give it new head gaskets , you have to buy the TB, idlers & WP no matter what. This way you know when everything was changed , no surprises.  As far as  running into any problems ... anything you find probably would have needed repair no matter what option you go with. 

[lstevens76]

Well, scoring on the block I may not find in another engine, but I could possibly find in this one.  It does run decent so I think my first step is a compression test.  I'll have to pick up a gauge tomorrow and see what it looks like, that would probably be my best first step.

 

And Blue Devil actually does seem to have worked, which is why the compression test.  But I also need a new radiator.  It blew the cap off a couple times and now the cap will not sit at the fully tight position.  It has to be halfway in order for it to seat firmly.

 

My other thought was if I picked up a used one from the pick-a-part I could go through the external seals before putting it in.  Considering they are still in the car I should be able to hot wire the starter to do a compression test on it.  That should tell me if it has a blown head gasket, bad rings, etc... and hearing it spin should give me an idea of the bearings as well.

 

My initial thought, and still higher on the list, is to fix this engine though.  The problem is if I get into an engine I plan on keeping in the car long-term I want to do a lot of work to it. 

 

My thoughts have been:

 

A. )  Fix this engine and keep going (this would be seals, tb, and head gaskets).

 

B.)  buy a used engine, replace seals, tb, etc... (all externally accessible stuff not going into the engine) swap it in then start work on the old one and give myself a good amount of time to do the work.  This would let me get the heads done, investigate cam options, etc...  No I'm not looking to build a racer just a good strong engine with some decent "oomph" that still gets good gas mileage.

[ccrinc]

NEVER use a coolant additive like Blue Devil in a Subaru.  I'm not the only one who will tell you this.  Subarus are finicky about this stuff.  That stuff is now all throughout the engine coolant passages as well as the heater core and everywhere else coolant runs.

 

I know this isn't any help with your other issues, but geez...how many times do the old timers here have to say it? Don't put that "stop leak" crap (any of it) into a Subaru! EVER!

[montana tom]

What makes you think the cylinders are scored ? 

[lstevens76]

Before I put this in I was already planning on replacing the radiator and hoses no matter what option I took.  I know exactly what this does to the inside of an engine and what it takes to get it out of the engine when I go to do work on the car.

 

No, I don't like sealants but when you are short on cash and you need a solution sometimes they are worth the risk and it was to me.

 

If you don't know what you are doing and can't follow the directions "exactly" as the manufacturer describes, don't even try a sealer.  Over 80% of the people I have dealt with who have had problems with Blue Devil (specifically because bars leak and others just does nasty spoob to an engine) they didn't follow the directions.  The biggest mistake is not idling it long enough.

 

The other thing most people that use a sealer expect is a permanent fix and it to always work, which is two big myths.  It does not always work and it is not a permanent fix, I know this.  That's why I'm working on options and will be putting things in motion to get it fixed right.  I know it's going to fail, that's just the nature of the beast, I just don't know when. 

 

What Blue Devil did that nothing else could have is bought me time, which I needed, to financially be in a better position to purchase the parts and do the job right instead of rushing through it using the cheapest parts I can find.

[lstevens76]

What makes you think the cylinders are scored ? 

 

I didn't say they were, it's that I could possibly find it.  I don't know the history on this car only that he replaced the water pump because it failed.  How hot it got, how many times it got hot, etc... prior to me owning it I don't know.  

 

I also don't know how prone to scoring Subaru engines are.

Edited April 17, 2015 by lstevens76

[1 Lucky Texan]

if your engine has overheated, and/or an engine from a wreck will have substantially lower miles - that would seem to be the way to proceed to increase chances of a reliable and long-lasting solution. Junkyard engine with TB and HGs refreshed would probably be my 'vote'.

Edited April 17, 2015 by 1 Lucky Texan

[ccrinc]

Subarus are actually less prone to scoring than many people think.  I've seen blocks which have been over heated and run low on oil that cleaned up fine with just a light flex honing.

It's when ringlands crack, or rings seize or small pieces of metal get into the cylinders that the worst scoring happens.

 

That said, you really won't know until you get it apart (if you go that way), clean it and take a good look.  We have to recycle way too many blocks due to being consistently run low on oil than a once or twice type of occurence.

[lstevens76]

Ok, then next question.  What vehicles came w/ this motor?  I.E. an early '96 2.2L?  

 

Now I need to pick up a compression tester, spare battery, and grab an oil squirt can I guess.  Then  go hunting motors at the pick-a-part.

 

To add to this I think Lucky and I are thinking alike, except the head gaskets which I really don't want to do. lol

 

If this motor turns out to be in good condition than I can rebuild it the way I want it (which is going to take a lot of research) and have the time to do it.

 

If this motor turns out bad, I can always go back to the junkyard and buy a second core.

Edited April 17, 2015 by lstevens76

[lstevens76]

Ok, I know I need an EJ22E engine (unless I pick up the EJ25 on CL for $300 that includes a new TB and Head gaskets...... but it was welded in a spot so not sure).

 

I'm not sure how to differentiate (without getting back to the transmission) which motor is which as far as an EJ22E vrs an EJ22 Phase II.

 

Also, what should the compression be on an EJ22E?

 

Thanks

[ccrinc]

As a Subaru engine rebuilder, I can tell you to forget the "E" on the engine model.  It really means nothing.  Most of the letter designations were never used by Subaru and are only internet engendered references. 

You need to look for a Legacy or Impreza Outback or Outback Sport from '96 to '99.  As long as it's an EJ22, the engines are the same (except that in '97, they changed the pistons so that the engine became interferential).  You need the single port exhaust and, if your car has it, the EGR port on the back of the left head.  Otherwise, there are no differences.  There were a very few plain jane Outbacks with manual transmissions in '95-96 which also had this engine, but they were fairly rare.  Frankly, the Legacy model is going to be the easiest to find.

The actual Phase II did not come around until 1999 in the Forester and the Impreza only.  Stay away from that year and you should be good.

 

Good compression for that engine runs in the 165 psi range, but can be as low as 135 or as high as 180 and still be decent.

 

Emily

[lstevens76]

The E in the EJ22E designates EGR from what I've read and understand.  That is the only difference I can find between the EJ22 and EJ22E.  But I do need the EGR, making the task a bit harder.

 

Now you have me questioning one at a Junkyard locally though that they are saying has 195-200 compression on all cylinders............

 

On another note, since I now have (I believe) all the information I need to make a good decision and take action (TY to those in here who helped.  ) I need to come up with the parts list for the rest of it.

 

I know I need a radiator and TB/WP Kit.  Those are basically the givens.  Doing the radiator I'm going to service the transmission (it's passed due anyways and I'm going to be pulling the lines on the radiator....) so what do I need for this?  I know there is an in-transmission flat filter then fluid.  What else?

 

Here is my basic list:

 

Radiator

TB/WP Kit

Plug Wires

Plugs

PCV

Fuel Filter

Air Filter

Transmission Filter / filter kit

Transmission Fluid

Oil Filter

Oil

 

I'm also thinking coolant hoses.  I know if I do the head gaskets (either motor) I'll need the head gasket set.

 

What else should I be looking for?

Edited April 18, 2015 by lstevens76

[ccrinc]

If a junkyard engine has 195-200 compression, I'd seriously question the integrity of the facility because those figures are bullshit.  The figures I gave you are for broken in, good (used) engines.

 

Upper and lower radiator hoses (depending on the condition of your current ones) is a good idea.  NAPA is fine for those.

 

From what you've said, I assume this is an automatic trans? If so, you'll want to do the front diff fluid at the same time.  Multi-grade, not 90W gear oil in there. 

 

Cam seals and o-rings

Front and rear main seals

Replace rear breather cover with metal if it has a plastic one.

 

That should pretty much do. it.

[lstevens76]

I just did the upper/lower's but first they didn't fit worth a damn, even after cutting to fit, and the upper  got covered in coolant/blue devil due to the cap so I was t hinking of replacing those with OEM anyways since I can get the OEM's fairly cheap (few dollars more than After market).

 

I wasn't sure about the rest of the cooling hoses though, are any of them prone to failure?

 

Yes, it's an auto which is why I bought it and I'm fixing it.  I have shoulder issues and although I love a standard, I can't drive it daily without pain.

 

I read somewhere else on that breather cover (maybe on your website?) but not sure where I'm looking for that at.

 

Thanks.

[ccrinc]

Ebay for the breather cover.  Otherwise, they're pretty much a dealer-only item.   And the newer style sucks.  If you can find an aluminum one, those are the best.

 

Anything rubber on a car (hoses, belts, etc.) are all going to be prone to failure.  But the radiator hoses seem to take the brunt of the damage.  The good thing is that you can wait until you get the engine back in and see if anything's leaking and then replace.  Otherwise, if cracking/weather wear is obvious, replace it.

[Fairtax4me]

Overheating is the main killer of these engines.

Cylinder wall damage is almost never a factor on these, but rod bearing damage is. The 2.2 is not prone to rod bearing failure, unless it has been overheated multiple times. If you know that it hasn't been overheated, pop some fel-pro head gaskets on it and call it a day.

If it has been grossly overheated several times (temp needle pegged in the red and all the coolant boils out) only then would I consider a replacement engine.

 

As far as hoses go. Upper and lower radiator, and the elbow bypass hose on the side of the water pump are the ones that I always replace even if they "look good".

[lstevens76]

Ok, this engine has been hot at least 3 times I know of (by me).  First was when it blew the cap, and I didn't realize it, before I did the thermostat.  Next was when I was testing it after doing the thermostat and it blew the cap again.  Finally it got hot on my way home after doing the blew devil from blowing the cap, this is when I realized the radiator neck was the problem and it would seat the cap at the halfway point but not the full point.  I then got it hot again when I checked coolant and moved the cap just a hair to far and it popped. 

 

The difference is everytime this happened I pulled over and let it cool down before going and added water/coolant if I had it.  The engine makes no noise outside of the noisy power steering pump and skateboarding idlers.  So realistically I might be able to just do headgaskets and be ok.

 

But this is what it comes down to, peace of mind.

 

At the moment I'm on Disability working on some issues so I can get off.  My income is very limited and I have a choice of 2 vehicles to drive, the Impreza or my Durango.  Every other week I have my son and I commute 50+ miles per day on those weeks taking him to school and picking him up.  That's 250+ miles a week, closer to 300+, on those weeks.  Basically 1 full tank in either vehicle with the Impreza being 11 to 12 gallons a fill and the Durango being 20 to 23 gallons a fill (basically twice as much gas).

 

If I go test out a good used motor and pull it, put it on a stand, then order parts as I can I will be in better shape if something happens to the motor in the Impreza.  Regardless of what I have done on the used motor, if I do a full compression test and get good results I should be able to toss it in for an emergency fix if need be.

 

Plus I believe I can pull the motor with the harness and it will have the TB Covers (which I don't currently have due to PO) and it will have the camshaft sensor which would either be low mileage or hopefully replaced. The current one is causing an intermittent no-start issue.  The harness is due to a FUBAR harness mess the PO did to the alternator because it was supposedly shorting at the nut on the alternator.  He put an extension on the alternator nut to raise it and cut the harness and reconnected it to make it fit.  I could probably correct the harness, but if I can get a replacement with the motor..........

 

This also gives me the ability to go through an engine with my son and take my time doing it so he can learn, and there are some things I haven't done that I wouldn't mind learning to do but I that takes time.  If I'm rushing to do a head gasket job mistakes get made and I can't do everything I want to.

[lstevens76]

Well the options just became very limited. I had a noise I was hoping was a tensioner or water pump, but I wasn't that lucky.

 

3 Different mechanics confirmed it's the beginnings of a rod knocking. :-(

 

My choices are either rebuild this engine, pick up a used engine, or pick up a used short block.

[Fairtax4me]

Is it a knock or a tick?

Any difference when Cold? Warm?

You can remove the timing cover on the drivers side and check the tensioner through there.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Fairtax4me

[lstevens76]

Well, now I really think I might as well become a mechanic.  I pushed the car to try and make it knock harder.  It's an auto and where I got on the interstate is a steep climb so I've been pushing it hard up and down it the last two days, 6k rpm shifts, etc...

 

I couldn't make it louder.  So I asked a couple of  other people (non-mechanics).  I was told check the upper end, pre-ignition detonation, and things like this.

 

I've had a CEL for a week or two due to a P0443 (purge control solenoid) and I had one previously for a P0441, which escalated to the P0443.

 

I believe the knock is gone now, but I won't know for sure until I get the PS Pump replaced tomorrow (it's grinding loud and yes the knock was that quiet, but definitely there).

 

What I did was picked up a purge solenoid from the local pick-a-part and installed it, then cleared the code.  

 

What I believe the problem was is that the purge control solenoid was stuck open so instead of metering the flow of air from the fumes it was just an open connection letting the intake suck extra un-metered air.  All this extra air was causijng pre-ignition and as such a knock. 

 

Maybe I'm way off base, but it sure got quiter after I replaced that solenoid.

[Fairtax4me]

Detonation isn't a knock. Its more of a "clack", only when under load.

Unless the purge solenoid was open to outside air (broken vacuum/evap hose) it would pull gasoline vapor from the evap canister and fuel tank and would slightly enrich the A/F ratio, especially when driving steady, or during high vacuum condition such as during decel or at idle.

On heavy acceleration it wouldn't make any noticable difference.

 

This is a 96 right? Id bet your "knock" was a collapsed lifter. Those will come and go as they please. Normal on the 2.2 of that era.