DCor Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Hello All, Besides reading the odometer and following recommended replacements are there other signs of when a timing belt needs to be replaced? My 2000 OBW has been driven pretty hard and has dealt with the past two long cold winters! It was new-to-me in 2008, and the previous owner gave me all invoices, one which claims to have had the belt changed almost 12 years ago at 117,000 Kms. it now has 275,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocei77 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 It's time for a change. The interval is 100K or 105 months, whichever comes first. Don't wait. O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 2.5 liter? 105K miles OR 105 MONTHS, whichever comes first. belts are tough - an idler will seize or dump its bearings before the belt breaks. then you have bent valves. get the TB area serviced soon, new idlers, tensioner probably waterpump and maybe cam/crank seals. Consider having the oil pump backing plate resealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec03 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 The first guy may have had it done under the subaru HG guarantee. Do everything including the water pump and oil pump immediately. I'm surprised that the HG's arn't leaking again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 If done right, the head gaskets on these can last the life of the motor after the initial replacement. The most recommended kit is a Gates kit as it's quality is on par with Subaru but the cost is about 25% of OEM parts. Amazon has them pretty cheap. I'd also suggest doing the water pump as it's timing belt driven and only about $30 more. That's cheap peace of mind. Oil pump is not as necessary but is not a bad idea since it will be accessible and the mileage is getting high enough where it could, but is not yet likely to fail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCor Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 WOW...thanks for all the prompt, well advised replies everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 I wouldn't even care about the belt - though that is really old. The pulleys are the higher risk. There's a tensioner and 3 additional pulleys the timing belt runs across. The sprocketed pulley routinely fails (you can google search countless images/stories). Those likely weren't replaced the first time around - so those are all original and usually in low grade shape by now. I would be itching to replace all of the timing components for that reason more than the belt alone. gates kits are only $120 on amazon and make it economical and easy to replace everything - that includes the belt, 3 pulleys, and tensioner. those parts alone (no labor) are $300 - $400 from the dealer. That said your belt is old and 3 years past due based on time. The materials degrade over time, so the rubber is drier, been heat cycled, fatigued, etc. You're 3 years past due based on time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCor Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 Ok I am way more educated about my timing belt area now. The Gates kit with water pump looks great. Reading around here people are suggesting Crank & Cam seals, also the Oil Pump O-ring....is there a kit for these? Resealing the oil pump backing plate, is this a liquid gasket type of fix or is that another seal/gasket part? Lastly advised is to replace the lower TB cover seal. Are these all available off Amazon too or maybe dealer supplied only? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec03 Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Use the subaru crank and cam seals. The oil pump is normally sealed, judging from the posts on these forums, with anarobic liquid gasket, although I used the felpro paper gasket when I just did my 97. I doubt if it matters who's o ring you use. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I suggest you use Subaru OEM crank & cam seals and the oil pump O-ring too. Seal the pump to the block with anaerobic sealant or Permatex Ultra-Grey--just make a nice, even bead and don't overdo it. You don't want bits of that RTV breaking off into your oil. The oil pump backing plate does not need any "sealing." You just need to tighten up the screws holding it on--they often tend to back out. Some folks Loctite those screws. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wirelessenabled Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I used Permatex Ultra Grey to seal the oil pump. If you use it be careful not to use too much, just a very thin coat including around the bolt holes. Too much will squeeze out from the sealing surface and dry in to chunks which can cause problems if circulated in the oil system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Resealing the oil pump backing plate, is this a liquid gasket type of fix or is that another seal/gasket part?. Actually you don't reseal the backing plate - you tigthen the backing plate screws. no need to seal it. the screws just come loose - tighten them. some people lock tite the screws them tigthen them. It helps to use a really good screw driver - one that really engages and gives leverage for some good torque. My impact screwdriver is amazing at this - the bits fit tight, bite strong, and the thick handle allows good torque. You reseal the pump body itself (not the backing plate) to the block. An oring is all that's needed - oil pump oring - same oring that i think was used for like decades, should be readily available. Definitely get a Subaru water pump, the aftermarkets are lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholi2789 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 I will add my voice to the others on this thread. I have done 4 subaru timing belt jobs in the last 3 months, two of which were my cars and hadn't had them changed in over 100k miles. On both of my cars the belt seemed okay, but the pulleys were all in near failure condition. The most dead obvious sign without looking in the belt cover is if your timing cover has oil droplets on the bottom, that means your cam/crank seals are leaking and weren't done the first time around most likely. Doing the seals while your in there is only about 45 minutes extra work. I would also recommend the oil pump Re-sealing as well, 2 out of 4 of the oil pumps I checked had backing plate screws halfway out. I've ordered 2 of those Gates kits online and two kits from Mizumo auto on Ebay. They all were great and less than 130$. If your are mechanically inclined at all, do the job yourself. It's about 4-5 hours for a first timer and 2-3 for a seasoned vet. And that's replacing all pulleys and seals. The gates or Mizumo auto kits will come with the belt, all pulleys/tensioner, cam and crank seals, just do it all. It's not that much extra work and is worth it. Good luck! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCor Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 Again....Thanks a ton for all the advice! The Gates kit is on it's way now & I picked up the four seals from Subaru this morning. Will let you all know how it goes by the end of next week! DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec03 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Will let you all know how it goes by the end of next week We will be interested in your experience. But, you will never do it in 4-5 hr on an old car. There are too many things to go wrong, Examples: 1. The bolts brake off on the timing cover and you have to spend an hour figuring out how to hold them back on [ans: tie wraps]. 2. The radiator hoses clamps, hoses, or plastic radiator nozzles are destroyed in getting the hoses off [extra trips to the hardware or junk yard] 3. The crank pulley won't come off [keep tugging, it'll come] This is just a partial list. And if you don't get that leslie tool to get the seals out, you can have an interesting time with them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthguy Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 We will be interested in your experience. But, you will never do it in 4-5 hr on an old car. There are too many things to go wrong, Examples: 1. The bolts brake off on the timing cover and you have to spend an hour figuring out how to hold them back on [ans: tie wraps]. 2. The radiator hoses clamps, hoses, or plastic radiator nozzles are destroyed in getting the hoses off [extra trips to the hardware or junk yard] 3. The crank pulley won't come off [keep tugging, it'll come] This is just a partial list. And if you don't get that leslie tool to get the seals out, you can have an interesting time with them too. Good tips from mikec here. Just to help clarify, the timing belt cover bolts don't break themselves, but the plastic that holds the captive nut does, so the bolt/nut just spins. Or the tab that holds the captive nut breaks off completely. Also, I think he is referring to Lisle seal puller like this. Great tool. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCor Posted May 14, 2015 Author Share Posted May 14, 2015 (edited) Even more great advice....excellent! Got the Gates kit today, inspected it all as soon as I could get it opened up. Everything is as said by the others earlier on this page or around this forum. 2 things I did like to see.....a little tube of Loctite, and the water pump gasket is thin metal with rubber bead. It was packed with the thermostat ring underneath the plastic tray the rest of the parts were packaged in. Can't wait to get it done now. Looking like next Wed. I will now add that the instructions that came in the box were eligible! Edited May 20, 2015 by DCor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCor Posted May 22, 2015 Author Share Posted May 22, 2015 Ok, got the job done. Due to time restraints, I ended up taking it my nephew's shop. He was surprised at how little time it took him, and he came across no issues. Had the Gates kit, with water pump installed. Removed the oil pump. The back plate screws were still very tight so he didn't touch them. New oil pump O-ring, re-sealed the pump to the block, replaced the crank & cam seals. I also had him fix a noisy exhaust leak by welding the driver's side header. He did an excellent job, took him about 5 hrs. The old timing belt was cracking in many places! The pulleys and tensioner were definitely old and had worn bearings. I noticed the difference right away in the smoothness off the start and while idling at a stop. I since have changed the power steering fluid and air filter. My baby is running like 150,000kms were taken off the odometer! Taking her down the Big Boulevard (401) to Toronto tomorrow! Thanks again, everyone...I love this group!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstevens76 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Just to add something here those Timing Cover backing plates are around $50 to $100 depending on where you look and honestly well worth it. You have to realize that any fluids that can get in there have the potential to affect 2 different sensors (cam and crank). Also, some fluids are not going to be nice to that timing belt and/or idlers (water = possible rust). Then add in that dirt and debris itself can cause problems. Likelihood of this? I don't know because my problem related to fluids occurred with no TB Covers in place, but my PS Pump was leaking severely enough that I believe an improperly secured cover could have easily let enough in to mess w/ my Cam sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoebee2 Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 One more suggestion that,I don't see here,is mark everything. Get a yellow paint pen and a roll of cheap masking tape. Wrap the tape,so you have 1" or so tail and write what and where. Takes a few extra seconds but in my cas anyway it saves hours or days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iriejedi Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I'm curious if you replaced the camshaft o-ring on the front drivers side behind the seal and how the disassembling to expose this o-ring goes? Doing the same thing on a leaky engine I picked up for cheap this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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